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      12-06-2020, 11:06 AM   #1
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Sold my 991.1 for an 18\' M3 ZCP 6MT.

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I've owned a bunch of M cars; E36, E46, E60; E39 and F83 and also couple 911's. I was looking for a new DD and really missed driving a manual transmission, so I sold my A6 and 991.1 and got the M3.

I'm really happy I got the M3. It's a blast to drive. Very entertaining and satisfying. No regrets.

My 991.1 was a great car and the PDK is an amazing transmission. I liked the PDK a lot more than I was expecting.

No doubt the 991.1 is more confidence inspiring. Especially in tight turns, but the F80 M3 6MT is a blast to drive and just much faster. Obviously, they're apples and oranges. However the M3 is definitely faster, but not nearly as buttoned down as the 991. Depending on the driver, I would expect the 991 to be quicker on the track, but it would be close. The M3 has more body roll and the rear is looser. Turn-in on the BMW has a bit more push also.

For comparison, I have a two favorite turns, a tight 90 degree right hander and a sweeping right/left exit ramp. In my 911, I could take the right hander at 38-40 mph's. Really hard dive in late, clip the corner and hard gas. Totally locked down and seated. So far I've only been able hit 37 mph in the M3. Not nearly as much confidence and much looser when getting back on the gas. Still dialing in my technique in the M3. Now on the exit ramp the M3 crushes the 911. I hit a max speed of 103 in my 911, but in the M3 I got 110 mph on the first try. My last max speed was 105 in my E60 M5.

Overall quality of a Porsche is a notch up on BMW. Especially on the interior.

Loving the M3 and really enjoying doing some minor mods.

With that said, I'm already planning on my next Pcar. I'm thinking a 991.2 4S or GTS cab. Although, I'd be happy to find an 7mt (rare) I would be perfectly fine with another PDK.
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      12-06-2020, 11:13 AM   #2
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Want to go the other way and go into a 911 991 or 992
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      12-06-2020, 11:14 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by henrylee View Post
Want to go the other way and go into a 911 991 or 992
Yeah, I think most people migrate from an M car to a 911. It's the natural progression. Having done both, I thought I would share my experience.
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      12-06-2020, 11:26 AM   #4
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Funny. I just sold my 2018 M3 ZCP 6mt along with a VO 1M and replaced them with a 991.1 GT3. First Pcar and loving it! (9,000 rpm is intoxicating!)
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      12-06-2020, 11:28 AM   #5
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Funny. I just sold my 2018 M3 ZCP 6mt along with a VO 1M and replaced them with a 991.1 GT3. First Pcar and loving it! (9,000 rpm's is intoxicating!)
Very cool. GT3 is night and day to most cars. A league of its own.
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      12-06-2020, 12:08 PM   #6
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Coming from a 991.1 C2S to F82 too. I agree the 911 is more composed and objectively faster. However, I have been enjoying the more hooligan-esque nature of the F8x platform (maybe that's also why I like my Tuono versus a faster pure sport bike).

Plus, I appreciate having a real trunk. :-)

I do miss the NA sport exhaust on the C2S. That sounded awesome!!!
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      12-06-2020, 12:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adcampo View Post
I've owned a bunch of M cars; E36, E46, E60; E39 and F83 and also couple 911's. I was looking for a new DD and really missed driving a manual transmission, so I sold my A6 and 991.1 and got the M3.

I'm really happy I got the M3. It's a blast to drive. Very entertaining and satisfying. No regrets.

My 991.1 was a great car and the PDK is an amazing transmission. I liked the PDK a lot more than I was expecting.

No doubt the 991.1 is more confidence inspiring. Especially in tight turns, but the F80 M3 6MT is a blast to drive and just much faster. Obviously, they're apples and oranges. However the M3 is definitely faster, but not nearly as buttoned down as the 991. Depending on the driver, I would expect the 991 to be quicker on the track, but it would be close. The M3 has more body roll and the rear is looser. Turn-in on the BMW has a bit more push also.

For comparison, I have a two favorite turns, a tight 90 degree right hander and a sweeping right/left exit ramp. In my 911, I could take the right hander at 38-40 mph's. Really hard dive in late, clip the corner and hard gas. Totally locked down and seated. So far I've only been able hit 37 mph in the M3. Not nearly as much confidence and much looser when getting back on the gas. Still dialing in my technique in the M3. Now on the exit ramp the M3 crushes the 911. I hit a max speed of 103 in my 911, but in the M3 I got 110 mph on the first try. My last max speed was 105 in my E60 M5.

Overall quality of a Porsche is a notch up on BMW. Especially on the interior.

