GTS twins: the GTMore journey

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by JustAnothaM4

Hey man...any more info on the motorsport hubs? Any difference from the standard hub on the GTS?

Also any more info on the BW Alcon kit? How noisy is that kit on the street? I'm seriously thinking about switching over to the Alcon kit from AP.

We have them at home, hopefully we post pics. It's the hub/wheel carrier, not the kingpin. So it replaces a part that is the same in all M3s and we get to keep our GTS-specific kingpin.

We haven't received the nickel plated BW-Alcon kit, but we ran the non nickel plated kit which is identical for 3 years. It's not loud on the street other than your choice of pads. There's some level of pad slap which exists in every BBK, but the most important thing for noise is the antirattle clips on the rotor/hub interface and they have them, so overall it is not bothersome.
The BW-Alcons are extremely serious, the rotor makes other BBK rotors look like toys. We never got the front rotor to crack through, but eventually replaced it out of an abundance of caution. Moreover, they unlock a special bonus: the ability to run the 331/332 combo PFC pads which are next level even vs the regular PFC pads.

[JustAnothaM4]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

We have them at home, hopefully we post pics. It's the hub/wheel carrier, not the kingpin. So it replaces a part that is the same in all M3s and we get to keep our GTS-specific kingpin.

We haven't received the nickel plated BW-Alcon kit, but we ran the non nickel plated kit which is identical for 3 years. It's not loud on the street other than your choice of pads. There's some level of pad slap which exists in every BBK, but the most important thing for noise is the antirattle clips on the rotor/hub interface and they have them, so overall it is not bothersome.
The BW-Alcons are extremely serious, the rotor makes other BBK rotors look like toys. We never got the front rotor to crack through, but eventually replaced it out of an abundance of caution. Moreover, they unlock a special bonus: the ability to run the 331/332 combo PFC pads which are next level even vs the regular PFC pads.

ahhh ok cool on the hub details

Excellent! Thanks for the info on the BW BBK..I'm gonna make the switch..I was just looking at those 333/332/331 pad compounds as I never heard of those.

https://pfc.parts/motorsports/pfc-compounds/

The best part is the easy replacement of rotor rings and or options for pad choices. WIN WIN!

[MaX PL]

Originally Posted by JustAnothaM4

ahhh ok cool on the hub details

Excellent! Thanks for the info on the BW BBK..I'm gonna make the switch..I was just looking at those 333/332/331 pad compounds as I never heard of those.

https://pfc.parts/motorsports/pfc-compounds/

The best part is the easy replacement of rotor rings and or options for pad choices. WIN WIN!

Why do you want to switch?

[SYT_Shadow]

We've been running GTS1 with the stock CCB calipers and Girodisc rotors. We've run two different pad setups: RSL29 and GP40/20. It's a good idea to share the performance with the rest of the M world, so here goes:

Rotors:
Walking around a paddock you see plenty of cars running Girodisc rotors. Pretty much any fast car that comes from the factory with CCBs swaps to the Girodisc setup.
This generally tells you that Girodisc is the real deal, but we weren't 100% sure until we tried them for ourselves. Well, they are definitely the real deal, they've taken 12 days so far and are probably at 50% wear.
The Girodisc themselves are huge (400mm front, 380mm rear) and very heavy, however, like we found with the 36mm thick BW-Alcon BBKs, the extra mass makes a big difference in longevity and keeping temps in check

Backing plates:
Out of an abundance of caution, we bought Ti backing plates for the calipers. On our F80 CS we torched the rear dust boots the one time we used the stock rear brakes and don't want this to happen to the CCB calipers. We got the front shims from ebay and the rears from Girodisc

Pads:
Overall, a downside to running the Girodiscs is PFC does not make a pad for it. We have been thoroughly spoiled by many PFC pads and were not looking forward to something different. In the end we tried two different pads.
Pad compound 1: RSL29
The shortest comment is they feel like someone has stolen your brake pads and replaced them for pieces of wood. There is little to no feedback from the brakes running this pad. They do last a long time, but otherwise there's no lost love for this pad and hopefully we will never run it again.
Pad compound 2: Girodisc GP40/20
We had never heard of these, but ran into them when getting the Ti shims. Given the good experience with the rotors, what about their pads?
We were pleasantly surprised with their good performance. Good pedal feel and threshold feedback which is really important. As a side bonus, they aren't loud on the street once bedded in and don't wear quickly.


We can finally dispel the myth that 'no BMW comes with good track brakes'. These are clearly very good, and have the same track mods that any other brand of cars has for serious track work (rotors and pads). The two 991.2 GT3 RS we were chasing in a recent weekend were using AP Racing on one and PFC (cup car brake conversion, $$$$$$) on the other. So it seems like not only BMWs get upgraded brakes...

