A track replacement for my M4

M3 Number 86 · 07-25-2016, 09:53 AM

Cayman with 3.8l swap.

Bgb motorsports.

DieGrüneHölle · 07-25-2016, 11:35 AM

For a future track car build I've got my eye on used 6th gen Camaro's. LT1 Vette engine and world class alpha chassis. It has a lot of potential, out of the box they already right there with a M4. More reliable and cheaper to maintain.

MaynardZed · 07-25-2016, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

Cayman with 3.8l swap.

Bgb motorsports.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blipit_

For a future track car build I've got my eye on used 6th gen Camaro's. LT1 Vette engine and world class alpha chassis. It has a lot of potential, out of the box they already right there with a M4. More reliable and cheaper to maintain.

$30K or less for these?

Maybe in a year or two on the Camaro, but isn't the Cayman swap like $30K for just the engine?

M3 Number 86 · 07-25-2016, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

$30K or less for these?

Maybe in a year or two on the Camaro, but isn't the Cayman swap like $30K for just the engine?

didn't see the 30k part

but you can get rid of the M4, get a 3.8cayman, and get......a ford c-max hybrid?

hellrotm · 07-25-2016, 04:33 PM

I see you mentioned Boss 302. Why not a new GT since they finally got rear independent suspension? 2015's are under $30k. Really good aftermarket support.

Gearhead999s · 07-25-2016, 04:47 PM

http://www.racingjunk.com/GT/1827379...Track-day.html

RacrX · 07-25-2016, 07:09 PM

So I think it's coming down to these choices:

2013-newer modified FRS - Pros: start with a nearly new, inexpensive car, build as time and money allow, lots of aftermarket parts, could be a fun build. Cons: more mods mean more potential for failures (as found on some YT videos for this car), car is pretty low-powered until the FI goes in which will probably be last, not 100% into the "Fast & Furious" style.

2007-2009 Porsche Cayman S - Pros: stating with a fantastic machine all around, wouldn't need a ton of mods, engine sounds like a Swiss watch. Cons: Older German car will need more maintenance, potentially more expensive to keep up with higher mileage wear, Porsche parts not the cheapest for mods or maintenance, oldest interior & tech of the options (not a huge deal but worth noting).

C6 Z06 or modified coupe - Pros: Awesome V8 sound and power, wouldn't need a ton of mods, not crazy expensive to maintain. Cons: Not many except starting price is probably the highest of the group (not sub-30k for the Z06). Not sure how handling compares to the rest of the list.

2012-2013 TTS - A new entry on the consideration list. Pros: Awesome handling with Quattro (handling a definite priority over a supercar 0-60), nice dual clutch system, amazing to drive any day aside from track day. Cons: not the most masculine of the group, not sure about serious track performance, on the more expensive side to maintain.

2013 Mustang Boss 302 - Been on and off the list for a while. Pros: Awesome sound and power, highly reviewed handling and all-around performance. Cons: Cheap Mustang construction and feel for the higher cost of the contenders (not sub-30k), hard to get excited about it for some reason, but nothing rational.

2005-2006 Lotus Elise - Had one before, would consider one again, seen a few with FI that are interesting. Pros: A great track experience and great heritage car. Cons: A pain to get in and out of, not a great drive off the track unless you have a lot of open road (I don't), feels like the least safe car to be in at a HPDE- a consideration.

nicknaz · 07-25-2016, 10:22 PM

Hi, I would get a miata over BRZ personally, and 987.2 instead of 987.1

By the way, what are you trying to do with this? Just have some fun, or will you be getting a data logger / building up to got W2W, etc ?

MaynardZed · 07-25-2016, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Hi, I would get a miata over BRZ personally, and 987.2 instead of 987.1

By the way, what are you trying to do with this? Just have some fun, or will you be getting a data logger / building up to got W2W, etc ?

I agree with the Miata over BRZ. If i'm going to go slowish around a track, I don't want to pay a lot for a car to do it. You can by a nice Miata for $10K and they are a lot more common / have a lot of support.

Of course, we don't always know what we end up doing at the track, but a good question nevertheless. OP doesn't have truck / trailer so that pretty much rules out W2W.

SYT_Shadow · 07-26-2016, 08:15 AM

A TTS? You know that's a FWD based car with a Haldex thrown in for good measure which only sends traction to the rear when the fronts slip?

RacrX · 07-26-2016, 09:28 AM

Did not know that about the TTS- it's off the list then.

This thread has gotten me thinking about what I want in the car:

I'll be using it for HPDEs on the track but not W2W. I'd like it to us it to improve improve my skills for W2W one day, but this isn't that car. Tracks will be the "Roval" at Auto Club Speedway, Chuckwalla, Willow Springs. Some high speed straights, some technical.

I need to be able to drive the car to the track. I may switch wheels and pads there, but that would be the extent of it.

