M3 ZCP 6sp vs M3 CS

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I am not sure this was ever confirmed.

The only reference I saw to that effect was a single post on this forum. But so far, I don't believe anyone has been able to corroborate this with actual BMW spring part number tables.

If you can tell me the two-letter code on the barcode sticker on your CS' springs I can tell you which PNs you have.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

I put the CS edc on my 2015 M3 and also just lowered it with swifts.

still need to put more miles on it as its been doing nothing but raining here. but on initial impression comfort mode does feel a bit more 'soft' and maybe 'bouncy' compared to stock. Its small though. Some may like that extra marshmallow feel for comfort.

I find the car feels best in sport though now with edc and swifts. sport + is almost too stiff for any road that's less than perfect.

You dont have the right dampers on your 2015 for the CS EDC tuning to work optimally.

[matty088]

Telling u. I think the cs edc in stock ZCP hardware is a down tick. I am surprised that this is a mod people like. I would have thought that the forum would have a negative view.

Alex does hundreds of cars and prefers the cs
With that said. I think the above is wrong???dampers are the same no?

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by matty088

Telling u. I think the cs edc in stock ZCP hardware is a down tick. I am surprised that this is a mod people like. I would have thought that the forum would have a negative view.

Alex does hundreds of cars and prefers the cs
With that said. I think the above is wrong???dampers are the same no?

the differences between the cars is so small its hard to pick up. even after i got the CS flash i really had to concentrate to notice a change on my otherwise stock 2015.

placebo effect is very powerful lol.

i'd like to hear from someone who was able to switch back and forth and drive the car a couple times.

[matty088]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

the differences between the cars is so small its hard to pick up. even after i got the CS flash i really had to concentrate to notice a change on my otherwise stock 2015.

placebo effect is very powerful lol.

i'd like to hear from someone who was able to switch back and forth and drive the car a couple times.

You are probably right. You do need to switch back and forth. But I have learned in life thst first impressions are almost always the right impression. My first drive, Bottom line, I wasn’t happy. It felt comfortable but I don’t own this car for comfort. I own it for on rails handling. And the ZCP was way firmer in my view. Rather than going back I think I am gonna slap in mp has. But even with thst. There is conflicting information. Some say it’s the exact spring rate as stock ZCP. There fore handling is the same. It’s purely about aesthetics. Then others say the mp has with cs edc is complete perfection.

[kyrix1st]

I've been told that M4 CS kicks in abruptly above certain rpm, like a traditional turbocharged car due to increased turbo boost. Can anyone confirm this?

[adc]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

I've been told that M4 CS kicks in abruptly above certain rpm, like a traditional turbocharged car due to increased turbo boost. Can anyone confirm this?

So I’ve had 2015, 2018 ZCP and now CS map on the 2018. The observations below should be taken with a grain of salt, because I only ever tested ZCP with CS back to back, and it had been 2 months between the 2015 and 2018.
- I recall the non ZCP being the strongest down low, and with a fat midrange, a little breathless up top
- the ZCP is the most linear, aiming to be close to NA in spirit. Due to the linearity, I think it makes excellent use of the available traction and is the least demanding to drive fast.
- the CS map I felt to have more energy in the mid range and up top. More fizzle everywhere except perhaps in the lower rev ranges. Maybe that’s just due to the greater delta to full power, I don’t know. CS map stretches the traction limits a bit more, but it pairs incredibly well with the Euro MDM.

I absolutely adore the CS map so far. I use it with Euro MDM on the street (I found the US MDM unbearable in my 2015) where it gives you enough slack to play around, and a softer intervention threshold. Go through the gears with the CS / Euro MDM on a challenging/twisty/gnarly road, and feel the car move around a bit and skip but never lose forward momentum, all in a manic rush. Exhilarating.

And everything off on track, where you can really give it the full beans and the CS map is absolutely superb.

The CS calibration should be the only one offered in this car, as it really wakes it up and gives it a more intense and rambunctious character.

[minn19]

Thanks a lot assholes. I brought my M3 in for an oil change and test drove an M4 CS.............now I’m running numbers. Damn it is that good. I love my manual though, very torn.

