Coby Wheel
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > BMW M3 (F80) and BMW M4 (F82) General Forum

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-03-2013, 05:40 PM   #221
Boss330
Major General
Boss330's Avatar
No_Country
1730
Rep
5,110
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper_M3 View Post
True--autocross, relatively slow class drag racing, and the like should be excluded. To be accurate, I suppose we should have entered into this conversation stating "road course car racing" although I doubt there was too much confusion, given the context of the situation.

Haha, and sorry for quoting you before the edit! I'm avoiding accomplishing actual work right now, and as a result I'm replying to some of these pretty quickly.
Yes, drag racing is a non-subject in the discussion here.
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2013, 05:58 PM   #222
Jockey
Major General
Jockey's Avatar
3548
Rep
5,003
Posts

Drives: 2024 C2S
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Park City, UT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
no lag?

i've had honest feedback from 1m coupe drivers on their site because I love that car and wanted to get into one before getting the m3....it can be minimized but the lag is still there.
Agree. A turbo car will have lag, it's the nature of the beast. But having owned numerous turbocharged cars, the 135 has had the least out of all of them. I think one of the key differences being even not in full boost, the engine still produces enough power to make up for the lack of boost. I'm sure the 1M is even better and I'm willing to bet the M3/4 will be much better.

Isn't the M3/4 coming with some sort of "anti-lag" system? I thought I remember reading about that. Of course, a true anti-lag system causes havoc on the turbos.
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2013, 06:01 PM   #223
Remonster
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
827
Rep
1,585
Posts

Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
With which sanctioning body?
As I mentioned in my post, a stock GT3 RS not only competed in the Nurburgring 24 Hours, but actually beat most of the racecars and came in 13th overall after driving 3 hours to the track, it was then driven 3 more hours right back to Weissach.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11005242...at-nurburgring

http://www.sportauto.de/news/24h-pro...n-1793219.html

I don't read German but I know there were a few modifications to the car's ABS system, it had a racing fuel cell, roll cage, and competition seats added. Carbon ceramic brakes were removed since they are not allowed in its class and it ran on different wheels.

Obviously the GT3 RS is a totally different car to the M3 and has little-to-nothing to do with this discussion, I don't really even know why I brought it up. My only point was that the M3 is a street car that can handle a few laps around a track at moderate pace before needing to cool down. It seems crazy to me to expect anything more. This was true for the E46, the E9x, and it will be true of the F80. They were never very serious track cars and to answer your question yes I have driven my previous E90 M3, 135i, and 328i on track and they were fine at 7/10s or 8/10s but anything more was asking quite a lot from a soft street car.

Last edited by Remonster; 12-03-2013 at 06:08 PM..
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2013, 06:13 PM   #224
Boss330
Major General
Boss330's Avatar
No_Country
1730
Rep
5,110
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
As I mentioned in my post, a stock GT3 RS not only competed in the Nurburgring 24 Hours, but actually beat most of the racecars and came in 13th overall after driving 3 hours to the track, it was then driven 3 more hours right back to Weissach.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11005242...at-nurburgring

http://www.sportauto.de/news/24h-pro...n-1793219.html

I don't read German but I know there were a few modifications to the car's ABS system, it had a racing fuel cell, roll cage, and competition seats added. Carbon ceramic brakes were removed since they are not allowed in its class and it ran on different wheels.
It's based on a stock car, but quite a lot of modifications had to be done before entering the race...

The rear Wheel Arches had to be modified to make room for the larger tires and the ABS had to be reprogrammed. The photos also illustrate that it wasn't just a stock car anymore... Althought it's impressive that the suspension etc seems to be stock.







Appreciate 0
      12-03-2013, 06:15 PM   #225
Boss330
Major General
Boss330's Avatar
No_Country
1730
Rep
5,110
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
Obviously the GT3 RS is a totally different car to the M3 and has little-to-nothing to do with this discussion, I don't really even know why I brought it up. My only point was that the M3 is a street car that can handle a few laps around a track at moderate pace before needing to cool down. It seems crazy to me to expect anything more. This was true for the E46, the E9x, and it will be true of the F80. They were never very serious track cars and to answer your question yes I have driven my previous E90 M3, 135i, and 328i on track and they were fine at 7/10s or 8/10s but anything more was asking quite a lot from a soft street car.
According to BMW M, the F8x will be the most track ready "standard" M3 ever.
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2013, 06:22 PM   #226
Remonster
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
827
Rep
1,585
Posts

Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
According to BMW M, the F8x will be the most track ready "standard" M3 ever.
I honestly don't doubt it after seeing those last few batches of Nürburgring test videos with the F80/F82s going buckwild. They looked very serious and very quick.
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2013, 06:50 PM   #227
solstice
Major General
5504
Rep
7,075
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

GT3 RS...

