Detailed M4 HPDE track day review - Update - June 13/15

[GrumpyBimmerFan]

Here is one in m3 with my gf in the car( for giggles) low 8 on a public day

Ill post my vettes vids in a week or so if anyone is interested

[GrumpyBimmerFan]

Watch me catch air on the straight at 160mph...

[MaynardZed]

Damn good driving kotik. Looks like you know that track well.

[GrumpyBimmerFan]

Thanks!

[IS350]

Thanks so much for the write-up!
Curious, in regular driving, with stability control on, do you notice the ECU cut gasoline when shifting gears? I do, and I wonder if it's because the most aggressive shift option is too upsetting for the stability of the car? Or do you think it's just a tire issue, as mentioned?
Thanks!

[gthal]

Originally Posted by IS350

Thanks so much for the write-up!
Curious, in regular driving, with stability control on, do you notice the ECU cut gasoline when shifting gears? I do, and I wonder if it's because the most aggressive shift option is too upsetting for the stability of the car? Or do you think it's just a tire issue, as mentioned?
Thanks!

Yes... TC cuts in all of the time in any aggressive driving. IMO, it is all about a lot of torque and not enough tire. There are lots of discussions here around wider tires not helping with straight line acceleration as much as many people think (which I agree with) but it will help accelerating out of a corner. Also, tire rubber compound makes a big difference so a tire like a Yoko AD-08 in stock sizes likely will also be a benefit.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by IS350

Thanks so much for the write-up!
Curious, in regular driving, with stability control on, do you notice the ECU cut gasoline when shifting gears? I do, and I wonder if it's because the most aggressive shift option is too upsetting for the stability of the car? Or do you think it's just a tire issue, as mentioned?
Thanks!

I come to a similar conclusion. S3 is too aggressive for DSC or MDM where it cuts power on every shift. When using MDM I keep DCT in S1 or S2. If I want to use S3, I turn DSC/MDM off. Note that the car can take S3 shifts without getting upset. It is only with S3 and DSC off than you can really feel the full power of this car . Be wary though, you might need quick hands to catch it .

[S65V8]

is this TC issue still an issue with Euro MDM coded?

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by SROC5

is this TC issue still an issue with Euro MDM coded?

Depends on what you mean. This is pretty much the definitive thread post on what/when Euro MDM interferes:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...3#post13729043

Bottom line is, if you don't want the nanny stepping in to spoil the fun, you gotta turn that stuff off. I find the steering in the E93 M3 to be plenty quick enough to catch the rear, even with the nannies fully off. Yes, the car can get away from you if you're careless, but overall, I find this car really easy to drive loosely.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Depends on what you mean. This is pretty much the definitive thread post on what/when Euro MDM interferes:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...3#post13729043

Bottom line is, if you don't want the nanny stepping in to spoil the fun, you gotta turn that stuff off. I find the steering in the E93 M3 to be plenty quick enough to catch the rear, even with the nannies fully off. Yes, the car can get away from you if you're careless, but overall, I find this car really easy to drive loosely.

This thread is about the F8X though. We don't yet have much data that shows difference between US and Euro MDM on the F8X (although I am sure there is ). All I know is that US MDM is crazy intrusive on the F8X .

[Stilakazam]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

This thread is about the F8X though. We don't yet have much data that shows difference between US and Euro MDM on the F8X (although I am sure there is ). All I know is that US MDM is crazy intrusive on the F8X .

I think there are some info in this thread that talk about Euro MDM coding:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1061243

Here's an excerpt from what a poster (post 21) said comparing the differences:

With MDM on.. you can get some tire slip... the tires might spin up a little.. the TC light will flash and keep the tires from lighting up totally..
If you try to turn sharply then once the car gets past ( i am guessing heree).. say.. 25 degree slip angle then it will start braking a wheel and retarding the throttle.
The end result is youcan take off pretty fast... really can't do a total burnout.. and you really won't spin the car.

With euro MDM you can do the same thing and the car will not take action as quickly. The TC light will not come on as quiickly.. when it does.. it does not intervene near as harshly. You WILL light the tires up under acceleration...... almost in the same was as if DSC is off. the car will definitely rotate before any intervention occurs... Let's assume that the car can now get up to 40 percent angle from going straight. This can easily mean the driver can get over their head and by the time they get their foot out of the throttle the car is already too far sideways to catch and the owner could wreck the car or at the least end up having rotated too far to save and end up in an embarrasing 180 degree rotation.

Hopefully this helps a bit.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Stilakazam

I think there are some info in this thread that talk about Euro MDM coding:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1061243

Here's an excerpt from what a poster (post 21) said comparing the differences:



Hopefully this helps a bit.

This is an old thread you replied to. I coded Euro MDM on my M4 since. I can attest that Euro MDM is much more permissive than the US MDM. Pretty much what I expected based on my E92 experience.

I tried it on both a dry and wet track.

I still find Euro MDM too intrusive to fully exploit the chassis on a dry track (especially since I run a square tire setup), but at least it does not cut power on upshifts or when the car get a little light. On a dry track, I still prefer DSC off.

On a wet track, I do very much like the safety net that Euro MDM provides. You still get plenty of slip angle where the US MDM would just cut your balls off. I am too chicken to go 10/10th in the wet, so Euro MDM is just perfect for me in wet conditions.

Further, I also find Euro MDM just perfect for street driving as it does not cut power as much on acceleration but remains present as a safety net for unforeseen situations. I am now much less tempted to turn DSC off on the street.

[Stilakazam]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

This is an old thread you replied to. I coded Euro MDM on my M4 since. I can attest that Euro MDM is much more permissive than the US MDM. Pretty much what I expected based on my E92 experience.

I tried it on both a dry and wet track.

I still find Euro MDM too intrusive to fully exploit the chassis on a dry track (especially since I run a square tire setup), but at least it does not cut power on upshifts or when the car get a little light. On a dry track, I still prefer DSC off.

On a wet track, I do very much like the safety net that Euro MDM provides. You still get plenty of slip angle where the US MDM would just cut your balls off. I am too chicken to go 10/10th in the wet, so Euro MDM is just perfect for me in wet conditions.

Further, I also find Euro MDM just perfect for street driving as it does not cut power as much on acceleration but remains present as a safety net for unforeseen situations. I am now much less tempted to turn DSC off on the street.

Holy crap you're right. I have to look at the darned dates. Was redirected to this thread from another current thread and got confused. Good to know that it's good for street as I have been contemplating coding after break in.

I did find US MDM pretty intrusive and was doing DSC off to get the feel.

[gthal]

Update...

Spent the day at the track today and thought I would provide an update on my original thread.

The day started off with rain... a down pour really. It stopped raining by the time I had my first session but the track was wet. By my second session, the sun was out and the track was dry. Warm day at about 81F.

Car is still stock other than SRF fluid and Carbotech XP12/10 pads. Ran the PSS today as I decided to kill them before I buy something else that is more track focused.

My run group is the "red" or advanced group... one below instructors. It included a Cayman GTS, a 911 Turbo, another M4, a Boss 302, a 9114S and a 911S. Probably some others I'm forgetting.

My random thoughts...

1. I am more and more impressed by this car at the track. It really takes a day or two on the track to get the feel for this car and begin to harness its potential.
2. The car is really fast... really fast. Gobs and gobs of power.
3. Great balance and control. The car feels very planted all of the time and is really predictable. Once you get a sense of the torque and throttle modulation, it is an easy car to drive at a very fast and very consistent pace.
4. Turn-in on this car is very good. Rear end grip for acceleration, less so. My PSS are now officially toast (well, they will be after tomorrow's sessions) and I am replacing them with RE-11 in a 255/285 size on the OEM wheels for now. That should help given the RE-11 has a stiffer sidewall, grippier compound and doesn't get as greasy as the PSS. I decided not to go to a dedicated track tire until I trade this car in for a M4 ZCP and then I'll end up with track wheels and r compound tires.
5. The PSS did better today than my last session. I ran a slightly lower hot temp at around 35PSI and they seemed to hold up well. However, they don't last long at the track... PSS just aren't a good track tire.
6. Brakes worked well with the Carbotech. Squealed like crazy even on the track but stopped well without fade. This car only needs fluid and pads to be track ready from a braking perspective.
7. This car rewards smoothness... steering input, throttle modulation, etc. The smoother you are, the faster you go. This is generally true of most cars but I find it to be particularly important with the M4.
8. I had a friend who races cars drive the M4 (he drove it and also drove in it with me driving) and he was very impressed. He has a 911 now, a Lotus Elise previously and races an E36 M3. He commented a lot on the stability of the car, the significant grip it has and the speed it can carry into corners and the power... right out of the box.
9. The M4 is a fast car at the track and can carry a lot of speed(I think I mentioned that ). I was pretty much the fastest car in the group... yes, somewhat driver skill dependant, but this was the most advanced group at the event with most people having 6+ years experience. All pretty capable drivers.
10. I'm very, very happy with this car as a DD and 8-10 day/year track car... it would be tough, IMO, to do much better overall.

Here is a picture of me and a SO/SO M4. After seeing the other M4 today in both overcast and sunny skies, I think the SO/SO combo is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen... it will definitely be my next color combo (and my 7 year old likes it the best too ).



Excited for tomorrow

[evanescent03]

I may have missed it, but what is your impression of the car's power and entry speed capability?

glad to hear you have been having such a blast this weekend! I absolutely love this car on the track. so much fun. I don't have loads of experience by the car shines when being pushed but is gentle enough that I can have fun and not crash.... knock on wood*

seeing some of the photos of guys literally shredding the outer tread off their PSS convinced me that I needed a track wheel setup with NT01s. bliss. If you were to buy a track setup now, couldn't you just keep it for the ZCP?

SO is a cool color, but my wife hates it so I'm stuck with alpine white. haha. AW looks quite good too and I'm convicted there's not a bad color in the lineup.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

seeing some of the photos of guys literally shredding the outer tread off their PSS convinced me that I needed a track wheel setup with NT01s. bliss. If you were to buy a track setup now, couldn't you just keep it for the ZCP?

I could do a track set up now and then keep it for the ZCP car for sure. Not knowing what the ZCP will look like, I decided to just wait for now. Say, for example, the ZCP comes with wider wheels and Sport Cup tires Yes, I know that won't happen but I decided I'll wait to see what ZCP offers and also wanting to wait for Apex to offer a different set up than what they currently offer (wider rear, for example).

[nicknaz]

Were 911 truly type 911 or a newer vintage?

[gthal]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Were 911 truly type 911 or a newer vintage?

They were 997's.