That said, we have had our nickel plated BimmerWorld-Alcon BBKs on order since Jan and they should be arriving soon, so it is likely we will not test any other pads/setups on the stock calipers.
We look forward to running 18" wheel setups and the latest PFC pads


Let's look at some pics of this setup

The pads are shiny silver colored. Also take a look at the Ti shims. The front pads are absolutely massive




Installed

[butraymond]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

We've been running GTS1 with the stock CCB calipers and Girodisc rotors. We've run two different pad setups: RSL29 and GP40/20. It's a good idea to share the performance with the rest of the M world, so here goes:

Rotors:
Walking around a paddock you see plenty of cars running Girodisc rotors. Pretty much any fast car that comes from the factory with CCBs swaps to the Girodisc setup.
This generally tells you that Girodisc is the real deal, but we weren't 100% sure until we tried them for ourselves. Well, they are definitely the real deal, they've taken 12 days so far and are probably at 50% wear.
The Girodisc themselves are huge (400mm front, 380mm rear) and very heavy, however, like we found with the 36mm thick BW-Alcon BBKs, the extra mass makes a big difference in longevity and keeping temps in check

Backing plates:
Out of an abundance of caution, we bought Ti backing plates for the calipers. On our F80 CS we torched the rear dust boots the one time we used the stock rear brakes and don't want this to happen to the CCB calipers. We got the front shims from ebay and the rears from Girodisc

Pads:
Overall, a downside to running the Girodiscs is PFC does not make a pad for it. We have been thoroughly spoiled by many PFC pads and were not looking forward to something different. In the end we tried two different pads.
Pad compound 1: RSL29
The shortest comment is they feel like someone has stolen your brake pads and replaced them for pieces of wood. There is little to no feedback from the brakes running this pad. They do last a long time, but otherwise there's no lost love for this pad and hopefully we will never run it again.
Pad compound 2: Girodisc GP40/20
We had never heard of these, but ran into them when getting the Ti shims. Given the good experience with the rotors, what about their pads?
We were pleasantly surprised with their good performance. Good pedal feel and threshold feedback which is really important. As a side bonus, they aren't loud on the street once bedded in and don't wear quickly.


We can finally dispel the myth that 'no BMW comes with good track brakes'. These are clearly very good, and have the same track mods that any other brand of cars has for serious track work (rotors and pads). The two 991.2 GT3 RS we were chasing in a recent weekend were using AP Racing on one and PFC (cup car brake conversion, $$$$$$) on the other. So it seems like not only BMWs get upgraded brakes...

That said, we have had our nickel plated BimmerWorld-Alcon BBKs on order since Jan and they should be arriving soon, so it is likely we will not test any other pads/setups on the stock calipers.
We look forward to running 18" wheel setups and the latest PFC pads


Let's look at some pics of this setup

The pads are shiny silver colored. Also take a look at the Ti shims. The front pads are absolutely massive




Installed

What about caliper? Do you need to worry about leaking at piston sealing on 2NH caliper? It seems like an issue when pushing hard.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by butraymond

What about caliper? Do you need to worry about leaking at piston sealing on 2NH caliper? It seems like an issue when pushing hard.

If the piston seals fail it's likely due to excess temperature. First you should have burnt dust boots to warn you.

The purpose of the Ti shims is/was precisely to limit how much heat goes into the caliper, as the caliper is completely OEM so it is the weakest link. Still, this system is strong, the brakes took a beating and came back asking for more. There is no performance reason for a normal track rat to upgrade these brakes further

[sly1types]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

We're getting questions on the complexity of the install of the oil capacity upgrade kit from BimmerWorld.

The main objective of this mod is to increase the lateral acceleration limits of the oil system.
Stock 6.5L = 1.3g
CS/GTS 7.0L = 1.4g
BimmerWorld mod 7.3L = 1.46g


It's very simple to do in any oil change.

The kit consists of a spacer, a O-ring and a new sensor

Presteps:
Drain the oil as the oil sensor is at the bottom of the oil pan
Remove the aluminum stiffening plate at the bottom of the engine bay

This is what the sensor looks like once you have access to it






Disconnect the sensor




Use a 10mm socket to unscrew the 3 bolts




Some oil will drip out along with the sensor once you remove it, but it's not a lot




Here's the oil sensor out of the car




There is a spacer already installed in the oil pan. This is a GTS so no idea if a 'civic/ZCP' F8X has one already. Regardless, if there is a spacer it should be removed




With a screw driver or another similar tool, gently pry between the spacer and the oil pan. It doesn't take a lot to separate it






Comparison between the stock GTS spacer and the new BimmerWorld spacer






Make sure to install the rubber gasket in the kit onto the BimmerWorld spacer




Install the spacer onto the oil sensor. Note it only fits one way, so keep rotating until the holes match up.

Tighten to 10Nm

Done! Now fill to 7.3L. The car will say 'full' is 7.3L vs 6.5L/7.0L before (civic/ZCP vs CS/GTS respectively)

Did you not have to do the longer studs since yours is a GTS? Looks like now the kit comes with studs.

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Oil-Leve...M3-M4-S55.html

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by sly1types

Did you not have to do the longer studs since yours is a GTS? Looks like now the kit comes with studs.

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Oil-Leve...M3-M4-S55.html

Exactly

[sly1types]

What is the oil setup on the GT4 cars? Is the sensor setup similar? What is the G rating?

[MaX PL]

Originally Posted by sly1types

What is the oil setup on the GT4 cars? Is the sensor setup similar? What is the G rating?

hey I looked at your instagram and notice you run pirelli dh. where do you get them and what size are you running?

[sly1types]

Originally Posted by MaX PL

hey I looked at your instagram and notice you run pirelli dh. where do you get them and what size are you running?

Those are 305/645/18 front and rear. They are on apex 18x10.5 et 22 with 5mm spacer on front. The. 18x11 et44 rear. I have a local tire guy that I get them through, but there are websites that sell takeoffs like usedracingtires.com.

To run this you will need 3.5+ camber and 2.25" coil that's 5" long

[SYT_Shadow]

aaand UPS will be dropping some shiny calipers off in a couple of days...

[OG Shark]

Patiently waiting for pics of the new shiny...

[///Mobbin]

I'm on vacation in Costa Rica and still checking this thread!

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Patiently waiting for pics of the new shiny...

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

I'm on vacation in Costa Rica and still checking this thread!

I don't have them yet!! Ugh this weekend would be perfect to install them!

[SYT_Shadow]

Good things come to those who wait!

Four boxes showed up today and it's the alcons! I'll leave some quick pics here, it'll be a while before we can install them.
Overall they look silver and some areas are a full out mirror, so cool!! Worth the wait!

[SYT_Shadow]

and if that wasn't enough... another giant box arrived! Slon Workshop GTS aero for both cars!
Functionally it is similar to the GTS aero, but the stock parts crack due to downforce and these won't. Although the stock parts are very expensive, they have a T joint that holds a lot of force and simply cracks, so this part fixes that.
The finish is polished raw carbon fiber, not lacquered, so it doesn't have lots of gloss but it is more resilient to impacts. We will not be wrapping these parts.

[ninekrpm]

wow! seriously, so sexy

[Jeff80]

Oh damn them Alcons ....

[ClubsportJunkie]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

and if that wasn't enough... another giant box arrived! Slon Workshop GTS aero for both cars!
Functionally it is similar to the GTS aero, but the stock parts crack due to downforce and these won't. Although the stock parts are very expensive, they have a T joint that holds a lot of force and simply cracks, so this part fixes that.
The finish is polished raw carbon fiber, not lacquered, so it doesn't have lots of gloss but it is more resilient to impacts. We will not be wrapping these parts.

That's interesting...With all the track time I've put on the GTS (peak MPH is 155), I haven't noticed a crack starting to develop...Where did you start to see the signs?

Also when I'm out there in September, I'm worried I might get jealous with those Alcon's... Hanging out with Lienrocs and his AP brakes and E88's have been bad enough

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Sh4d0w

That's interesting...With all the track time I've put on the GTS (peak MPH is 155), I haven't noticed a crack starting to develop...Where did you start to see the signs?

Also when I'm out there in September, I'm worried I might get jealous with those Alcon's... Hanging out with Lienrocs and his AP brakes and E88's have been bad enough

it's on the bottom of the lip, close to the mounting holes. I have some pics somewhere. Both cars had brand new lips and both are cracked now

[FrankMstein]

So do you own the GTMore car or just copying it? Interested to know if you are doing any brake cooling? I have TI shims on the way now. Still keeping CCB Will be doing the oil spacer. I can't understand why BW has two different oil spacer kits. One $100 more but is the same. One back ordered. Strange. I have gotten deals off their site because they fail to keep it up to date. Don't understand why you can't just get studs and spacer, why does one need an new sensor, some interference? Why didn't you go with the GT4 manual conversion, $200 more + ISTA coding? You would think they would tell you if it had any extra capacity or baffles or ???