On those pictures it looks like a Scalextric car. My dad bought me one of the biggest standard sets available when I was five. Best toy I ever had and started a lifelong racing and car passion. One of the cars was a 911, it wasn't nearly the fastest but I loved that car. One day I own a real life one
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2013, 07:17 PM   #228
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21162
Rep
20,754
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
My only point was that the M3 is a street car that can handle a few laps around a track at moderate pace before needing to cool down. It seems crazy to me to expect anything more. This was true for the E46, the E9x, and it will be true of the F80. They were never very serious track cars and to answer your question yes I have driven my previous E90 M3, 135i, and 328i on track and they were fine at 7/10s or 8/10s but anything more was asking quite a lot from a soft street car.


But yes, 911 GT3RS

Last edited by CanAutM3; 12-03-2013 at 10:27 PM..
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2013, 10:12 PM   #229
Sapper_M3
Captain
Sapper_M3's Avatar
United_States
48
Rep
611
Posts

Drives: 2012 E92 M3, ZCP
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remonster View Post
As I mentioned in my post, a stock GT3 RS not only competed in the Nurburgring 24 Hours, but actually beat most of the racecars and came in 13th overall after driving 3 hours to the track, it was then driven 3 more hours right back to Weissach.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11005242...at-nurburgring

http://www.sportauto.de/news/24h-pro...n-1793219.html

I don't read German but I know there were a few modifications to the car's ABS system, it had a racing fuel cell, roll cage, and competition seats added. Carbon ceramic brakes were removed since they are not allowed in its class and it ran on different wheels.
It's based on a stock car, but quite a lot of modifications had to be done before entering the race...

The rear Wheel Arches had to be modified to make room for the larger tires and the ABS had to be reprogrammed. The photos also illustrate that it wasn't just a stock car anymore... Althought it's impressive that the suspension etc seems to be stock.







Good to have a German speaker here with us! Thanks for all the translating you've been doing for us.
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2013, 10:41 PM   #230
paddy335
Major
66
Rep
1,131
Posts

Drives: M140i;X5 40d
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Zealand

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
GT3 RS...

On those pictures it looks like a Scalextric car. My dad bought me one of the biggest standard sets available when I was five. Best toy I ever had and started a lifelong racing and car passion. One of the cars was a 911, it wasn't nearly the fastest but I loved that car. One day I own a real life one
You and me both dude
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2013, 01:02 AM   #231
pkimM3r
Banned
pkimM3r's Avatar
220
Rep
7,298
Posts

Drives: m3 saloon in granny mode.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lost angeles

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
no lag?

i've had honest feedback from 1m coupe drivers on their site because I love that car and wanted to get into one before getting the m3....it can be minimized but the lag is still there.
Agree. A turbo car will have lag, it's the nature of the beast. But having owned numerous turbocharged cars, the 135 has had the least out of all of them. I think one of the key differences being even not in full boost, the engine still produces enough power to make up for the lack of boost. I'm sure the 1M is even better and I'm willing to bet the M3/4 will be much better.

Isn't the M3/4 coming with some sort of "anti-lag" system? I thought I remember reading about that. Of course, a true anti-lag system causes havoc on the turbos.
My garage is an e90m3 and an e82 135i. Ive had an evo ix and my brother has had an evo x.

The 135i lag and lag in throttle response is HORRIBLE. Its my fiances car and even she complains about it.

The evos were different - lag was due more to boost but throttle response was much better (small ass turbos).
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2013, 06:26 PM   #232
Jockey
Major General
Jockey's Avatar
3548
Rep
5,003
Posts

Drives: 2024 C2S
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Park City, UT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
My garage is an e90m3 and an e82 135i. Ive had an evo ix and my brother has had an evo x.

The 135i lag and lag in throttle response is HORRIBLE. Its my fiances car and even she complains about it.

The evos were different - lag was due more to boost but throttle response was much better (small ass turbos).
Well throttle response is not turbo lag. I will agree that the throttle response in the 135 is not the best. Thanks BMW for the throttle-by-wire crappy programming.

On the other hand, the N54 135 does not have bad turbo lag (I'm not saying no turbo lag) thanks to the small snail turbos that hit full boost at 6 psi. It doesn't take much exhaust pressure on the turbine to spin it up. I haven't driven an N55 but I've heard the turbo lag is worst than the N54.

But yes, I feel the same way about the throttle response.
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2013, 07:14 PM   #233
pkimM3r
Banned
pkimM3r's Avatar
220
Rep
7,298
Posts

Drives: m3 saloon in granny mode.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lost angeles

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
Well throttle response is not turbo lag. I will agree that the throttle response in the 135 is not the best. Thanks BMW for the throttle-by-wire crappy programming.

