CPO Questions

[Mineral_M3]

Bought my 2016 BMW M3 F80 Certified Pre Owned no accidents reported on car fax. During my last service I come to know from another dealer that my front bumper had been re painted. Nothing was reported on car fax. Can they certify the car like that?

[allinon72]

If it wasn't reported to insurance during the repair, it won't show up on the Carfax. Should it have been caught during the CPO inspection? Perhaps, but we're learning that the CPO certification isn't really a deep, thorough inspection of the vehicle like many expect.

[Thescout13]

It could also have been due to a dealer screw up. For example, service techs scratched the bumper deep or what have you and dealer offered to repaint for customer. Or car was scratched at the port and same thing occurred. Could be 100 things. If there was no frame damage you should be fine. Good thing about CPO is that if there was, they cover it (if it happened before you got it).

[jmg]

I think you would be surprised to hear that even new cars off the truck sometimes to be repaired due to damage occurred while in transit. CPO cars are the same way. Front bumpers are the most often repainted because of rock chips etc. When you buy a CPO car, it's best to inspect the body thoroughly for overspray, sloppy work etc especially the front bumper and driver and passenger side doors where damage occurs most often. It's not a deal breaker to have panels resprayed btw. As long as the paint matches and they do a good job. No big deal.

[Mineral_M3]

I couldn't tell neither could my service advisor but he said the body shop could tell that this bumper had been repainted. The was a scratch appearing on my front bumper and they told me it's cause of potential damage inside the bumper. I would have never known unless they told me.

[Mineral_M3]

The scratch that's forming in the inside

[2000cs]

That looks like a crack. Probably painted over it to move it along.

The answer to your question is yes, they can and they do sell cars CPO that have been in wrecks. For example, I am aware of a 2017 CPO 650iGC that the dealer disclosed had a front collision with airbags deployed before it was certified. Apparently all that matters is the repair meets some spec, and they can move it along.

I no longer trust CPO without a thorough going-over, and ideally a ppi from an independent shop.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by 2000cs

That looks like a crack. Probably painted over it to move it along.

The answer to your question is yes, they can and they do sell cars CPO that have been in wrecks. For example, I am aware of a 2017 CPO 650iGC that the dealer disclosed had a front collision with airbags deployed before it was certified. Apparently all that matters is the repair meets some spec, and they can move it along.

I no longer trust CPO without a thorough going-over, and ideally a ppi from an independent shop.

Yep, get PPI from an indy or a trusted mechanic. Pull the car fax. Lastly, thoroughly inspect the CPO certification checklist disclosure form. By law that has to be accurate or else they can be liable for fraud. I scrutinized mine when I got a CPO and the issues I identified and my mechanic buddy did too (and the dealer fixed before delivery) were notated in the report.

[Corms]

I previously had a 2013 328i that I got as a CPO in 2016 and came to find out the hood had been repainted. On top of that 1-month after getting it I had to have the front brake rotors/pads replaced because of excessive noise and the rear brake pads replaced. Come to find out the brake pads were shot and rotors warped. There was also an outstanding thermostat recall that hadn't been completed on the car. Only benefit from getting the CPO was the lower finance rate and at the time an added 2-year warranty.

I just picked up a 2015 M4 and skipped going the CPO route after that experience because it cost a few thousand extra dollars for a CPO and didn't see the value in it. I took the route of buying a non CPO BMW with solid maintenance history, no noticeable over spray, and a thorough inspection conducted.

[RickFLM4]

CPO does not mean the car was never in an accident. If you read the marketing language and review the checklists, there is nothing that prohibits certification just because a car has been in an accident. They market it like they only certify the best of the best. They create a perception they are hand picking trade ins they know because they serviced them and know the original owners and vehicle history. In reality the can pick up a car at auction and certify it unless it is the worst of the worst (can’t certify with frame or flood damage or title problem). It isn’t just BMW, it is all or most of the brands. CPO = way to sell used cars and warranties.

I also wouldn’t rely on CarFax to have a complete history. It is ok to find cars with obvious flags, but a lack of reported accidents on CarFax does not mean there were no accidents.

[mastermav]

I talked to sales adviser the other day. The dealer can CPO car if it didn't have structural damage and was properly repaired. No big deal

[elinstylez]

Apparently they can repaint the bumper to "touch up" but under CA law they're required to disclose damages when the cost to repair exceeds I think $750. I had the same issue with my 2013 328i CPO and was livid it didn't get disclosed to me - both the front and the rear bumpers were repainted and you could notice the flaking off from the cheap CA mandated water based paint... the dealer was nice and repainted again but it's still cheap, non-factory paint.

If you have a good rapport with your dealership and can articulate your concerns you could probably get the dealer to compensate you.

To answer your question, yes they can still certify it.

[2000cs]

I think when CPO came out it was no accidents, pristine vehicles only. But it has changed and now (for the last 10 years?) they just have to be repaired to standard. It is a very different program with a lot less assurance than how the program originated.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by elinstylez

Apparently they can repaint the bumper to "touch up" but under CA law they're required to disclose damages when the cost to repair exceeds I think $750. I had the same issue with my 2013 328i CPO and was livid it didn't get disclosed to me - both the front and the rear bumpers were repainted and you could notice the flaking off from the cheap CA mandated water based paint... the dealer was nice and repainted again but it's still cheap, non-factory paint.

If you have a good rapport with your dealership and can articulate your concerns you could probably get the dealer to compensate you.

To answer your question, yes they can still certify it.

That sounds like a difficult law to enforce when there are multiple owners. How do subsequent owners know what the original owner had done to the car if it wasn’t disclosed to the second owner and so on?

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by 2000cs

I think when CPO came out it was no accidents, pristine vehicles only. But it has changed and now (for the last 10 years?) they just have to be repaired to standard. It is a very different program with a lot less assurance than how the program originated.

I’m not sure what the standards were when these programs started, but over time demand grew and to meet demand, programs had to evolve into packaging used cars with no obviously awful flaws, along with warranties. I had an Audi A6 with over $20K in damage from an accident that was later sold by a dealer as a CPO. It was repaired well, but damage was significant. I don’t doubt other brands would do the same, including BMW. I have seen Porsche CPOs with accidents on CarFax.

That said, different dealers can have their own individual standards which may exceed the brand’s minimum standards. So there may be some dealers with higher standards than others. A CPO from Dealer A is not necessarily the same quality as a CPO from Dealer B. If I were buying used, I would always do a PPI even if the car is a CPO.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

That sounds like a difficult law to enforce when there are multiple owners. How do subsequent owners know what the original owner had done to the car if it wasn’t disclosed to the second owner and so on?

When you buy a car you are assigned the rights of the previous owner. If the previous owner had the owner before them commit fraud you can sue down the line but good luck with proof.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

When you buy a car you are assigned the rights of the previous owner. If the previous owner had the owner before them commit fraud you can sue down the line but good luck with proof.

Exactly. Nice in theory but good luck pursuing.

[Robotechnology]

Refinishing bumpers and replacing tires are some of the most common things performed in order to pass BMW certification standards. EXTREMELY common for dealer to have front and/or rear bumpers resprayed because of scratches from when the car was turned in off lease and it won't show up on carfax because no accident or damage report occurred.