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      04-11-2022, 10:43 PM   #1
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BM3 throttle sensitivity update

New update. Interested to see peoples' feedback on this.
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      04-12-2022, 12:55 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpgfunk View Post
New update. Interested to see peoples' feedback on this.
Feedback? Lower my cars slower higher my cars faster. Butt dyno proven
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      04-12-2022, 03:47 AM   #3
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It is my understanding that BMW has 3 separate throttle curves across their F platforms. For me on N55 it is eco, comfort, sport/sport+. For you guys it's efficient, sport, sport+. Same idea different names. Each of our highest options lower temp targets, increase burbles, change exhaust valve behavior, and affect throttle transition wastegate behavior to raise baseline turbine speed for faster spool.

I'm wondering if this can be used to make all throttle modes have the same response curve, or if it just affects the partial throttle response of each mode. If you were looking at the (X) throttle input vs (Y) commanded load graph, does this change the curve shape itself or just slide the curve down or right to begin later in the throttle input range?
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      04-12-2022, 07:32 AM   #4
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Is this laptop only? I checked my BM3 phone app, not there, and there's no updates in the App Store.
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      04-12-2022, 08:33 AM   #5
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Quote:
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New update. Interested to see peoples' feedback on this.
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      04-12-2022, 09:26 AM   #6
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From the first day I thought of having a sport mode that was touch as efficient... today it is possible! only now I'm in Ecutek hehe

waiting for results
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      04-12-2022, 11:23 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruiserM3 View Post
Feedback? Lower my cars slower higher my cars faster. Butt dyno proven
Other way around. It's a reduction in sensitivity, so higher = slower unless you're spinning now and struggling to modulate the throttle.
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      04-12-2022, 12:33 PM   #8
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Is this laptop only? I checked my BM3 phone app, not there, and there's no updates in the App Store.
Yes. So far, laptop only.
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      04-12-2022, 01:13 PM   #9
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So you can use the EU5's without a custom tune now?
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      04-12-2022, 02:19 PM   #10
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Great for the Dct guys. No more bobble heads
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      04-12-2022, 02:22 PM   #11
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Great for the Dct guys. No more bobble heads
There is a little bobblehead in Sport + at low speed even with a 6MT car. But not enough to want to dial it back across all gears.

I would love to be able to dial-back the throttle response by gear. Don't need hair trigger throttle in 1st.
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      04-12-2022, 02:26 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by 1000hp View Post
There is a little bobblehead in Sport + at low speed even with a 6MT car. But not enough to want to dial it back across all gears.

I would love to be able to dial-back the throttle response by gear. Don't need hair trigger throttle in 1st.
Yes, this is true with the bm3 tune. The PJ tune however was OOOOO so smooth.
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      04-12-2022, 07:52 PM   #13
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Update on iOS is live
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      04-12-2022, 09:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Update on iOS is live
Schweet! I just updated the iOS App manually and now I see the new settings.
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      04-13-2022, 09:32 AM   #15
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Nice progress with custom features. I like the EU5 or Nostrum option even with OTS maps
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      04-13-2022, 09:50 PM   #16
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This works great!
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      04-14-2022, 03:56 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtl32 View Post
It is my understanding that BMW has 3 separate throttle curves across their F platforms. For me on N55 it is eco, comfort, sport/sport+. For you guys it's efficient, sport, sport+. Same idea different names. Each of our highest options lower temp targets, increase burbles, change exhaust valve behavior, and affect throttle transition wastegate behavior to raise baseline turbine speed for faster spool.

I'm wondering if this can be used to make all throttle modes have the same response curve, or if it just affects the partial throttle response of each mode. If you were looking at the (X) throttle input vs (Y) commanded load graph, does this change the curve shape itself or just slide the curve down or right to begin later in the throttle input range?
I'm also curious how they were able to allow us to modulate "sensitivity". I like the idea, S+ is slightly too sensitive for my liking. At times I find it challenging to make super refined throttle inputs or corrections, and of course you have the bucking in 1st (I'm DCT) if you sneeze or roll over a peanut.

My goal in my head was to reduce the sens slightly, not the whole way to S, but take the edge off of S+. I went 10% reduction in S+ and have driven it for 2 days that way. So far my impression, based on absolutely no data what-so-ever, is that using the slider actually "de-tunes" that mode. My butt dyno and everyone's favorite topic; burbles, are two reasons for this opinion. Butt dyno - pretty obvious. Burbles - I've noticed that since taking 10% off S+, the Sport burble is actually more aggressive than the S+ with identical settings. When I first noticed this I changed all 4 map slots to the same settings in duration and aggression for both S & S+. I run very conservative settings, normally < 1s duration and 0.5-0.7 for aggression. When flopping back and forth between S and S+ the pops are considerably louder on the S. That's weird right? It has to be tied to the newly changed throttle sensitivity setting, which means it's more than just pedal feel and is likely a throttle mapping change. I'm not trying to nerf my S+ throttle map. I wanna rage in S+ but also chill the pedal feel out a hair.

I guess I hoped that this would simply be a modifier for the fly-by-wire throttle, but it seems it's more. I'm going to ask PTF how this is mech'd. Think I might also run a data log with 0% (stock) and with 10% reduction and see if there's anything tangible.
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      04-14-2022, 09:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubacca View Post
I'm also curious how they were able to allow us to modulate "sensitivity". I like the idea, S+ is slightly too sensitive for my liking. At times I find it challenging to make super refined throttle inputs or corrections, and of course you have the bucking in 1st (I'm DCT) if you sneeze or roll over a peanut.

My goal in my head was to reduce the sens slightly, not the whole way to S, but take the edge off of S+. I went 10% reduction in S+ and have driven it for 2 days that way. So far my impression, based on absolutely no data what-so-ever, is that using the slider actually "de-tunes" that mode. My butt dyno and everyone's favorite topic; burbles, are two reasons for this opinion. Butt dyno - pretty obvious. Burbles - I've noticed that since taking 10% off S+, the Sport burble is actually more aggressive than the S+ with identical settings. When I first noticed this I changed all 4 map slots to the same settings in duration and aggression for both S & S+. I run very conservative settings, normally < 1s duration and 0.5-0.7 for aggression. When flopping back and forth between S and S+ the pops are considerably louder on the S. That's weird right? It has to be tied to the newly changed throttle sensitivity setting, which means it's more than just pedal feel and is likely a throttle mapping change. I'm not trying to nerf my S+ throttle map. I wanna rage in S+ but also chill the pedal feel out a hair.

I guess I hoped that this would simply be a modifier for the fly-by-wire throttle, but it seems it's more. I'm going to ask PTF how this is mech'd. Think I might also run a data log with 0% (stock) and with 10% reduction and see if there's anything tangible.
Interesting take on it. I haven't had a chance to play with it but I do want to point out I have had a similar experience with burbles just due to the recent temp change.

Haven't plugged in bootmod in about a month. Nothing has changed (E50 gas, hardware, etc)

I'm at .8s and a 4 above 2500rpm on comfort throttle which is all I use in my manual. Temps were routinely in the 40s the past few weeks where I live until this week they hit routine 80s. My burbles just got CRAZY. Used to have some rolling thunder, no lightning, and now I get gunshots especially when first warming up or coming off of very light throttle from midrange 2800-4k. Full throttle/high rpm transitions aren't that different. So you may have another variable in addition to the new update if your weather drastically hanged down there too.
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      04-15-2022, 07:45 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubacca View Post
and of course you have the bucking in 1st (I'm DCT) if you sneeze or roll over a peanut.
Haha I made a fool of myself today when I jiggled a little in my seat pulling away from a light. Maybe I should dial mine back a little. Just really not interested in softening it up in anything over first gear.
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      04-15-2022, 01:26 PM   #20
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Ok. I have the day off and it's my birthday and I got to freely nerd out on my car - great day so far. Here's what I found after running multiple logs:

BLUF: Throttle sensitivity modifier does not de-tune the maps, but it does delay or slow actual throttle position compared to the requested pedal %. Instead of 1:1 pedal to commanded throttle position in S+ -0%, S+ -10% will achieve the request at a slower rate commensurate with the reduction in sensitivity.

Test:

Stage 1 91 map selected, Sport+ and Sport+ -10%, 3rd gear, ~3500-4000RPM start, TC on full (I know this impacted the data and I'm a pussy - deal with it). From a roll at the mentioned parameters I floored the pedal and held it until approximately 6k RPM. S+ minus 10% was done first followed by S+ full-up. The car was not fully cooled between tests, so some heat soak could have affected the latter runs.

Data comparison points: max boost, max pedal, max throttle, 5k RPM

Graphs:

Each picture is the comparison point with both logs; top being S+ full-up and bottom being S+ minus 10% sensitivity.

Issues:

TC was engaged on all runs with the throttle sensitivity modifier set to 0 (i.e. stock S+ pedal feel). I repeated this run 3x with the same results, so I accepted the data. I realize that this will likely skew the data and make quantitative results unreliable. TC did not engage on any runs done with S+ nerfed 10% (which is significant). Note: I did warm the tires and do the pulls on a sunny, flat dry road (in Mexico). Rear temps were 85-90 deg F on 3 week old 295mm Conti EC Sports.

Results:

Peak Boost: Peak boost occurred slightly earlier on S+ vs S+ -10% (4,154 vs 4,751 RPM respectively). All other values were nearly identical except for a 4% accel pedal advantage to S+ and a 23% throttle angle advantage to S+ -10%. The significant difference between throttle angles is most certainly due to TC activation (and it can be seen when visually comparing the yellow graphs).

Max Pedal: Max pedal was achieved significantly earlier on S+ vs S+ -10% (4,150 vs 5,310 RPM respectively). The only two sources of this would be human error and the sensitivity modifier. While I believe I floored the pedal evenly on all tests, it's certainly possible that I messed this portion up. This could also be a result of the sensitivity modifier programming a delay for throttle input as the method to achieve a reduced feel. The most significant difference in values at this point is throttle angle 63% vs 96% on S+ and S+ -10% respectively. Again, a consequence of TC activation seen on the yellow graph.

Max Throttle: Max throttle is achieved first for the S+ -10% setting over standard S+. Again, results are dictated by TC activation. If we note the steep curve on the S+ graph beginning about 1/3 in, we can see an extremely sharp logarithmic curve. We would expect this on an unmodified S+ throttle because of the unfiltered 1:1 input to throttle command. Based on that, without redoing the test on a drag strip with TC fully off, I would assume the S+ actually actually achieves max throttle faster than S+ -10%. Maybe a better comparison to remove the TC issues would be to compare throttle request vs actual as a rate (pedal vs throttle angle over time from the start of the input). But I'm not going to do that.

5k RPM: The final data point I chose to compare shows S+ -10% winning out in a few areas; shortest time (slightly), boost and throttle angle. AGAIN, TC engagement would likely create this result. However, it is interesting to see that S+ boost remains stable approximately 4 PSI lower than S+ -10%. I would have expected to see that value matched after TC turns off.

Conclusion:

Based on the things we can quantify, it does not appear that reducing pedal sensitivity "de-tunes" the car. Pre-throttle boost and all other performance related values remain unchanged, however it is clear that those values will be reached at a slower rate than unreduced sensitivity. I say this because of the activation of TC. Reducing sensitivity will result in a slower request of max power resulting in reduced acceleration. In the testing today, this actually resulted in a faster car due to keeping TC uninvolved and the avoidance of wheel spin. Now, what to do with this information? I think there is merit to using the reduction in sensitivity to avoid TC intervention and unwanted wheel spin, however 10% is too much. I believe 5% would be beneficial while not impeding acceleration by a noticeable amount. OR you could just use S+ as designed and modulate the pedal.

Where to go from here:

I'm going to do more testing. I plan to compare 0% reduction and 5% reduction in 4th gear from 3k RPM and TC off.
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      04-17-2022, 06:09 PM   #21
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Today I re-ran the test.

Stage 1 91 map, 4th gear ~3k rpm, Sport+ unmodified vs Sport+ -5% sensitivity and TC off. Rears were ~80 deg F on a warm dry black asphalt road (in Mexico).

This time I ran an auto-log starting when pedal exceeds 35% until 2sec post lift.

The graphs look super similar. The only noticeable difference I can glean is that the S+ log reaches full boost slightly earlier than the S+ -5%. What is most alarming is that the log says my peak boost was in the 30s... Clearly that is not possible. I must have fat-fingered a setting for pressure relative vs absolute or something, because it's normally in the low 20s.

Anyway, my conclusion is still the same: you get a softer, less harsh pedal at the cost of performance. I bet if I cloned my cars and ran the test the S+ -5% would be a hair slower, probably un-noticeably so. I bet there would be better info if someone with a dragy ran a test.

Other opinions obviously welcome.
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      04-20-2022, 01:31 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubacca View Post
Today I re-ran the test.

Stage 1 91 map, 4th gear ~3k rpm, Sport+ unmodified vs Sport+ -5% sensitivity and TC off. Rears were ~80 deg F on a warm dry black asphalt road (in Mexico).

This time I ran an auto-log starting when pedal exceeds 35% until 2sec post lift.

The graphs look super similar. The only noticeable difference I can glean is that the S+ log reaches full boost slightly earlier than the S+ -5%. What is most alarming is that the log says my peak boost was in the 30s... Clearly that is not possible. I must have fat-fingered a setting for pressure relative vs absolute or something, because it's normally in the low 20s.

Anyway, my conclusion is still the same: you get a softer, less harsh pedal at the cost of performance. I bet if I cloned my cars and ran the test the S+ -5% would be a hair slower, probably un-noticeably so. I bet there would be better info if someone with a dragy ran a test.

Other opinions obviously welcome.
My idea about this is that with accelerator at 100% in both cases... they should work the same...

the big difference is when we move smoothly through the city or highway at a speed maintained at a pedal percentage of between 10 and 20%.

Is there an improvement... does it look like sport+ to sport?
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