M4 clutch rod failure leads to accident

[knightarmor]

Pics of damage?

[Kbueno]

Originally Posted by 08mojo

If fluid was indeed leaking from the car, I'd put money that it was clutch fluid (which is brake fluid, but it should be isolated from the brake circuits). That would mean your master or slave cylinder failed, and that's why you didn't have a clutch pedal--your clutch will always be engaged if the fluid leaks out.

That said, here is what I think happened: the clutch failed, you panicked and did not react fast enough. Whether or not you hit the gas, we'll never know. If you hit the brakes, you were too late--again, I think you panicked and didn't know how to react when the clutch pedal was dead.

Modern cars will go to a high idle to keep the car from stalling but it is very subtle, so perhaps that's what happened here. If engine speed increases unexpectedly, even a little bit, it's going to catch you off-guard. A minor increase in engine speed will feel like a HUGE increase when it's unexpected, especially when you are about to hit a parked car.

So how about trying to help instead of being so defensive? Post a pic of the damage. If the car accelerated hard, the damage will be more than if the car just kept moving at a high idle (or idle).

That sounds correct...engine began to lug/stall, ECU added throttle to keep engine running, but still seems much when going uphill. Maybe I missed it...was this a cold start?

[NoMoreAudi]

Car has a "black box" on it that allows information on things like seat belt, throttle, traction control, engine speed etc. Has anyone pulled this information yet?

[EOS]

Originally Posted by Kbueno

That sounds correct...engine began to lug/stall, ECU added throttle to keep engine running, but still seems much when going uphill. Maybe I missed it...was this a cold start?

Yes, cold start. And after I started it, still with clutch fully depressed, I completely dropped the clutch with no foot on the gas. Instead of dying, car shot backwards and into another vehicle. Clutch pedal was totally out of commission after I dropped it.

[EOS]

Yes, BMW NA is currently reviewing everything in great detail. Hopefully will know something more soon re the findings.

[Kbueno]

Originally Posted by EOS

Yes, cold start. And after I started it, still with clutch fully depressed, I completely dropped the clutch with no foot on the gas. Instead of dying, car shot backwards and into another vehicle. Clutch pedal was totally out of commission after I dropped it.

Ahhh, so it was in high idle (cat warming) cycle...yah I can believe it would lurch up the hill then...

[EOS]

Originally Posted by Kbueno

Ahhh, so it was in high idle (cat warming) cycle...yah I can believe it would lurch up the hill then...

Still, the engine should have and would have died had the clutch pedal been operational. Still working on isolating what precisely failed with the pedal. Will post when I get more info.

[aerostar]

Originally Posted by EOS

Still, the engine should have and would have died had the clutch pedal been operational. Still working on isolating what precisely failed with the pedal. Will post when I get more info.

Did they not tell you whether or not you were hitting the gas by now?

Should have been easy through black box.

[Patrón]

sounds like you made a mistake and crashed your car and are trying to blame a defect in the car. all of it doesn't make any sense at all. unless there was major clutch malfunction inside of the transmission, doubt you are going to get anywhere with the dealer or NA.

[EOS]

Originally Posted by aerostar

Did they not tell you whether or not you were hitting the gas by now?

Should have been easy through black box.

Nothing yet. If that determination had been made, I would have posted here immediately. I really am not attempting to deceive anyone. I realize memory is famously fallible, yet I am certain I remember this incident correctly. If it turns out the black box says otherwise, obviously the claim will be denied. I will post new info immediately as I receive it.

[doug_999]

So just to be clear here
The M3/M4 has an anti-stall feature (as many other modern cars do) to raise the RPM so that the car won't stall if you let off the clutch too fast.

I know for a fact that if I were backing out and had the clutch down and the car suddenly started going in reverse and fast, I would be taken off guard and probably/maybe wouldn't have had time to hit the brakes.

and, there is the remote chance that the brakes were NOT working.

I'm very curious to hear what comes back from this and I tell you, if BMW magically issues a recall for this, a lot of you are going to owe the OP an apology

[minn19]

Originally Posted by EOS

Nothing yet. If that determination had been made, I would have posted here immediately. I really am not attempting to deceive anyone. I realize memory is famously fallible, yet I am certain I remember this incident correctly. If it turns out the black box says otherwise, obviously the claim will be denied. I will post new info immediately as I receive it.

