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      07-30-2013, 10:01 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glockperfect View Post
I am not usually one to weigh in on the new M3, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed in the 415-hp projections, especially after initial projections were in the 450 hp range.
I still believe that the final number will be much more closer to 450hp than the 420hp. It is just inevitable just for the increased price alone that this sucker will have.
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      07-30-2013, 11:19 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by glockperfect View Post
I am not usually one to weigh in on the new M3, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed in the 415-hp projections, especially after initial projections were in the 450 hp range.
+1
Not only comparing to its competitors, but also a regular 50i car gets almost 450 hp for the latest V8TwinTurbo engine from BMW itself. If the M3, as a true M car, can't even get to this point, I'd be a little disappointed.
I know it's not all about the HP, but I don't want to see some comment like "producing 414 hp with just a 6 cylinder engine is amazing". BMW, you have already dropped 2 cylinders, that means you have to convince us with this I6 to be much more powerful than the current V8. It doesn't means you can make excuse of not making any improvement on power. Come on! BMW.
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      07-30-2013, 06:34 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
It will absolutely trounce the E92 M3, but it will do so because it will have more peak hp combined with less weight, completely independent of how much torque it makes.
My point was that torque is satisfying to the butt dyno. Trounce in subjective levels of enjoyment when mashing the rightmost pedal.
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      07-31-2013, 12:11 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by MCoupeInsanity View Post
My point was that torque is satisfying to the butt dyno. Trounce in subjective levels of enjoyment when mashing the rightmost pedal.
Crank torque is truly meaningless. Wheel force is meaningful (directly related to wheel torque by wheel radius) and is something one can actually feel. But then even that is not quite right, what we feel is acceleration which is force divided by vehicle mass. Back at the beginning of this "train" the only way to determine wheel torque is with knowledge of the gearing. hp is basically a way to describe the combined effects of gearing and crank torque. However, it is typically true that high torque and low power engines have gears which enable good acceleration in a much higher gear than the ideal gear for a given speed.
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      07-31-2013, 12:48 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Oh? Surely a competitor with a 400hp+ Cummins turbo diesel putting out 800 ft-lb of torque could bury both an E92 M3 and F82 swamp. Right? I mean all that torque must mean something for performance, no?

Nope, it wouldn't.

Despite adjusting the gearing (through final drive) and redline, doubling the torque (say from 300 to 600 ft lb) has nearly no impact on overall performance. However maintaining a 8000 or 8000+ redline would be pretty much impossible, perhaps 6000 or 7000 is even mathematically possible. Such a car would then reach around 400 hp way down at about half of the current actual cars redline!

Either way the cars 1/4 mile time and trap (compared to a regular M3) would be within a few tenths and a couple mph. The torque monster could, depending on the final drive ration get a decent jump on the actual car perhaps below about 50 mph (if traction was even possible). Most other major performance metrics would be very similar. Also the torque monster could do in 6th gear that the real car would need to begin in 3rd, but they would achieve about the same net result.

Why is all this the case, again simply because the cars would have the same (peak) power to weight ratio.
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      07-31-2013, 08:06 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Nope, it wouldn't.
I appreciate the explanation, but it was meant to be light sarcasm (hence the smiley). I guess it was a bit too dry.
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      07-31-2013, 09:24 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I appreciate the explanation, but it was meant to be light sarcasm (hence the smiley). I guess it was a bit too dry.
I thought light prodding/contrariness as opposed to light sarcasm. The example is useful to think about in term of how little crank torque actually matters.
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      08-02-2013, 01:39 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
I still believe that the final number will be much more closer to 450hp than the 420hp. It is just inevitable just for the increased price alone that this sucker will have.
+1

Must have more hp and tq. Must have lighter weight. If can achieve this, then time for beers!
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      08-07-2013, 10:47 PM   #31
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With the probability of this competition package coming in year two, does this make any of you skeptical on buying first year?

(for me it makes no difference, I would be trying to keep the price down with few options and I believe the base model will be plenty impressive.)
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      08-08-2013, 03:40 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxa121 View Post
With the probability of this competition package coming in year two, does this make any of you skeptical on buying first year?
Year two? Likely too soon based on recent introductions of the Competition Pkg. I'd wager it'll come with the LCI.
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      08-08-2013, 06:01 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCoupeInsanity View Post
People griping about the 415hp number will shut up when they sit in it and experience that turbo torque. It's going to trounce the E92.
From my understanding its not official yet exactly how much HP the M4 will have.

I doubt it will be 415hp, i'd say more in the range of 430-450 unless it was confrimed already.
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      08-08-2013, 06:28 AM   #34
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An extra 15 or so horsepower shouldn't be that noticeable when you're talking about a number that's already over 400. I still plan on getting one regardless...
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      08-08-2013, 06:54 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern View Post
Year two? Likely too soon based on recent introductions of the Competition Pkg. I'd wager it'll come with the LCI.
recent comp package for M5 is a 2014 option. US got the f10 m5 as a 2013 model. That is why I thought year two.
Plus, the LCI for the f30 should be around 2015.
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      08-08-2013, 07:25 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxa121 View Post
recent comp package for M5 is a 2014 option. US got the f10 m5 as a 2013 model. That is why I thought year two.
Plus, the LCI for the f30 should be around 2015.
Ah, yes, indeed. I didn't calculate that it was two years for the M5 LCI (2014).
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      08-16-2013, 10:45 AM   #37
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It will definitely be disappointing if BMW doesn't increase HP for the M4. I would expect it to be around 450, and a competition package to add few more.

The only question is when.
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      09-27-2013, 01:11 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos_Danger View Post
Maybe 1-2 years later ala M5 and M6, but really as it is,
that car doesnt need a comp package at all
IDK. I really love the comp pack. Just the wheels alone on my e46 m3 comp and e92 m3 comp set off the car better than the non comp e46 m3 i had and the non comp e92 m3 i had. I prefer the two comp pack cars over the others. Who knows, comp pack on the f82 might be more than just wider wheels and slightly lower stance.
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      09-27-2013, 01:18 PM   #39
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99.9% sure it will
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      09-27-2013, 01:33 PM   #40
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Comp pack will be there but who knows when. For me, I would not buy without LCI and comp pack. That always adds so much and I don't need to be an early adopter. I bet LCI after 2 years and comp pack probably at the same time if not available at launch.
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      09-27-2013, 01:48 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Comp pack will be there but who knows when. For me, I would not buy without LCI and comp pack. That always adds so much and I don't need to be an early adopter. I bet LCI after 2 years and comp pack probably at the same time if not available at launch.
Agree on LED tails too. I dont know how they can get away with not offering them right off the bat!
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      09-27-2013, 11:48 PM   #42
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      09-28-2013, 02:12 AM   #43
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Are led tail lights lighter or something? Why does it matter what they are?
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      09-28-2013, 01:16 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl L View Post
I wish we could all say "no" to these power packs. So what is the launch or standard car, half baked? The 15bhp increase on the F10 M5 was a joke and a sad result of the huge profit AMG makes from such tactics.

During the LCI I used to look forward to the small tweaks that came with the CS edition, especially as the changes (in the case of the E46 especially) were based on improvements 4 years of release showed the car needed, and also a little more visual heft with the drop and wider wheels. But a power boost for anything other than the much more exotic CSL or GTS variant is tacky and a slap in the face for early adopters given that an M3, or M5, should have full power from the start.

Were it available from launch (not a 100% impossibility, how can one know?) which is highly unlikely, I'd have to look at the numbers and decide if i wanted it. Were it like the M5s, I'd pass, and that's from someone who usually ticks almost every option box imaginable like a true victim of marketing.
$7300 is crazy for exhaust note and a 2.x% power bump.
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