I will likely not put a cage in the car. Maybe a real seat and harness.

Nimble handling is more important to me than high HP numbers or straight-line 0-60, although speed is not that distant of a second. I want it to corner like it's on rails, not interested in drifting (and I'm not that good at it yet).

It has to be a RWD or AWD car. No Honda Civics or anything like it.

I'd like to be able to modify engine, suspension, brakes and aero. I would rather not HAVE to do all of those things if I don't want to, or be able to do them slowly over time and still have an enjoyable track car int he meantime. The FRS was somewhat of an exception because the total cost was so low.

I do like to feel like I'm in a car that was made for the track- the feel, the sound, the whole package. I wouldn't mind using it as a weekend driver as well, but the track will come first.

I'm thinking that narrows me down to the C6 and Cayman S...

Gearhead999s · 07-26-2016, 09:33 AM

BRZ"s have the Subaru engine which usually have oiling problems when you put sticky tires on them.A friend on mine had a supercharged one that ate ignition coils and I think he was on his third engine due to the oiling issues even with a pressure oiling system that he installed after the 1st engine failure.

However an FRS with an LS3 or LS7 makes more sense to me!

http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8275

RacrX · 07-27-2016, 04:42 PM

Narrowing down the list:

2009 Porsche Cayman S

2008 C6 Z06 or Z51 coupe

2006 Lotus Exige

Drive4Fun · 07-27-2016, 05:05 PM

I cast my vote for the Z06. Very capable in basically stock form and just about any part you need can be found at your local autozone.

bd307 · 07-27-2016, 06:19 PM

z06 or miata would be my vote based on what you described.

Did you research the cost to upkeep the cayman on track?

RacrX · 07-27-2016, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bd307

z06 or miata would be my vote based on what you described.

Did you research the cost to upkeep the cayman on track?

Not yet...assuming it's more than the Vette though.

MaynardZed · 07-27-2016, 08:58 PM

"Nimble handling is more important to me than high HP numbers or straight-line 0-60, although speed is not that distant of a second. I want it to corner like it's on rails, not interested in drifting (and I'm not that good at it yet)."

I'd vote for a Vette also, but you do have to drift them a little bit eventually if you want to get very fast in one. The Cayman and Lotus will get you closer to that "go-cart" feel you seem to be describing. Heck, spend $5K on a proper race suspension for an E36 M3 and it will absolutely handle like its on rails and would be a great, cheap car to develop you skills while you build it out. Just food for thought. A stock E36 M3 is the platform I decided on 4 years ago and I couldn't be happier. Now it's pretty much a race car and I'm having a blast doing some W2W racing with it.

nicknaz · 07-28-2016, 12:11 AM

hard to argue with C6Z

d k · 07-28-2016, 04:24 PM

Any track event I have ever been to, has always had more Corvettes and Miatas than any other cars.
Porsches and M3's are next, however.

RacrX · 08-02-2016, 03:57 PM

So I test drove a C6Z recently- I was surprised at how numb the driving experience was. It's fast as heck, yes, handles well, but there was very little feedback from the steering and throttle, it just wasn't doing it for me.

Came close to buying an Exige but can't stand the thought of having to do gymnastics to get in and out of the car all the time.

Test drove a Cayman S, and that seemed to be the sweet spot. On the hunt for one right now.

Reach · 08-02-2016, 05:11 PM

RacrX don't give up on the Lotus. Just done the deed myself and it's quite fun. We'll see if it still holds my attention in a year.

First mods will include low race seats and a quick disconnect wheel to improve driving position and cut down on the gymnastics. Right now I stand upright in the car and then sit down, and reverse the process to get out. I cannot swing my legs over the sill otherwise, I'm too long.

I'll be keeping the M3, I still love her dearly. I might have to go big power / drag strip mode with it if I won't be tracking it as much.

RacrX · 08-03-2016, 06:41 AM

That is a beautiful car. Is the rear clam hinged on yours? I've never seen one up like that.

I used to use the soft top on my Elise and just roll it back to get in easier. This one is an Exige, so the hard top is meant to stay on, makes it harder to get in. Removable wheel is a good idea though.

07-25-2016, 09:53 AM	#23
M3 Number 86 Major General 3221 Rep 6,218 Posts Drives: black m3 Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: pasadena iTrader: (1)	Cayman with 3.8l swap. Bgb motorsports. __________________ dadmobile IG: @M3number86 youtube: track vids
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07-25-2016, 11:35 AM	#24
DieGrüneHölle Colonel 1309 Rep 2,787 Posts Drives: M Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: bmw iTrader: (0)	For a future track car build I've got my eye on used 6th gen Camaro's. LT1 Vette engine and world class alpha chassis. It has a lot of potential, out of the box they already right there with a M4. More reliable and cheaper to maintain.
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07-25-2016, 04:33 PM	#27
hellrotm Banned 4143 Rep 6,926 Posts Drives: F80 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: ...Location...Location iTrader: (0)	I see you mentioned Boss 302. Why not a new GT since they finally got rear independent suspension? 2015's are under $30k. Really good aftermarket support. Last edited by hellrotm; 07-25-2016 at 04:43 PM..
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07-25-2016, 04:47 PM	#28
Gearhead999s Major General 817 Rep 7,887 Posts Drives: RR Velar R=Dynamic M2C R1200GS Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	http://www.racingjunk.com/GT/1827379...Track-day.html Last edited by Gearhead999s; 07-25-2016 at 05:07 PM..
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07-25-2016, 07:09 PM	#29
RacrX Second Lieutenant 62 Rep 290 Posts Drives: 2014 335i Msport Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (0)	So I think it's coming down to these choices: 2013-newer modified FRS - Pros: start with a nearly new, inexpensive car, build as time and money allow, lots of aftermarket parts, could be a fun build. Cons: more mods mean more potential for failures (as found on some YT videos for this car), car is pretty low-powered until the FI goes in which will probably be last, not 100% into the "Fast & Furious" style. 2007-2009 Porsche Cayman S - Pros: stating with a fantastic machine all around, wouldn't need a ton of mods, engine sounds like a Swiss watch. Cons: Older German car will need more maintenance, potentially more expensive to keep up with higher mileage wear, Porsche parts not the cheapest for mods or maintenance, oldest interior & tech of the options (not a huge deal but worth noting). C6 Z06 or modified coupe - Pros: Awesome V8 sound and power, wouldn't need a ton of mods, not crazy expensive to maintain. Cons: Not many except starting price is probably the highest of the group (not sub-30k for the Z06). Not sure how handling compares to the rest of the list. 2012-2013 TTS - A new entry on the consideration list. Pros: Awesome handling with Quattro (handling a definite priority over a supercar 0-60), nice dual clutch system, amazing to drive any day aside from track day. Cons: not the most masculine of the group, not sure about serious track performance, on the more expensive side to maintain. 2013 Mustang Boss 302 - Been on and off the list for a while. Pros: Awesome sound and power, highly reviewed handling and all-around performance. Cons: Cheap Mustang construction and feel for the higher cost of the contenders (not sub-30k), hard to get excited about it for some reason, but nothing rational. 2005-2006 Lotus Elise - Had one before, would consider one again, seen a few with FI that are interesting. Pros: A great track experience and great heritage car. Cons: A pain to get in and out of, not a great drive off the track unless you have a lot of open road (I don't), feels like the least safe car to be in at a HPDE- a consideration.
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07-25-2016, 10:22 PM	#30
nicknaz Lieutenant General 3187 Rep 10,509 Posts Drives: C6Z Join Date: May 2008 Location: NorCal iTrader: (0)	Hi, I would get a miata over BRZ personally, and 987.2 instead of 987.1 By the way, what are you trying to do with this? Just have some fun, or will you be getting a data logger / building up to got W2W, etc ?
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07-26-2016, 08:15 AM	#32
SYT_Shadow ///M Powered for Life 11489 Rep 10,329 Posts Drives: E90M/E92M/M4GTS/M4GT4/X5M Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Greenwich, CT iTrader: (2)	A TTS? You know that's a FWD based car with a Haldex thrown in for good measure which only sends traction to the rear when the fronts slip?
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07-26-2016, 09:28 AM	#33
RacrX Second Lieutenant 62 Rep 290 Posts Drives: 2014 335i Msport Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (0)	Did not know that about the TTS- it's off the list then. This thread has gotten me thinking about what I want in the car: I'll be using it for HPDEs on the track but not W2W. I'd like it to us it to improve improve my skills for W2W one day, but this isn't that car. Tracks will be the "Roval" at Auto Club Speedway, Chuckwalla, Willow Springs. Some high speed straights, some technical. I need to be able to drive the car to the track. I may switch wheels and pads there, but that would be the extent of it. I will likely not put a cage in the car. Maybe a real seat and harness. Nimble handling is more important to me than high HP numbers or straight-line 0-60, although speed is not that distant of a second. I want it to corner like it's on rails, not interested in drifting (and I'm not that good at it yet). It has to be a RWD or AWD car. No Honda Civics or anything like it. I'd like to be able to modify engine, suspension, brakes and aero. I would rather not HAVE to do all of those things if I don't want to, or be able to do them slowly over time and still have an enjoyable track car int he meantime. The FRS was somewhat of an exception because the total cost was so low. I do like to feel like I'm in a car that was made for the track- the feel, the sound, the whole package. I wouldn't mind using it as a weekend driver as well, but the track will come first. I'm thinking that narrows me down to the C6 and Cayman S...
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07-26-2016, 09:33 AM	#34
Gearhead999s Major General 817 Rep 7,887 Posts Drives: RR Velar R=Dynamic M2C R1200GS Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	BRZ"s have the Subaru engine which usually have oiling problems when you put sticky tires on them.A friend on mine had a supercharged one that ate ignition coils and I think he was on his third engine due to the oiling issues even with a pressure oiling system that he installed after the 1st engine failure. However an FRS with an LS3 or LS7 makes more sense to me! http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8275
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07-27-2016, 04:42 PM	#35
RacrX Second Lieutenant 62 Rep 290 Posts Drives: 2014 335i Msport Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (0)	Narrowing down the list: 2009 Porsche Cayman S 2008 C6 Z06 or Z51 coupe 2006 Lotus Exige
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07-27-2016, 05:05 PM	#36
Drive4Fun Private First Class 57 Rep 146 Posts Drives: MW BMW M4 Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Southeast Louisiana iTrader: (0)	I cast my vote for the Z06. Very capable in basically stock form and just about any part you need can be found at your local autozone.
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07-27-2016, 06:19 PM	#37
bd307 Chef 927 Rep 1,059 Posts Drives: Things with wheels or no wheel Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Area 51 iTrader: (0)	z06 or miata would be my vote based on what you described. Did you research the cost to upkeep the cayman on track?
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07-27-2016, 08:58 PM	#39
MaynardZed Lieutenant Colonel 1231 Rep 1,789 Posts Drives: wife crazy Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Phoenix iTrader: (0) Garage List 2019 Ford Raptor [0.00] 2016 Porsche 991.1 ... [0.00] 1987 Chevy Camaro I ... [0.00] 1972 Chevy Corvette [0.00] 1999 BMW M3 race car [0.00]	"Nimble handling is more important to me than high HP numbers or straight-line 0-60, although speed is not that distant of a second. I want it to corner like it's on rails, not interested in drifting (and I'm not that good at it yet)." I'd vote for a Vette also, but you do have to drift them a little bit eventually if you want to get very fast in one. The Cayman and Lotus will get you closer to that "go-cart" feel you seem to be describing. Heck, spend $5K on a proper race suspension for an E36 M3 and it will absolutely handle like its on rails and would be a great, cheap car to develop you skills while you build it out. Just food for thought. A stock E36 M3 is the platform I decided on 4 years ago and I couldn't be happier. Now it's pretty much a race car and I'm having a blast doing some W2W racing with it. __________________ Road course laptimes for BMW M4 2015 6MT WHP East Track: 1:04.880, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:54.352 Road course laptimes for Porsche 911 991.1 GTS 7MT WHP East Track: 1:02.770, Arizona Motorsports Park: 1:48.889
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07-28-2016, 12:11 AM	#40
nicknaz Lieutenant General 3187 Rep 10,509 Posts Drives: C6Z Join Date: May 2008 Location: NorCal iTrader: (0)	hard to argue with C6Z
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07-28-2016, 04:24 PM	#41
d k Second Lieutenant 47 Rep 210 Posts Drives: BMWless for few weeks Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0)	Any track event I have ever been to, has always had more Corvettes and Miatas than any other cars. Porsches and M3's are next, however.
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08-02-2016, 03:57 PM	#42
RacrX Second Lieutenant 62 Rep 290 Posts Drives: 2014 335i Msport Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (0)	So I test drove a C6Z recently- I was surprised at how numb the driving experience was. It's fast as heck, yes, handles well, but there was very little feedback from the steering and throttle, it just wasn't doing it for me. Came close to buying an Exige but can't stand the thought of having to do gymnastics to get in and out of the car all the time. Test drove a Cayman S, and that seemed to be the sweet spot. On the hunt for one right now.
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08-02-2016, 05:11 PM	#43
Reach gone baby gone 382 Rep 1,052 Posts Drives: 2016 F80 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Location, Location. iTrader: (0)	RacrX don't give up on the Lotus. Just done the deed myself and it's quite fun. We'll see if it still holds my attention in a year. First mods will include low race seats and a quick disconnect wheel to improve driving position and cut down on the gymnastics. Right now I stand upright in the car and then sit down, and reverse the process to get out. I cannot swing my legs over the sill otherwise, I'm too long. I'll be keeping the M3, I still love her dearly. I might have to go big power / drag strip mode with it if I won't be tracking it as much. __________________ ///M3: MW / SO
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08-03-2016, 06:41 AM	#44
RacrX Second Lieutenant 62 Rep 290 Posts Drives: 2014 335i Msport Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (0)	That is a beautiful car. Is the rear clam hinged on yours? I've never seen one up like that. I used to use the soft top on my Elise and just roll it back to get in easier. This one is an Exige, so the hard top is meant to stay on, makes it harder to get in. Removable wheel is a good idea though.
	Appreciate 0 Quote