Loving the M3 and really enjoying doing some minor mods.

With that said, I'm already planning on my next Pcar. I'm thinking a 991.2 4S or GTS cab. Although, I'd be happy to find an 7mt (rare) I would be perfectly fine with another PDK.
I love how you have ramps/turns where you remember the speed you maxed at I thought I was the only psycho that did that lol.
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      12-06-2020, 12:16 PM   #8
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Now take it to the track. No need for mods (only brake pads), just seat time!
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      12-06-2020, 01:57 PM   #9
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I was seriously looking at the 991.1 S in the spring/summer and then when the prices of the F80s started falling to levels where I thought were a little too low, I started cross shopping with the F80 (who doesn't love a bargain?). My goal was a fun car.

I'd agree with you on all points. The 991 felt more stable @ the limit, but I have a family and I was a little surprised at lack of space (those back seats are really for Barney the dinosaur and his friends). I initially thought with the 991 gen, since it was bigger than the 997s, it would be acceptable. I wanted to take the family out on road trips but considering the platform as a whole vs. the F80:

1) Performance: yes, but to fair, its marginal for most of us. The handling was better (I drove a PASM version). But as you said, when I test drove the F80, the power delivery just felt more instant, more brutal. Yes, the 991.1 is NA, but the F80 is just very direct on how it makes power, no subtlety about it.
2) Build Quality: better, but the 991 tech was looking dated. When I revisit this again, it will be a 991.2 or 992.
3) Utility: No, that frunk, even with the seats, to be honest, if your goal is a do it all performance car to take the family out on trips, its a solid no. I have young kids and a road trip involves a lot of luggage. But that is the allure of the 991, it feels like a go cart and is extremely capable.

So, the 911 series in reality is a dedicated 2 seater for someone who loves driving and the occasional track time (excluding the GT3 versions of course).
Road tripping is limited to 2 people in all seriousness.

It all depends on your use case. For an all road car that you can do daily chores in and yet hoon around in, F80. But, make sure you're ok with some compromises; NVH, ride comfort and the fact that if you're an idiot, this car can remind you of that mistake quickly .

I was actually very surprised at my decision. I had been so focused on getting a 911 (coming from a E46 M3). But objectively, for my needs, F80.

Congrats and welcome!
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      12-06-2020, 02:12 PM   #10
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Enjoyed the read! Thanks for sharing~!
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      12-06-2020, 03:34 PM   #11
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Thank you for the comparison!

I've been looking at the .2 GT3 market for a year, but with the summer uptick in process went with an M3 for now. I have to say I absolutely love it, much more car then I expected. I agree its not the most confidence inspiring at times, but I'm going to try some B16Ds and sway bars to see if that helps.
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      12-06-2020, 03:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irunalot View Post
Thank you for the comparison!

I've been looking at the .2 GT3 market for a year, but with the summer uptick in process went with an M3 for now. I have to say I absolutely love it, much more car then I expected. I agree its not the most confidence inspiring at times, but I'm going to try some B16Ds and sway bars to see if that helps.
B16D will help a lot. Just be prepared for a stiff ride.
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      12-06-2020, 04:47 PM   #13
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B16D will help a lot. Just be prepared for a stiff ride.
This. Comfort is not as soft as Id like and S+ is not as stiff on track as Id like. Still a decent compromise if you want to retain EDC.

Lastly, besides NTG, yall need to get the EL mid pipe or EL exhaust. I like most of you have been looking for a 911 to replace my F80, but I got the EL exhaust and that with the utility of the M3, made me want to keep the car a lot longer. Iíll get a 911 when my kids are older. My 3 year old and 6 month old unfortunately will not fit in the 991 back.
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      12-06-2020, 05:26 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by jpy1980 View Post
This. Comfort is not as soft as Id like and S+ is not as stiff on track as Id like. Still a decent compromise if you want to retain EDC.

Lastly, besides NTG, yall need to get the EL mid pipe or EL exhaust. I like most of you have been looking for a 911 to replace my F80, but I got the EL exhaust and that with the utility of the M3, made me want to keep the car a lot longer. Iíll get a 911 when my kids are older. My 3 year old and 6 month old unfortunately will not fit in the 991 back.
Off topic: did you get the EL resonated or non resonated? I'm thinking of a set for my stock setup.
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      12-06-2020, 06:10 PM   #15
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I'm planning on getting the single AA pipe. Can't wait for the improved exhaust sound.

I feel the 991 is totally drivable daily. I did it most of the spring, summer and fall. However, we have 4 other cars at my house. Great space for two with fronk space and storage behind the seats. Plus, I could get a couple of my teenage sons in the back in a pinch. It sits a little low, but totally comfortable. Suspension is better than the M. I did have SPASM, sport chrono and PSE.

Although debated often, comparing an M3 and 911 is really not a fair comparison. Both great cars, just very different.
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      12-06-2020, 07:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Off topic: did you get the EL resonated or non resonated? I'm thinking of a set for my stock setup.
I got the EL non Resonated for my AWE switchpath exhaust
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      12-06-2020, 07:46 PM   #17
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Different cars. I’ve owned many of the same. I’m keeping my M4. I almost pulled trigger on 911 4 GTS. Yet, COVID impulse. Frankly, if you want the M4 to handle similar to 911 carrera— Change out springs, change up the software a bit, throw some racier wheels, tires and maybe an exhaust. You’ll be there. Then, use part of the $50k+ you saved and go to Spa and watch an F1 race- then, Germany for a little time in the “ring”. Both great brands. Just designed for different purposes.
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      12-06-2020, 07:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adcampo View Post
I'm planning on getting the single AA pipe. Can't wait for the improved exhaust sound.

I feel the 991 is totally drivable daily. I did it most of the spring, summer and fall. However, we have 4 other cars at my house. Great space for two with fronk space and storage behind the seats. Plus, I could get a couple of my teenage sons in the back in a pinch. It sits a little low, but totally comfortable. Suspension is better than the M. I did have SPASM, sport chrono and PSE.

Although debated often, comparing an M3 and 911 is really not a fair comparison. Both great cars, just very different.
Yup, totally different cars for different use cases. I think people use them to gauge the performance chops of each brand (before we were hit with M6, M8s, etc), but you’re right, they are, at the end of the day, different cars for different uses. The M3 is a pretty good compromise for people needing 4 seats, but will never quite get the balance and agility of the 911, but then, that’s not its design intent.
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      12-06-2020, 08:59 PM   #19
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such a great read.. I too am chasing the 911 holy grail.. i think when this car is up, i may keep it for a bit until i find the perfect 997. not looking for speed obviously, looking for connection..
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      12-06-2020, 09:42 PM   #20
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such a great read.. I too am chasing the 911 holy grail.. i think when this car is up, i may keep it for a bit until i find the perfect 997. not looking for speed obviously, looking for connection..
997's have really come in to their own. Prices are on the rise. Especially a 997.2 manual. Last of the analog 911's.
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      12-07-2020, 01:15 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adcampo View Post
I've owned a bunch of M cars; E36, E46, E60; E39 and F83 and also couple 911's. I was looking for a new DD and really missed driving a manual transmission, so I sold my A6 and 991.1 and got the M3.

I'm really happy I got the M3. It's a blast to drive. Very entertaining and satisfying. No regrets.

My 991.1 was a great car and the PDK is an amazing transmission. I liked the PDK a lot more than I was expecting.

No doubt the 991.1 is more confidence inspiring. Especially in tight turns, but the F80 M3 6MT is a blast to drive and just much faster. Obviously, they're apples and oranges. However the M3 is definitely faster, but not nearly as buttoned down as the 991. Depending on the driver, I would expect the 991 to be quicker on the track, but it would be close. The M3 has more body roll and the rear is looser. Turn-in on the BMW has a bit more push also.

For comparison, I have a two favorite turns, a tight 90 degree right hander and a sweeping right/left exit ramp. In my 911, I could take the right hander at 38-40 mph's. Really hard dive in late, clip the corner and hard gas. Totally locked down and seated. So far I've only been able hit 37 mph in the M3. Not nearly as much confidence and much looser when getting back on the gas. Still dialing in my technique in the M3. Now on the exit ramp the M3 crushes the 911. I hit a max speed of 103 in my 911, but in the M3 I got 110 mph on the first try. My last max speed was 105 in my E60 M5.

Overall quality of a Porsche is a notch up on BMW. Especially on the interior.

Loving the M3 and really enjoying doing some minor mods.

With that said, I'm already planning on my next Pcar. I'm thinking a 991.2 4S or GTS cab. Although, I'd be happy to find an 7mt (rare) I would be perfectly fine with another PDK.
Thanks for sharing. I am in the market for a 911...year/spec is up in the air.

I was looking to flip in the opposite direction but it looks like I will be able to keep both.
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      12-10-2020, 09:48 PM   #22
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Your post validates how well rounded the F80 is overall. Perfect car if you can have only one; where I'd only own a 911 as second, third or eighth car

4doors, good looks, plenty fast and fun, under the radar or not depending how you set it up.
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