I don't think anybody thinks you are trying to deceive them, at least I don't FWIW.

[Ian1973]

Originally Posted by chris719

I don't think this is true. I have seen a number of reports that the F8x do have some kind of limited anti-stall mechanism, I have seen M2 owners report it also. My Mazda 3 has something like it and the revs can rise a small amount without any throttle input. Maybe it's not even anti-stall just some kind of idle control.

I'm not saying I believe this could move the car though...

I currently own a Mazda 3 and I don't think it does. If it does something it's very subtle to the point I doubt it helps much. I have certainly stalled both cars many times.

[BMR DOC]

Ive seen this situation before . Purely driver error . Customer stated he was pushing brake as hard as he could the engine revved up and he couldn't stop car . He also hit two parked cars . We put ass in leather on 6 different cars both DCT and 6MT . Not anytime could the 3 of us get the engine to over power the brakes . The park brake will not hold the car back though . Even if the " clutch rod " , i'm guessing is actually the slave cylinder push rod blew out you would still have brakes . The single reservoir brake/clutch fluid system has the clutch master feed hose port significantly higher than the lowest brake fluid level . So its designed that if you lose a clutch master or slave you will always have brakes .
You are also not getting the response you want fast because every thing you explained is looking like you are leaning towards blaming BMW . So their legal team is all over this . I can also assure you they are watching this thread like a hawk . They have people that they use for just this purpose.

[IB M]

Clutch pedal mechanical linkages failed, this renders position sensors inoperable, car starts in reverse gear because "brain" thinks clutch is depressed but it's not. Car accelerates hard in reverse because of cold start or perhaps because of some rev match sensor that is engaged in error, OP applies pedal brakes but it is too late to stop car, hand brake was only partially pulled as well.

Nothings impossible with the sensors, computer algorithms in these modern cars.

[jc05e46m3]

I demand an FBI investigation.

[jww///95]

Originally Posted by IB M

Clutch pedal mechanical linkages failed, this renders position sensors inoperable, car starts in reverse gear because "brain" thinks clutch is depressed but it's not. Car accelerates hard in reverse because of cold start or perhaps because of some rev match sensor that is engaged in error, OP applies pedal brakes but it is too late to stop car, hand brake was only partially pulled as well.

Nothings impossible with the sensors, computer algorithms in these modern cars.

+100000000

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by EOS

I assure you all I did not touch the throttle. Please, for the sake of assisting me here, work with the fact that I did not touch the throttle.

Then tell me how this might have happened.

Thanks for playing.

Ask BMW to pull the log off the black box to show that. If you weren't on the throttle at all you should be in the clear and have conclusively proven this was a series of rare and bizarre and unfortunate events

Hopefully you won't see clutch dump + 100% wide open throttle from panic in the data logs

It's easy to think something happened in the heat of that type of moment that you planned to do that didn't actually do.

Good luck

[aerostar]

Well? Surely you've heard something by now...

[RobbyMack]

OP this certainly seems like an unfortunate series of events. Hope things work out for the best, but if I'm a betting man I suspect that black box will say you mashed the gas. I had a similar situation at a stop sign accident I was in a few years ago. Swore I pressed the brakes but ended up on the gas accelerating into another car that had ran the stop sign. I was so surprised there was another car coming at me and I felt, at the time, I had pressed the brakes so hard and nothing happened. Car insurance pulled the data log and showed me the gas being applied instead. The mind does funny things under duress so I am sure you absolutely believe you were deep into the brakes and I do hope you're right. Good luck and let us know the results.

[aerostar]

Looks like OP was active yesterday.

Seeing as he hasn't posted since the 5th my money's on that he found out he hit the gas and he's too embarrassed to post it.

That or it's now in litigation.

Leaning heavily towards the embarrassed option, though.

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by aerostar

Looks like OP was active yesterday.

Seeing as he hasn't posted since the 5th my money's on that he found out he hit the gas and he's too embarrassed to post it.

That or it's now in litigation.

Leaning heavily towards the embarrassed option, though.

Was thinking same thing.