[adc]

Originally Posted by minn19

Thanks a lot assholes. I brought my M3 in for an oil change and test drove an M4 CS.............now I’m running numbers. Damn it is that good. I love my manual though, very torn.

Hey, that’s what we’re here for...

[Iceman1]

Surely the dampers (hardware) on the CS are different from the Base and ZCP???

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by minn19

Thanks a lot assholes. I brought my M3 in for an oil change and test drove an M4 CS.............now I’m running numbers. Damn it is that good. I love my manual though, very torn.

I was in the similar boat, test drove an M4 comp, didn't think I could afford an M4 CS, but the #'s came back surprised the heck out of me, and the test drive sealed the deal

[minn19]

Originally Posted by spool twice

I was in the similar boat, test drove an M4 comp, didn't think I could afford an M4 CS, but the #'s came back surprised the heck out of me, and the test drive sealed the deal

I wasn’t sure it was worth it. But after 25k in discounts/rebates (and 61k trade in for my 18 ZCP) it is in my garage. I miss my manual and comfort access, but it is worth the trade off. What a car!

It is the first base car I’ve bought with no extra options except for BSM paint for $550.

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by minn19

I wasn’t sure it was worth it. But after 25k in discounts/rebates (and 61k trade in for my 18 ZCP) it is in my garage. I miss my manual and comfort access, but it is worth the trade off. What a car!

It is the first base car I’ve bought with no extra options except for BSM paint for $550.

Welcome to the CS family

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

the differences between the cars is so small its hard to pick up. even after i got the CS flash i really had to concentrate to notice a change on my otherwise stock 2015.

placebo effect is very powerful lol.

i'd like to hear from someone who was able to switch back and forth and drive the car a couple times.

Your “stock 2015” does not have the same dampers as the CS, hence you won’t be able to fully leverage the benefits of the CS tune.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by matty088

You are probably right. You do need to switch back and forth. But I have learned in life thst first impressions are almost always the right impression. My first drive, Bottom line, I wasn’t happy. It felt comfortable but I don’t own this car for comfort. I own it for on rails handling. And the ZCP was way firmer in my view. Rather than going back I think I am gonna slap in mp has. But even with thst. There is conflicting information. Some say it’s the exact spring rate as stock ZCP. There fore handling is the same. It’s purely about aesthetics. Then others say the mp has with cs edc is complete perfection.

The MP-HAS is more than aesthetics.

By lowering the center of gravity, the MP-HAS reduces the amount of weight transfer during cornering which increases total grip. Further, the MP-HAS allows the car to be corner balances which gives a better balance between left and right hand turns.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

I've been told that M4 CS kicks in abruptly above certain rpm, like a traditional turbocharged car due to increased turbo boost. Can anyone confirm this?

Not the case at all. It’s actually the opposite. The torque ramps up very progressively in the lower RPM on the CS compared to my previous 2015 M4. To be honest I actually preferred the aggressive torque ramp on my old M4. It made it feel like a beast.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by minn19

I wasn’t sure it was worth it. But after 25k in discounts/rebates (and 61k trade in for my 18 ZCP) it is in my garage. I miss my manual and comfort access, but it is worth the trade off. What a car!

It is the first base car I’ve bought with no extra options except for BSM paint for $550.

Congrats bro

It is indeed quite amazing what they did to this chassis with the CS.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by adc

So I’ve had 2015, 2018 ZCP and now CS map on the 2018. The observations below should be taken with a grain of salt, because I only ever tested ZCP with CS back to back, and it had been 2 months between the 2015 and 2018.
- I recall the non ZCP being the strongest down low, and with a fat midrange, a little breathless up top
- the ZCP is the most linear, aiming to be close to NA in spirit. Due to the linearity, I think it makes excellent use of the available traction and is the least demanding to drive fast.
- the CS map I felt to have more energy in the mid range and up top. More fizzle everywhere except perhaps in the lower rev ranges. Maybe that’s just due to the greater delta to full power, I don’t know. CS map stretches the traction limits a bit more, but it pairs incredibly well with the Euro MDM.