On the other hand, the N54 135 does not have bad turbo lag (I'm not saying no turbo lag) thanks to the small snail turbos that hit full boost at 6 psi. It doesn't take much exhaust pressure on the turbine to spin it up. I haven't driven an N55 but I've heard the turbo lag is worst than the N54.

But yes, I feel the same way about the throttle response.
yes, the 135i we have is an n55 with dct....there is throttle lag and turbo lag so its like a double whamey to the bad....
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2013, 08:13 PM   #234
Jockey
Major General
Jockey's Avatar
3548
Rep
5,003
Posts

Drives: 2024 C2S
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Park City, UT

iTrader: (1)

You know, PPK1 fixes some of the issues that BMW introduced with their new ECU flash to fix the wastegate rattle and rough idle.

Of course, it is moderately annoying to pay for something to fix something from BMW that BMW messed up in the first place
Appreciate 0
      12-05-2013, 11:15 PM   #235
kkrBMW3
New Member
kkrBMW3's Avatar
3
Rep
7
Posts

Drives: 2013 E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Murfreesboro, Tennessee

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2013 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
Agree on both your points. Most I've gotten for short periods in the E92 is 23 mpg a 65 in 6th. A ~30% bump would be a nice bonus on trips. I know any excessive right pedal use will drop that off quickly, though.
The best I have recorded in my 2013 E92 M3 is 19.9 MPG
Appreciate 0
      12-06-2013, 01:26 AM   #236
Sapper_M3
Captain
Sapper_M3's Avatar
United_States
48
Rep
611
Posts

Drives: 2012 E92 M3, ZCP
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kkrBMW3
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
Agree on both your points. Most I've gotten for short periods in the E92 is 23 mpg a 65 in 6th. A ~30% bump would be a nice bonus on trips. I know any excessive right pedal use will drop that off quickly, though.
The best I have recorded in my 2013 E92 M3 is 19.9 MPG
What tires/wheels are you running? With my track setup (275/35/18 PSSs square) I couldn't get better than 19.9 mpg on the highway. I was always chasing that 20.0 mpg (even the closest track to me is 2.5 hours away, and I've driven as far as 9 hours away for a few trackdays).

With the stock ZCP setup though, I can get just over 22 mpg at 70 mph.
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2013, 03:16 AM   #237
Kayani_1
Lieutenant Colonel
Kayani_1's Avatar
United_States
83
Rep
1,656
Posts

Drives: BMW E92/E60
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston

iTrader: (1)

Get a tune and you can modify the stock throttle response. However, no amount will bring turbo in line with a proper high performance NA engine. Unless of course you put a electric motor with the turbo like Porsche did.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
My garage is an e90m3 and an e82 135i. Ive had an evo ix and my brother has had an evo x.

The 135i lag and lag in throttle response is HORRIBLE. Its my fiances car and even she complains about it.

The evos were different - lag was due more to boost but throttle response was much better (small ass turbos).
__________________
nickname"BAD 3",MHD E85 tune,RennArt catback non-resonated exhaust,VRSF Downpipes, VRSF 7"FMIC,VRSF stock side inlets,SSQV BOV,ECS CP,M-performance alcantara steering,retrofit M3 paddle shifters,Alpina B3 tranny flash,AFE power seal CAI,LED angels,ST Coilovers,M3 upper/lower control arms,E93 M3 Front Swaybar ,235/35/19x9 ,275/30/19x9.5. M sport bumpers, CF diffuser. When in doubt..flat out.
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2013, 11:00 AM   #238
GregW / Oregon
Commander-In-Chief
2366
Rep
9,017
Posts

Drives: 2023 M2 Coupe, 2020 GLE 450
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lake Oswego, OR

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayani_1 View Post
Get a tune and you can modify the stock throttle response. However, no amount will bring turbo in line with a proper high performance NA engine. Unless of course you put a electric motor with the turbo like Porsche did.
Or like BMW did? (i8).
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2013, 04:30 PM   #239
pkimM3r
Banned
pkimM3r's Avatar
220
Rep
7,298
Posts

Drives: m3 saloon in granny mode.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lost angeles

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayani_1
Get a tune and you can modify the stock throttle response. However, no amount will bring turbo in line with a proper high performance NA engine. Unless of course you put a electric motor with the turbo like Porsche did.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
My garage is an e90m3 and an e82 135i. Ive had an evo ix and my brother has had an evo x.

The 135i lag and lag in throttle response is HORRIBLE. Its my fiances car and even she complains about it.

The evos were different - lag was due more to boost but throttle response was much better (small ass turbos).
I know thats true but what if you dont want to modify?

