Rev-match enabled in Sport+ beginning July 2018 production? UPDATE: Confirmed

[Downeaster1]

So, I'm pretty conflicted on this. I'm a BMW tech, and have updated my 17' F80 to the latest firmware. Rev-matching sometimes works in Sport+. I've noticed that it is more likely to work if I'm driving around in Sport mode first, then switch to Sport+. Following that, It'll work for 1-3min after switching, then rev-matching will disable. I have zero fault codes, and the I-Level is up-to-date. There are no test plans and no bullitens. I've submitted a PUMA case to BMW NA to see if they have any insight on it, as well as having our TSE come out and inspect. I'm pretty involved in the BMW coding community, but this one has me stumped. I've written a custom VO and tried settings for different countries, but so far nothing yet. I'll keep ya'll posted.

[instarand]

Originally Posted by Downeaster1

So, I'm pretty conflicted on this. I'm a BMW tech, and have updated my 17' F80 to the latest firmware. Rev-matching sometimes works in Sport+. I've noticed that it is more likely to work if I'm driving around in Sport mode first, then switch to Sport+. Following that, It'll work for 1-3min after switching, then rev-matching will disable. I have zero fault codes, and the I-Level is up-to-date. There are no test plans and no bullitens. I've submitted a PUMA case to BMW NA to see if they have any insight on it, as well as having our TSE come out and inspect. I'm pretty involved in the BMW coding community, but this one has me stumped. I've written a custom VO and tried settings for different countries, but so far nothing yet. I'll keep ya'll posted.

That's awesome thanks for your input. Eagerly awaiting what you find out!

[Downeaster1]

Soooo. I got a response. Rev-matching in Sport+ is not supposed to happen, and there is no intention on making it happen. The reason there is a 1-3min window of it working is so that it doesn't disable while you are in the middle of a shift. The parameters for the variable are stored in the DME, and although can be modified via programming, cannot be coded (For those that don't know, there is a difference between programming and coding).

I'm going to use my own car as the guinea pig on this one and see if I can manipulate it. I'll post updates in this thread to keep everything together. Theoretically, this value string is in the same location as the default start settings (Comfort, Sport, Sport), so if rev-matching can be enabled in all drive settings, I would think you can also program in what mode to start in. Just a thought. If I can get the datum files modified to a level where I feel like it won't fuck anything up, I'll publish it. I'll also need a non-ZCP to manipulate those files for release as well. For those who have been flash-tuned, you're gonna be SOL until your software developer cracks this.

Also: Don't bug your service advisors about this, unless they are actually a BMW enthusiast. Most of the technicians that I work with, couldn't give a flying fuck to diagnose this "issue", or to spend time on.

[instarand]

Originally Posted by Downeaster1

Soooo. I got a response. Rev-matching in Sport+ is not supposed to happen, and there is no intention on making it happen. The reason there is a 1-3min window of it working is so that it doesn't disable while you are in the middle of a shift. The parameters for the variable are stored in the DME, and although can be modified via programming, cannot be coded (For those that don't know, there is a difference between programming and coding).

I'm going to use my own car as the guinea pig on this one and see if I can manipulate it. I'll post updates in this thread to keep everything together. Theoretically, this value string is in the same location as the default start settings (Comfort, Sport, Sport), so if rev-matching can be enabled in all drive settings, I would think you can also program in what mode to start in. Just a thought. If I can get the datum files modified to a level where I feel like it won't fuck anything up, I'll publish it. I'll also need a non-ZCP to manipulate those files for release as well. For those who have been flash-tuned, you're gonna be SOL until your software developer cracks this.

Also: Don't bug your service advisors about this, unless they are actually a BMW enthusiast. Most of the technicians that I work with, couldn't give a flying fuck to diagnose this "issue", or to spend time on.

Thanks for the update.

What are your thoughts on people with production dates June 2018 and later consistently reporting that rev matching is enabled in sport + all the time? It seems that your experience with rev match happening in sport + mode sometimes, or only for a short period of time, is different than the other reports.

It appears M3 and M4 with June-October production dates all seem to have rev match in all modes, all the time.

[Downeaster1]

Originally Posted by instarand

Thanks for the update.

What are your thoughts on people with production dates June 2018 and later consistently reporting that rev matching is enabled in sport + all the time? It seems that your experience with rev match happening in sport + mode sometimes, or only for a short period of time, is different than the other reports.

It appears M3 and M4 with June-October production dates all seem to have rev match in all modes, all the time.

If that is the case, it shouldn't (according to BMW). We have a September production manual sitting in the back lot. I'll see if I can grab the key on Monday and read the FASTA data and compare.

[instarand]

Originally Posted by Downeaster1

If that is the case, it shouldn't (according to BMW). We have a September production manual sitting in the back lot. I'll see if I can grab the key on Monday and read the FASTA data and compare.

Yes, strange right? If you read back on this thread you'll see multiple people confirming rev match in all throttle settings, including sport +.

Thanks so much for your effort on this one. We're all counting on you to get to the bottom of this!!!

[Downeaster1]

Okay, just another update here. I pulled the 18' out of the back lot and went for a 2 mile road test (it's still a new, unsold car, so keeping the miles down is an absolute must). I CAN confirm that rev-matching DOES work in all three drive modes. I went down the street to get coffee, cycled the key, and rev-matching still works in Sport+. What throws me, is that EVERYTHING is identical compared to my 8/16 build (17' MY).

I really have no idea what is going on.

[instarand]

Originally Posted by Downeaster1

Okay, just another update here. I pulled the 18' out of the back lot and went for a 2 mile road test (it's still a new, unsold car, so keeping the miles down is an absolute must). I CAN confirm that rev-matching DOES work in all three drive modes. I went down the street to get coffee, cycled the key, and rev-matching still works in Sport+. What throws me, is that EVERYTHING is identical compared to my 8/16 build (17' MY).

I really have no idea what is going on.

Wow. This IS strange, huh? Do you have any idea how to even investigate further?

[Downeaster1]

Originally Posted by instarand

Wow. This IS strange, huh? Do you have any idea how to even investigate further?

I have no clue. They give us very limited diagnostic tools, and just about nothing at that level. Most techs don't even know what NCSExpert is. I can duplicate data from one control module to the other, but modules that require FCS codes and VIN/Mileage data manipulation have to be programmed via an IRAP session (we connect to the car, and BMW hijacks our computer and does everything on the side, behind closed doors).

I copied as much data as I could off the 18' and I'm going to try and code it to my 17' as soon as work hours are over.

[instarand]

Originally Posted by Downeaster1

I have no clue. They give us very limited diagnostic tools, and just about nothing at that level. Most techs don't even know what NCSExpert is. I can duplicate data from one control module to the other, but modules that require FCS codes and VIN/Mileage data manipulation have to be programmed via an IRAP session (we connect to the car, and BMW hijacks our computer and does everything on the side, behind closed doors).

I copied as much data as I could off the 18' and I'm going to try and code it to my 17' as soon as work hours are over.

Interesting. And So if all the owners manuals say that rev match is disabled in sport + I wonder what would happen if somebody with late 2018 production F8x went to a dealer and entered a service request stating that rev match was working improperly since it's still activated when in sport + I wonder what the service advisors would say, or what they would be told if they escalated to the powers that be in bmw.....?

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by Downeaster1

I have no clue. They give us very limited diagnostic tools, and just about nothing at that level. Most techs don't even know what NCSExpert is. I can duplicate data from one control module to the other, but modules that require FCS codes and VIN/Mileage data manipulation have to be programmed via an IRAP session (we connect to the car, and BMW hijacks our computer and does everything on the side, behind closed doors).

I copied as much data as I could off the 18' and I'm going to try and code it to my 17' as soon as work hours are over.

There's not really anything to investigate. It's related to the driveshaft change to steel from CF.

[instarand]

Originally Posted by lemetier

There's not really anything to investigate. It's related to the driveshaft change to steel from CF.

Not sure I follow...? That change was made in mid 2017 sometime, wasn't it? The auto rev match being enabled in sport + throttle only started happening in June 2018 and later. My April 2018 production F80 has the same drive shaft as the ones produced in June-October of 2018. Mine disables rev match in sport + while the newer ones do not.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.

[KZEVO]

I took my car in for 1200 mile break-in service. I asked the tech's to specifically look into this issue as it frustrates me not be able to heel-toe without having to disable DSC. Although i have to give the SA credit for everything he could do to talk to the techs and others to help resolve this issue. The techs supposedly spoke BMW NA tech and the explanation that was provided made no sense to me. I plan on raising this issue with BMW NA again.

[Downeaster1]

Originally Posted by lemetier

There's not really anything to investigate. It's related to the driveshaft change to steel from CF.

Originally Posted by instarand

Not sure I follow...? That change was made in mid 2017 sometime, wasn't it? The auto rev match being enabled in sport + throttle only started happening in June 2018 and later. My April 2018 production F80 has the same drive shaft as the ones produced in June-October of 2018. Mine disables rev match in sport + while the newer ones do not.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.

Saying that rev-matching being correlated to the driveshaft material is like saying "Ever since you changed my oil, my cat has become pregnant".

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by Downeaster1

Saying that rev-matching being correlated to the driveshaft material is like saying "Ever since you changed my oil, my cat has become pregnant".

Critical Velocity (whip speed) on the 6MT, drivetrain slack region moving from one end of the spectrum to the other, and the choice between engine damage or tire slip to negate both is very different than your analogy.

[Downeaster1]

Originally Posted by lemetier

Critical Velocity (whip speed) on the 6MT, drivetrain slack region moving from one end of the spectrum to the other, and the choice between engine damage or tire slip to negate both is very different than your analogy.

I understand the physics behind it, I'm saying in terms of production date, there is zero connection. If steel driveshafts were shipped in the same batch as rev-matching cars, then I would say you are on to something.

[Downeaster1]

Originally Posted by pheerIx

The real question is whether the resale value of my now discontinued Silverstone, CF driveshafted, no rev match in Sport+ M3 will shoot up to 1///M levels.

I'm on the same bandwagon as you haha

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by Downeaster1

I understand the physics behind it, I'm saying in terms of production date, there is zero connection. If steel driveshafts were shipped in the same batch as rev-matching cars, then I would say you are on to something.

All the cars with it are production week beginning Monday 28.05.2018 correct?

Guess what else coincides with that date.

[gunsmoker]

Originally Posted by pheerIx

The real question is whether the resale value of my now discontinued Silverstone, CF driveshafted, no rev match in Sport+ M3 will shoot up to 1///M levels.

No, the people that care will pass away well before that.

[Downeaster1]

Originally Posted by lemetier

All the cars with it are production week beginning Monday 28.05.2018 correct?

Guess what else coincides with that date.

Don't know what to tell you. The 18' I tested Is a 3/18 Production ZCP and it rev-matches just fine with it's carbon shafts.
You do realize that they have "soft production stop dates" that when minor changes are introduced, they stop the line for the day, make the changes, then resume. This is done so production doesn't stop every 45min when a minor change is made. They save multiple changes and execute them all when time permits. I can't speak for Dingolfing, but that's how they do it at the Leipzig plant.
Just FYI.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Downeaster1

Don't know what to tell you. The 18' I tested Is a 3/18 Production ZCP and it rev-matches just fine with it's carbon shafts.
You do realize that they have "soft production stop dates" that when minor changes are introduced, they stop the line for the day, make the changes, then resume. This is done so production doesn't stop every 45min when a minor change is made. They save multiple changes and execute them all when time permits. I can't speak for Dingolfing, but that's how they do it at the Leipzig plant.
Just FYI.

I think lemetier knows a thing or two more than the average Joe about BMW inner workings

[///Mobbin]

Originally Posted by lemetier

There's not really anything to investigate. It's related to the driveshaft change to steel from CF.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I think lemetier knows a thing or two more than the average Joe about BMW inner workings

Perhaps all that needs to be done is to code the car as though it has a steel driveshaft.