I absolutely adore the CS map so far. I use it with Euro MDM on the street (I found the US MDM unbearable in my 2015) where it gives you enough slack to play around, and a softer intervention threshold. Go through the gears with the CS / Euro MDM on a challenging/twisty/gnarly road, and feel the car move around a bit and skip but never lose forward momentum, all in a manic rush. Exhilarating.

And everything off on track, where you can really give it the full beans and the CS map is absolutely superb.

The CS calibration should be the only one offered in this car, as it really wakes it up and gives it a more intense and rambunctious character.

You should try the CS MDM, a further step up from Euro MDM.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Congrats bro

It is indeed quite amazing what they did to this chassis with the CS.

Thanks! I'm obviously a believer, I really loved my 6MT ZCP, but this thing is something else. I don't know if it is that I haven't driven a DCT M car in years or what, but the mid range pull on the CS is significantly improved compared to my old car. The power band is much wider and more usable IMO in the CS.

I just added the MP HAS to my previous M3 ZCP and I was going to switch it over. But after a couple of hundred miles, I'm not really sure I want to anymore. I really love the set up from the factory. And the extra clearance for that beautiful CF lip. I didn't care so much about scraping my matte RFP one on the ZCP.

I still grab/touch the door handle to either lock or unlock the car, that'll take awhile to get used to the loss of the CA. And I'm going to get a small pillow for the center armrest for commuting. Other than that the loss of other creatures comforts doesn't bother me at all. This one looks perfect for the job of imitation armrest.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/2523463...BoCqEEQAvD_BwE

As good as it is, I will say it was much easier to be a believer at 79k than 104,500. I'm not sure I make the switch at even the mid 90s. That would've been a much tougher decision.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

You should try the CS MDM, a further step up from Euro MDM.

Agreed, I was messing around with it in the rain and let me do a small drift from a stop sign turning onto another street. I was really surprised (pleasantly) that it allowed that much leeway now.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Not the case at all. It's actually the opposite. The torque ramps up very progressively in the lower RPM on the CS compared to my previous 2015 M4. To be honest I actually preferred the aggressive torque ramp on my old M4. It made it feel like a beast.

This worries me as I'm about to get rid of my Non-ZCP 2016 for a ZCP 2020.

The 2016 feels like a wild animal that I've learned to control and I love that about it.

You guys are kinda making the ZCP and CS seem tame and dare I say boring down low. Having 2nd thoughts.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

This worries me as I'm about to get rid of my Non-ZCP 2016 for a ZCP 2020.

The 2016 feels like a wild animal that I've learned to control and I love that about it.

You guys are kinda making the ZCP and CS seem tame and dare I say boring down low. Having 2nd thoughts.

After (possibly a little embarrassing) having all three (Civic M3, 6MT ZCP and now CS) maybe I can help a little.

My 15 DCT M3 felt like I was on the ragged edge of control when driving hard at all times. I didn't find it fun and ultimately ended up disliking the car quite a bit in the end. MDM sucked sweaty hairy nuts and killed the fun all the time/immediately. Or maybe it kept alive so maybe I should thank it.

My 18 6MT ZCP felt quite a bit slower with a narrower power band. Sport was ok, but it needed to be in Sport+ to feel even close to my 15. Even then it still never built speed like I remembered from my 15. But, I had 2 and a 1/2 years in 500 plus horse GT350 in between them so that probably didn't help. MDM much better still a tad too intrusive.

My M4 CS test drive immediately reminded me of what a beast the 15 was, but with way better suspension/chassis characteristics. Easily the best MDM version of the three with the widest most usable power band IMO.

Not apples to apples I know, but something and no I'm never getting a GTS.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by stevehifi

ok here is the spring/swaybar info for the
M3 CS (direct from dealer) with pricing:

Swaybars:
Front – 31358011850- list 286.00

Rear – 33557853266- list 277.74

Springs:
Front – 31337847701-list 190.35

Rear – 33537847710- list 214.11

Thanks for this info. That is another indication that, as originally reported, the M3cs is more softly sprung than the M4cs.

I wonder why BMW did that...