Official F8X Track Alignment Specifications

[Bon F80]

Originally Posted by F80Speed77

I'm still seeing more outside shoulder wear than inside wear with -4.0deg.

are u running slicks? i ran -3.3 degrees camber for 2 track days before (my F80 is mostly stock apart from tires and KW Clubsport 2-way) and the front inside shoulders were wearing faster than the outside's.

[Bon F80]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Might have more even wear at slightly higher pressures (mid-30's), but should really consider bouncing from Cup 2. This spec is just not durable enough for hard running session after session fitted to M3/M4. Fighting a losing battle, imo

what tires would you suggest? limited by my wheels, i need F: 265/35-19 and R: 285/30-20

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Pong

what tires would you suggest? limited by my wheels, i need F: 265/35-19 and R: 285/30-20

That's GTS sizing. Running Supercar 3R, OE sizes were just added in the last couple of months. Faster than star spec Cup 2 and a big step up in durability. $100 rebate right now too https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...S&autoModClar=

(Haven't run them in wet conditions yet. Safe to assume not good.)

[bimmerboyE92]

Originally Posted by Pong

are u running slicks? i ran -3.3 degrees camber for 2 track days before (my F80 is mostly stock apart from tires and KW Clubsport 2-way) and the front inside shoulders were wearing faster than the outside's.

I'm sorry to say but if you were getting inside shoulder wear at -3.3 you weren't driving fast enough. At -3.5 on RE71Rs, I had to flip RE71Rs after 2 days to even out the wear. I'd be lucky to get 4-5 days total out of the fronts.

[bimmerboyE92]

Got the alignment done.

-4.2 in front! Had to slot the TC camber plate on one side so they would be equal. Otherwise, there would have been a 0.5deg difference. SPL rear toe arms were worth it! No wiggle from the rear on acceleration anymore! Getting the rear end out feels more stable and throttle modulation does what's it's supposed to rather than SURPRISE rear is stepping out or we've got grip.

Too much camber?.. maybe. But it felt great on NCM's skidpad even in the damp. Track test coming soon! The front end just gripped for days. The rear was first to give up but it was smooth, predictable, and very compliant. If dry track testing proves the rear to feel too loose, I'll back the rebound setting down in the rear. It's almost full stiff right now to help the front feel less pushy.

I do have (2) data points of other "race" cars running -4 deg of camber up front. The first is F80Speed77 on GC plates with stock dampers I believe. And the second is scottn2retro with his M4 club racer running TCK plates at -4.4deg +/- .15 with MCS dampers.

Given more time, the F8X chassis will get more and more transformations into dedicated track machines. And if history proves correct with this chassis as the ones prior, -4.0--4.5 camber on dedicated track cars will be normal.

IMG_7197 by D S, on Flickr

IMG_7196 by D S, on Flickr

IMG_7195 by D S, on Flickr

IMG_7194 by D S, on Flickr

[F80Speed77]

Nice! Definitely keep posting up the feedback, I think -3.5-4.5 is going to be ideal range when you really start pushing this platform. Which MCS are you on and what spring rates? Any sway bars?

I was in the same boat as you on the RE71R so good to hear similar experiences on that tire!

[bimmerboyE92]

Originally Posted by F80Speed77

Nice! Definitely keep posting up the feedback, I think -3.5-4.5 is going to be ideal range when you really start pushing this platform. Which MCS are you on and what spring rates? Any sway bars?

I was in the same boat as you on the RE71R so good to hear similar experiences on that tire!

-3.5 just wasn't enough even on Toyo RRs with really stiff side walls. In the end, I feel that -3.9 might be optimal as not all tracks need as much camber as NCM. My e36 on RE71Rs with -3.75 is no where close to enough.

I'm on TC Kline DAs 350/600. H&R sway in front only on mid-setting. Car is very low and I worry about being on the bump stops too much. Will tackle ride height and corner balance once I finalize camber and damper settings.

TC Kine himself drove this car at NCM and is helping with dialing it in.

The shop that does my alignment run the K-swap Miatas at gridlife.

[F80Speed77]

Oh wow we have pretty close setups other than you having better dampers haha. I think passives might be on the list for next year.

I'm running 450F/650R now with the H&R on the front in the low setting.

[bimmerboyE92]

Originally Posted by F80Speed77

Oh wow we have pretty close setups other than you having better dampers haha. I think passives might be on the list for next year.

I'm running 450F/650R now with the H&R on the front in the low setting.

There are lot of naysayers, and there is definitely newer tech out there. But I feel Koni makes the best bang for shock that lasts. Everyone started at Koni (in the Netherlands). JRZ, MCS, Moton, and more all have made in the Netherlands. That's because they all came from Koni. And the reason they have huge diameter shafts and/or fluid reservoirs and high pressure nitro filled shocks??? It's because Koni uses a proprietary shock fluid that they won't sell to anybody else. The others use high presure nitro and large diameter shock bodies with reservoirs to reduce their oil from foaming. Koni shock oil doesn't foam that badly. A Koni shock last longer because there are no seals to degrade and leak high pressure nitro. That's why TC Kline coils are known to last 60,000 miles on the street with track use. Others gotta be rebuilt once a year. Most won't believe me, I'm just another guy behind a computer monitor. Point is, if you go with passive dampers, consider Koni. Definitely DO NOT get Bilstein!

[Bon F80]

Originally Posted by bimmerboyE92

I'm sorry to say but if you were getting inside shoulder wear at -3.3 you weren't driving fast enough. At -3.5 on RE71Rs, I had to flip RE71Rs after 2 days to even out the wear. I'd be lucky to get 4-5 days total out of the fronts.

Thx bimmerboyE92. I thought -2.4 to -2.7 degree front camber has been most commonly shared within this thread (in the earlier posts). Nevertheless, I believe driving style, track characteristics, tires, among others, would definitely play a role in how much camber one actually needs.

I've read the build thread from you/your wife. I guess (hope) I'm not that much slower than you/your wife. Anyway, I do agree I've not yet been able to maximize my car's full potential, there's still a lot to learn!

[bimmerboyE92]

Originally Posted by Pong

Thx bimmerboyE92. I thought -2.4 to -2.7 degree front camber has been most commonly shared within this thread (in the earlier posts). Nevertheless, I believe driving style, track characteristics, tires, among others, would definitely play a role in how much camber one actually needs.

I've read the build thread from you/your wife. I guess (hope) I'm not that much slower than you/your wife. Anyway, I do agree I've not yet been able to maximize my car's full potential, there's still a lot to learn!

Yes, different tracks need different setups. Most people say -2.5 because they still drive the car on the street, even if only to the track. -3.3 will wear the inside edge if you drive on street. Glad your out There running on track! Soon you’ll be talking about tire wear in days if not sessions instead of months and thousands of miles.

And if you’re running at Mosport, that’s a “big boy” track so learn the line, driving line over everything. Don’t look at lap times, drive the line until you know it by heart.

[aswy6]

Hey everyone. Is this kind of wear possible with -1.8 camber and zero toe? I have an appointment tomorrow to go from -1.8 to -2.3 because i feel like -1.8 is not enough on track. I have been on -1.8 for 3 months and about 1.5k miles. Now im thinking this is not a good idea. What do you think?

[Suds]

I would be looking on the outside of the tire for wear.
When the rain groove disappears you will start wearing into the side wall.
These were stock Michelin tires. I wanted to run as a baseline before moding my 2019 ZCP.

Here is a picture of my RE71’s on my ‘15 M4 while I was killing them.

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by Suds

I would be looking on the outside of the tire for wear.
When the rain groove disappears you will start wearing into the side wall.
These were stock Michelin tires. I wanted to run as a baseline before moding my 2019 ZCP.

Here is a picture of my RE71’s on my ‘15 M4 while I was killing them.

I only track about 3-4 times per year and my goal is to find a good balance between street and track. In this case, can -1.8 cause the kind of inner wear im observing or no? This is my outer edge so it also wearing a little bit faster

[Suds]

I had camber plates installed on my ‘19 this past week and had the front camber set at -2.5 degrees. This was a pretty good setting on my ‘15 M4 for a street / track setting on RE71’s.

At the end of the day it’s how hard you want to run your car on a track day. This shit isn’t cheap if you want to drive hard and chase a fast lap time.

[Suds]

Yes you will be getting inner tire wear, I believe stock front negative camber is -1.29 degree. So if most of your driving is soft on cornering the inside of the tires will wear faster than desired.

Truth, tires are consumable. It’s hard to balance the negative camber needed to wear out the entire tire surface, especially with a street / track setting.

While I’m at the track, I usual take pictures of my front tires after each track session to visually track tire wear. This also makes me aware of blisters or chucking on the tires.

As a reference, 3 days at COTA driving hard with with -2.4 degrees of front camber I blistered the outside corner on New RE71’s. Probably less than 300 or so miles.

Originally Posted by aswy6

I only track about 3-4 times per year and my goal is to find a good balance between street and track. In this case, can -1.8 cause the kind of inner wear im observing or no? This is my outer edge so it also wearing a little bit faster

[aswy6]

Talked to my allingment shop and they told me that -1.8 and zero toe is very agressive for street use and will cause severe inner wear. I dont know how you guys are running -2 and more camber on street. I killed my front tire inner edge in like 1.5k miles

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by Suds

I had camber plates installed on my '19 this past week and had the front camber set at -2.5 degrees. This was a pretty good setting on my '15 M4 for a street / track setting on RE71's.

At the end of the day it's how hard you want to run your car on a track day. This shit isn't cheap if you want to drive hard and chase a fast lap time.

Bottom line, do you think i should be okay running these front tires for one more track day with this kind of inner edge wear?

[Bon F80]

Originally Posted by aswy6

Bottom line, do you think i should be okay running these front tires for one more track day with this kind of inner edge wear?

i guess it depends on how hard you will go on the track. at the track, especially with little or stock negative camber settings, the concern should be more on the outer shoulder rather than inner's.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by aswy6

Talked to my allingment shop and they told me that -1.8 and zero toe is very agressive for street use and will cause severe inner wear. I dont know how you guys are running -2 and more camber on street. I killed my front tire inner edge in like 1.5k miles

I drive my M3 CS to the track, occasional canyon runs, and the weekly errand just to start the car. Maybe if you are daily driving it, you could mark off the camber plates for street and track.

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by Pong

i guess it depends on how hard you will go on the track. at the track, especially with little or stock negative camber settings, the concern should be more on the outer shoulder rather than inner's.

I agree, i am not after being the fastest guy out there so outer shoulder wear is not as much of a concern. What concerns me is the inner shoulder right now because i dont want it to cord 3 sessions into or before track. How far away is the cord in this case and should i just use this tire for my next track day on September 5th?

[Bon F80]

@aswy6 , FYR, this was the outer shoulder of my previous PSS on stock alignment. there was no sign of cord yet, but the missing chunks got me worried.