I guess with the dinky turbos on the s55 with the added tech it shouldnt be that bad. But still not on par with a proper na setup.

Back in the fast and furious days i still preferred a high hp na setup than anything else and i still stick to it.
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2013, 05:04 PM   #240
nachob
Brigadier General
United_States
2349
Rep
4,347
Posts

Drives: 2004 330i ZHP, 2022 Cayman T
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: California

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
I know any excessive right pedal use will drop that off quickly, though.
Yes, 1M was the same way, great mileage if you drove it mellow but if you got into it, the mileage drops fast! that's one of the fallacies about turbo motors....the mileage is much better if you buy a sports car and drive it like a prius but if you drive it like a sports car, the mileage benefit is not as good and in the meantime you have given up amazing sound, high revving, instant throttle response for lag and "heat soak'"
Appreciate 0
      12-07-2013, 07:12 PM   #241
Kayani_1
Lieutenant Colonel
Kayani_1's Avatar
United_States
83
Rep
1,656
Posts

Drives: BMW E92/E60
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston

iTrader: (1)

The BMW i8 vs the Porsche 918 there is no comparison. The Porsche 918 is a pure race car that is street legal and BMW i8 is overly expensive excuse of what it could have been.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
Or like BMW did? (i8).
__________________
nickname"BAD 3",MHD E85 tune,RennArt catback non-resonated exhaust,VRSF Downpipes, VRSF 7"FMIC,VRSF stock side inlets,SSQV BOV,ECS CP,M-performance alcantara steering,retrofit M3 paddle shifters,Alpina B3 tranny flash,AFE power seal CAI,LED angels,ST Coilovers,M3 upper/lower control arms,E93 M3 Front Swaybar ,235/35/19x9 ,275/30/19x9.5. M sport bumpers, CF diffuser. When in doubt..flat out.
Appreciate 0
      12-09-2013, 09:59 PM   #242
Wolfinwolfsclothing
Banned
37
Rep
1,312
Posts

Drives: E92 ///M3 Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: B-roads

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
It's based on a stock car, but quite a lot of modifications had to be done before entering the race...

The rear Wheel Arches had to be modified to make room for the larger tires and the ABS had to be reprogrammed. The photos also illustrate that it wasn't just a stock car anymore... Althought it's impressive that the suspension etc seems to be stock.







The modifications made were ones that were REQUIRED to be in the race that no standard car could do without.

The fact that this near as makes no difference stock car took 13th place amongst race cars just shows how good and how over engineered that truly are. I honestly cannot think of another car that could do what the GT3 RS did.

M cars while decent at the track will never be the type of track cars even regular Porsches let alone GT cars are. They're ok for a session but will quickly show where and what they lack. They are better as street cars and the way BMW is going thats really all they're good for.
While BMW says the m3/m4 is more track ready I'm sure the caveat is having their ceramic brakes which I'm sure are pretty good but at the same time, their turbo engines leave a lot to be desired as far as cooling and ability to withstand hard use on the track.
Appreciate 0
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Tags
2014 bmw m3, 2014 bmw m3 horsepower, 2014 bmw m3 specs, 2014 bmw m4 horsepower, 2014 bmw m4 specs, 2014 m3, 2014 m3 engine, 2014 m3 forum, 2014 m3 horsepower, 2014 m3 hp, 2014 m3 specs, 2014 m3 weight, 2014 m4 engine, 2014 m4 horsepower, 2014 m4 hp, 2014 m4 specs, 2014 m4 weight, 2015 bmw m3, 2015 bmw m4, 2015 m3, 2015 m3 engine, 2015 m3 specs, 2015 m4, 2015 m4 engine, 2015 m4 hp, 2015 m4 weight, bmw f80, bmw f80 forum, bmw f80 forums, bmw f80 m3, bmw f80 m3 s55, bmw f80 m3 sedan, bmw f82, bmw f82 forum, bmw f82 forums, bmw f82 m3, bmw f82 m3 coupe, bmw f82 m3 forum, bmw f82 m4, bmw f82 m4 coupe, bmw f82 m4 s55, bmw f82 m4 video, bmw f83, bmw f83 m3, bmw f83 m4, bmw m forum, bmw m forums, bmw m3 carbon fiber roof, bmw m3 forum, bmw m3 forums, bmw m3 s55, bmw m3 s55 engine, bmw m3 yas marina blue, bmw m4, bmw m4 concept, bmw m4 concept coupe, bmw m4 coupe, bmw m4 coupe concept, bmw m4 curb weight, bmw m4 weight, f80 m3 specs, f80 m3 weight, f82 m4 specs, f82 m4 weight, m4 weight

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:22 PM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST