Next Level Auto Brokers
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > BMW M3 (F80) and BMW M4 (F82) General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-20-2013, 08:17 AM   #89
turbolag
is nonexistent with N/A
turbolag's Avatar
21
Rep
1,126
Posts

Drives: .
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwelvaar View Post
Putting an I6 in the M2 will like seriously piss off anyone that's bought the M4 (or M3)... Not?

1-2, 3-4, 5-6 series and 4,6,8 cylinders seems logical.
1-2 offer i4s and i6s, 3-4 offer i4 and i6s, 5-6 offer i4, i6, and v8, 7 (8?) offer i6, v8, and v12...just saying.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2013, 08:39 AM   #90
clbmw
Major
631
Rep
1,482
Posts

Drives: 320d M135i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel
I just had the chance to read the full interview and one part jumped out at me that I don't think I've seen mentioned yet:

Quote:
MT: Could M do a hybrid?

FN: It’s not necessary. The i brand represents those cars for BMW. Sure, a lightweight lithium-ion battery is useful, not for drive but for auxiliary functions and support systems. But there’s no M hybrid in the near future. But if, say, China passed regulations that meant I couldn’t sell M cars there without hybrid, I would have to think about it.
To me he dropped a big hint there. This might not necessarily apply to the F8x, but it could. However, certainly they are looking seriously into KERS-type systems, and if that research was not yielding potentially useful results, I don't think he'd even have made mention of the possible usefulness of the batteries.
Well spotted!

Hope you're right
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2013, 08:58 AM   #91
nullrouted
Studying...
nullrouted's Avatar
United_States
36
Rep
860
Posts

Drives: AW '13 E92 ZCP 6MT M3
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: North Central Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapajimG View Post
Some OT

Will the auto show take place after yesterday's events? Do you have any infos on an eventual cancellation?

...The city of Detroit filed for Chapter 9 bankruptcy protection in federal court Thursday...
Quote:
Originally Posted by chmura View Post
Detroit is bankrupt. They should move it elsewhere.
What does municipal bankruptcy have to do with NAIAS? Detroit needs this more now than ever. The show brings in thousands of travelers who inject money in to the Detroit economy.

The show is not publicly funded. Quite the opposite, really.
...but are we sure the M4 won't be stolen before it can be exhibited there?
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2013, 09:45 AM   #92
cs4444
Second Lieutenant
cs4444's Avatar
United_States
9
Rep
222
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw View Post
Well spotted!

Hope you're right
Kers would add weight and $$$$. It sounds like M is pretty determined to cut weight every way they can.

With that said the new Mercedes S63amg just debut, and it has a smaller lithium ion battery instead of a conventional car battery which saves the S class around 40lbs...I bet the M3/M4 will do the same.

Last edited by cs4444; 07-20-2013 at 10:00 AM..
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2013, 11:40 AM   #93
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
7506
Rep
19,370
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cs4444 View Post
Kers would add weight and $$$$. It sounds like M is pretty determined to cut weight every way they can.

With that said the new Mercedes S63amg just debut, and it has a smaller lithium ion battery instead of a conventional car battery which saves the S class around 40lbs...I bet the M3/M4 will do the same.
Good point about the new S Class, and you may be right as far as the M3/M4 using such a battery. I think the 991 may also use something similar, at least as an option.

Still he could have just said "as a replacement for today's [heavy] lead-acid batteries", but instead he used the language "for auxiliary functions and support systems". Remember, the question was about a hybrid drive. I think he elected to qualify his answer carefully so as to not later be called out if/when M does employ technology that could loosely be grouped in with such types of drive systems. In other words, I think he was covering his bases by clarifying things right up front: we may use energy storage and we may use it to power electric motors like a hybrid does, but not connected to the drive wheels themselves.

And yes, It is true that KERS will add weight, but so too will whatever solution they have engineered for the turbocharging system vs. the N55. For that matter, in general, high performance parts weigh more than non-high-performance ones. This is why all past M vehicles outweigh their non-M siblings. So, to the extent that M must employ solutions that allow their products to sit at the top of the performance heap, so too must they continue to accept that they will be penalized in the weight department for the use of those solutions. The key, then, is to eliminate weight in other areas where it is possible to do so without either accepting less performance or less durability/reliability as a result of the added performance.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2013, 12:58 PM   #94
needabeemer
Banned
2
Rep
42
Posts

Drives: ???
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by caneaddict View Post
No offense, but that is some pretty suspect logic. Every model of every manufacturer has multiple levels Audi (A, S, RS) etc. BMW isn't hiding anything, everyone knows what the variations are, choose what you can afford or value. Everyone that buys a non-M car knows there is something more appealing at a higher price. There are people that want a 7 series but can only afford a 128i - should BMW help those people feel special by canceling the rest of the lineup?

If you don't want to spend $60k on a 435 and end up jealous of the M4 then spend $85k on an M4.
you missed my point. im not complaining about price or "jealous" of the m4. i would LOVE to buy the m4 instead of a 435i. what im complaining about is that its not available at launch (unlike the newly revealed s63). yes, car companies always reveal the high performance models later down the line, such as the RS and M models, but usually they wait at least a few years. bmw is going to ruin its 435i customers perception of their "brand new" car when in just a few months they reveal the m4. with the 5 and 6 series at least they had the decency to wait a while before revealing the M variants.

i already know what some will say. "just get an m4 then" ...its not that easy. the m4 wont be AVAILABLE until over a year from now, but it will be revealed in just a few months... doesnt anyone see my gripe with this? its going to be a tease when a customer gets the brand new 435i delivered in september, only to have it ruined in january by a much more aggressive looking model. for those that could afford the M version and wouldve wanted it instead (such as myself), this will be bothersome. i dont want to wait another 15-16 months for an m4 but i also dont want my $65k 4 series to be a decision i regret in just 3 months from now

the least they can do is not reveal it until later on in 2014, so that we can enjoy our base model 4 series coupes a little longer without having to wish it has the M aesthetics.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2013, 01:13 PM   #95
V8FunNaturally
Banned
55
Rep
1,017
Posts

Drives: Regensburg Factory E92M3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NA

iTrader: (0)

That's it. Based on that official info, the M4 has already lost against the GT-R (present, past and future). To keep them in the battle AWD was an absolute must to put that power down the wheels. Trying to make up by reducing weight is a lost battle in a consumer car because they would have to cut by factor of two and the 50-50 weight distribution is no match against a car with AWD and stability control on all 4 wheels. GAME OVER. This car will be an efficient, fast souped up 335i but no contender among the greats.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2013, 01:57 PM   #96
Boss330
Major General
Boss330's Avatar
No_Country
1712
Rep
5,108
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I just had the chance to read the full interview and one part jumped out at me that I don't think I've seen mentioned yet:

Quote:
MT: Could M do a hybrid?

FN: It’s not necessary. The i brand represents those cars for BMW. Sure, a lightweight lithium-ion battery is useful, not for drive but for auxiliary functions and support systems. But there’s no M hybrid in the near future. But if, say, China passed regulations that meant I couldn’t sell M cars there without hybrid, I would have to think about it.
To me he dropped a big hint there. This might not necessarily apply to the F8x, but it could. However, certainly they are looking seriously into KERS-type systems, and if that research was not yielding potentially useful results, I don't think he'd even have made mention of the possible usefulness of the batteries.
Auxilliary functions could also be the MGU for the turbo (Motor Generator Unit). This is a electric motor coupled to the turbo to make spool up faster and regenerate exhaust energy when used as a boost controller instead of the wastegate. Will be used on F1 engines next year and BMW has patented a electrically assisted turbo. A lightweight battery pack would be an essential part of such a system...
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2013, 02:08 PM   #97
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
7506
Rep
19,370
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
Auxilliary functions could also be the MGU for the turbo (Motor Generator Unit). This is a electric motor coupled to the turbo to make spool up faster and regenerate exhaust energy when used as a boost controller instead of the wastegate. Will be used on F1 engines next year and BMW has patented a electrically assisted turbo. A lightweight battery pack would be an essential part of such a system...
Right. That is exactly what I was getting at.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2013, 02:15 PM   #98
solstice
Major General
5457
Rep
7,037
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Right. That is exactly what I was getting at.
I understand it's the future but I hope you guys are wrong about an electrical turbo. Not a deal breaker at all but I'm keeping my fingers crossed for convential turbos wether it's a 2 or 3 turbo system. 2 tiny turbos for quick spool up with a larger top range supporting blower would be cool. I would prefer that to a more complex less tested electrical setup at this point in time. Maybe bring the electrical stuff to a main stream car first. I'll take whatever they come up with for the engine but prefer if it's not to much elctrical assisted stuff.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2013, 02:22 PM   #99
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
7506
Rep
19,370
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsweet View Post
That's it. Based on that official info, the M4 has already lost against the GT-R (present, past and future).

...

This car will be an efficient, fast souped up 335i but no contender among the greats.
But I'll bet it does just fine against its true competition, even those with AWD such as next the S5 and C Class AMG coupe (assuming it gets AWD as rumored). There are some pretty fine automobiles out there without AWD to make them a "contender among the greats" such as a Corvette Z06 or 911 GT3. Not bad company to be in.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2013, 02:27 PM   #100
fuddman
Major
353
Rep
1,401
Posts

Drives: 528-maybe
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by needabeemer View Post
....the m4 wont be AVAILABLE until over a year from now, but it will be revealed in just a few months... doesnt anyone see my gripe with this?
Yep, see your problem clearly. But you may have hit on the answer in your post. Try the C63 AMG 507 edition. Should be about the same price and a short wait.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2013, 03:43 PM   #101
GOLFFRR
GOLFFRR's Avatar
10687
Rep
27,506
Posts

Drives: GOLFFRR cart
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: we sell BMWs to "ALL" US states

iTrader: (4)

awesome! im getting excited as the days get closer!
__________________

BEFORE YOU BUY YOUR NEXT BMW, PM ME FIRST WE CAN HOOK YOU UP!
Jimmy Miller:Jimmym@bmwofcamarillo.com Cell:805-509-2048
If you have any issues getting a hold of Jimmy M PLEASE PM me, I'm available everyday till 545pm!
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2013, 03:48 PM   #102
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
609
Rep
10,407
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (3)

A tidbit of very positive news here IMO.

Couldn't Nitschke though at least got the correct redline for the current M5, it is not 7400 rpm as he stated, it is 7200 rpm. An simply inexcusable error in my evaluation.

Quote:
FN: Absolutely. We will use lightweight parts in the places where it matters, at the ends of the car and high up, and in high-rpm parts of the powertrain. A carbon fiber roof, of course, and aluminum and magnesium and carbon fiber in the crash zones. An aluminum hood, and a new carbon fiber trunk lid.
Although high up (roof) the current car already has a CF roof and also has an aluminum hood. I bore easily of folks resting on their laurels in this way. Also the current car already has composite bumper components (ends). It also has made extensive use of hollow components in both the engine/drive train and chassis to manage weight gain (notice how I don't say to achieve light weight).

Now that we have the "nothing new here" aside. The CF and magnesium in crash zones and the CF trunk lid are indeed both new and positive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamspeed View Post
The M4 will be lighter than the 435 according to the interview but is he trying to be sneaky by saying a bare bones no option M4 will be lighter than a fully loaded 435? There is a big difference in weight between a no option vs. optioned out car
I would not put that past BMW for one second.
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2013, 04:16 PM   #103
Boss330
Major General
Boss330's Avatar
No_Country
1712
Rep
5,108
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
A tidbit of very positive news here IMO.

Couldn't Nitschke though at least got the correct redline for the current M5, it is not 7400 rpm as he stated, it is 7200 rpm. An simply inexcusable error in my evaluation.



Although high up (roof) the current car already has a CF roof and also has an aluminum hood. I bore easily of folks resting on their laurels in this way. Also the current car already has composite bumper components (ends). It also has made extensive use of hollow components in both the engine/drive train and chassis to manage weight gain (notice how I don't say to achieve light weight).

Now that we have the "nothing new here" aside. The CF and magnesium in crash zones and the CF trunk lid are indeed both new and positive.



I would not put that past BMW for one second.
When it comes to the redline, remember that there has been a journalist and probably others involved in WRITING the text that is in the interview. It might not be accurate in regards as to what Nitschke said. I'm more willing to blame the journo, or whomever wrote the article, than the head of BMW M for this mistake...

As regards the weight saving, he's just stating that next gen will continue with some of the allready implemented measures, as well as introducing some really significant new ones. Surely, that's not resting on the laurels is it?

Are you saying they should abandon CF roof since the E9x allready has it? Or NOT use weight saving components in the engine, since that allready has been done?

Until we get final specs it's hard to evaluate how far BMW has gone or how much further they have pushed the envelope compared with the E9X M3. Still a bit early to dismiss or applaud the next gen yet. But, some positive signs in that interview IMHO
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2013, 04:20 PM   #104
pkimM3r
Banned
pkimM3r's Avatar
205
Rep
7,298
Posts

Drives: m3 saloon in granny mode.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lost angeles

iTrader: (0)

Why does everyone call the n54/5 classic i6?

Its TURBO. Big difference. The sound is from the exhaust. Not the engine.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2013, 05:06 PM   #105
hwelvaar
Major
Belgium
112
Rep
1,140
Posts

Drives: BMW M135i MT
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsweet View Post
That's it. Based on that official info, the M4 has already lost against the GT-R (present, past and future).
They're not meant to be rivals. Comparing apples and oranges....
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2013, 05:18 PM   #106
hwelvaar
Major
Belgium
112
Rep
1,140
Posts

Drives: BMW M135i MT
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by needabeemer View Post

i already know what some will say. "just get an m4 then" ...its not that easy. the m4 wont be AVAILABLE until over a year from now, but it will be revealed in just a few months... doesnt anyone see my gripe with this? its going to be a tease when a customer gets the brand new 435i delivered in september, only to have it ruined in january by a much more aggressive looking model.
So you're not into the 'driving', you're just into the "I have the latest/best/coolest" and you're jealous the instant something better comes along?

The economy loves that mindset though. Otherwise Apple (and the likes) couldn't bring out a new version of the same product every year...
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2013, 05:24 PM   #107
Boss330
Major General
Boss330's Avatar
No_Country
1712
Rep
5,108
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
Why does everyone call the n54/5 classic i6?

Its TURBO. Big difference. The sound is from the exhaust. Not the engine.
Engine configuration makes a BIG difference to the sound. That's why a 4 cyl turbo doesn't sound like a turbo 6 cyl, but still sounds like a 4 cyl...
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2013, 06:33 PM   #108
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
609
Rep
10,407
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
When it comes to the redline, remember that there has been a journalist and probably others involved in WRITING the text that is in the interview. It might not be accurate in regards as to what Nitschke said. I'm more willing to blame the journo, or whomever wrote the article, than the head of BMW M for this mistake...
I say more likely a simple mistake/brain fart rather than blaming the journalist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
As regards the weight saving, he's just stating that next gen will continue with some of the allready implemented measures, as well as introducing some really significant new ones. Surely, that's not resting on the laurels is it?

Are you saying they should abandon CF roof since the E9x allready has it? Or NOT use weight saving components in the engine, since that allready has been done?

Until we get final specs it's hard to evaluate how far BMW has gone or how much further they have pushed the envelope compared with the E9X M3. Still a bit early to dismiss or applaud the next gen yet. But, some positive signs in that interview IMHO
Nothing wrong with repeating what already works. It just sounds to me to be a of regurgitation of the past and yes, resting on ones laurels. I could be reading too much into it but the norm in such discussions is to speak with a large to entire focus on the new things and he clearly isn't.

I'm not dismissing the car, not dismissing their weight savings efforts. I'd virtually guarantee the car will be lighter than the E92 M3 but likley won't be lighter than the 435i (truly apples to apples) and almost for sure nor lighter than 3300 curb. I've also stated many times that I'd also be willing to be that the car will continue its absolute class dominating position.
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2013, 08:04 PM   #109
chmura
Colonel
chmura's Avatar
1554
Rep
2,503
Posts

Drives: 2019 M2 Competition
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Orange County, California

iTrader: (1)

Hope this engine produces 450+ hp stock.

If Mercedes AMG can produce 355hp from their 2.0L 4 cylinder turbo than BMW should not have to try to hard to get 450hp from I6 turbo.
Appreciate 0
      07-20-2013, 08:14 PM   #110
zuggerat89
Still waiting...
zuggerat89's Avatar
United_States
25
Rep
887
Posts

Drives: OGV
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Monmouth County, NJ

iTrader: (0)

Jason, where did bimmerpost find the F82 pictures for this article on the front page? Are there more?
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
2014 bmw m3, 2014 m3, 2014 m3 forum, 2015 bmw m3, 2015 bmw m4, 2015 m3, 2015 m4, bmw f80, bmw f80 forum, bmw f80 forums, bmw f80 m3, bmw f80 m3 sedan, bmw f82, bmw f82 forum, bmw f82 forums, bmw f82 m3, bmw f82 m3 coupe, bmw f82 m3 forum, bmw f82 m4, bmw f82 m4 coupe, bmw f83, bmw f83 m3, bmw f83 m4, bmw m forum, bmw m forums, bmw m4, bmw m4 coupe, bmw m4 coupe forum, bmw m4 forum, bmw m4 forums, f80, f80 forum, f80 forums, f80 m3, f80 m3 forum, f80 m3 forums, f80 m3 sedan, f82, f82 coupe, f82 forum, f82 forums, f82 m3, f82 m3 coupe, f82 m3 forum, f82 m4, f82 m4 coupe, f82 m4 forum, f82 m4 forums, f83 m3, f83 m4, m forum, m forums, m3 f80, m3 f80 forum, m3 f80 forums, m4 forum, m4 forums

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:17 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST