Evolve x Bilstein B6 Damptronic Dampers F80 M F82 M4 F83 M4

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by chipper1

Matt, yes they are the evolve version and springs both installed new at same time. eibach number EIBE10-20-037-01-22 I have spent so must money on this car I am really starting to hate it, been working all weekend every weekend on it. still sitting 70mm high in the front. I don't have a 4 post lift to untorque the suspension under a load.. my pvc just went out on me and started that squeal sound. Just awesome

Ride height looks like a case where shipping blocks weren’t removed during the PDI. Any picks of your car on stock springs and dampers?

[Aeko]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

From the pictures I don’t see what appears to be ~0.4” difference but I bet it’s noticeable in person. Why didn’t you swap in a set of springs that provide a small drop in height?

Unfortunate side effect of running a monotube damper - high gas pressure needed to prevent cavitation in the damper fluid

Because I spend more time driving my car than looking at it. Jokes aside I like making incremental changes, springs are next. Since the stock M2C suspension wasn't what I was looking for and I retrofitted EDC I wanted to keep the springs the same to give a true comparison of the dampers and EDC system.

I also havent decided on a set of springs yet because I don't really want a huge drop and I'm not sure I want progressive springs either. Still trying to make that call.

Honestly the worst part about the high gas pressure is it makes the rears impossible to install without getting creative with zip ties to pre-compress it for installation.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Aeko

Because I spend more time driving my car than looking at it. Jokes aside I like making incremental changes, springs are next. Since the stock M2C suspension wasn't what I was looking for and I retrofitted EDC I wanted to keep the springs the same to give a true comparison of the dampers and EDC system.

I also havent decided on a set of springs yet because I don't really want a huge drop and I'm not sure I want progressive springs either. Still trying to make that call.

Honestly the worst part about the high gas pressure is it makes the rears impossible to install without getting creative with zip ties to pre-compress it for installation.

It’s always best to make one change at a time so you know +/- what this change has on performance. So you’ve got a solid approach. Unfortunately in the past I’ve thrown the entire kitchen sink in at once.

Unfortunately with the Bilstein B6 welded on lower spring seats it eliminates all of the HAS options except for MSS. Professional race cars are set up with tender springs in series with the main spring so the combined spring rate is:
Keq=Kt*Km/(Kt+Km) - a progressive spring rate (progressive because Km >>> Kt). Progressive allows you to run softer in the straights and stiffer in the corners.

[Aeko]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

It’s always best to make one change at a time so you know +/- what this change has on performance. So you’ve got a solid approach. Unfortunately in the past I’ve thrown the entire kitchen sink in at once.

Unfortunately with the Bilstein B6 welded on lower spring seats it eliminates all of the HAS options except for MSS. Professional race cars are set up with tender springs in series with the main spring so the combined spring rate is:
Keq=Kt*Km/(Kt+Km) - a progressive spring rate (progressive because Km >>> Kt). Progressive allows you to run softer in the straights and stiffer in the corners.

Yep that's the approach I'm going for.

Are the MSS the only stock-style HAS then? I hadn't looked too deeply into it.

These dampers can be used with stock or any lowering springs on the market that work with stock dampers, including MSS Adjustable Springs. They will not work with KW Adjustable Springs/MPHAS.

I'd be interested in the MSS kit but I haven't found any data on spring rates.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Aeko

Yep that's the approach I'm going for.

Are the MSS the only stock-style HAS then? I hadn't looked too deeply into it.



I'd be interested in the MSS kit but I haven't found any data on spring rates.

The best approach is to spend money only once on a part/thing so always purchase the best product you can afford or wait a bit longer to get the right product; e.g., only buy the exhaust, wheels, suspension, etc. once. I’ve been guilty of charged.l by not following this philosophy.

MSS is designed to mount directly onto Evole/Bilstein B6 (or other Bilstein BMW F8x) dampers. All other kits require that you remove the lower spring seats and replace it with their threaded spring seat mount. All HAS kits require the removal of the or lower seat mount lower spring seat.

MSS refuses to release their spring rates because of their triple progressive rates. All you need to do is put the sprig in a spring tester and direly measure their force-deflection curve.

[Aeko]

Originally Posted by chipper1

I don't have a 4 post lift to untorque the suspension under a load

I loaded each corner with a floor jack under the brake disc while torquing and it worked fine for me. I could be wrong but IMO you don't really need to get it at the exact ride height, you just need to avoid tightening certain bushings and suspension components at full droop.

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

MSS refuses to release their spring rates because of their triple diggresive rates. All you need to do is put the sprig in a spring tester and direly measure their force-deflection curve.

Digressive or progressive? Their verbiage seems to indicate progressive.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Aeko

Digressive or progressive? Their verbiage seems to indicate progressive.

You are correct. Fixed it above - thanks! Their spring rate is progressive, not digressive. Not an excuse but I had been looking at a digressive damper plot earlier today

[Matt@Evolve]

Originally Posted by chipper1

Matt, yes they are the evolve version and springs both installed new at same time. eibach number EIBE10-20-037-01-22 I have spent so must money on this car I am really starting to hate it, been working all weekend every weekend on it. still sitting 70mm high in the front. I don't have a 4 post lift to untorque the suspension under a load.. my pvc just went out on me and started that squeal sound. Just awesome

I'll drop you a DM.

[RElias21]

Originally Posted by Imran@Evolve

I would say it sits about 5mm higher. The damper is not longer. Bilstein say this is due to a combination of the the damper needing to settle and also taking into account any sag that the car having them fitted to has had over time.

With MSS the problem is accentuated because of the height of the rubber seat. I am working with them to provide a solution to this for those who want to go even lower.

Imran@Evolve , has anything come of this with MSS? Is this still in the works to help the car sit a little lower?

[RElias21]

[QUOTE=RElias21;30750607]Imran@Evolve , has anything come of this with MSS? Is this still in the works to help the car sit a little lower?

I recently installed the Evolve-Bilstein dampers and the MSS springs in view of Inram’s opinion that the MSS springs are the number one option with these dampers, performance-wise. I need more seat time (and better weather) to provide meaningful performance feedback, though first impressions are positive.

I have my front height set to the lowest possible, and would ideally prefer to have it just a touch lower. So, prospective solution you had previously spoken of Imran@Evolve would be of particular interest to me. Any updates?

The rears can still go lower if desired.

The viewing angle here really makes a difference in stance appearance.

[McIntoshMotorSports]

[QUOTE=RElias21;30787879]

Originally Posted by RElias21

Imran@Evolve , has anything come of this with MSS? Is this still in the works to help the car sit a little lower?

I recently installed the Evolve-Bilstein dampers and the MSS springs in view of Inram’s opinion that the MSS springs are the number one option with these dampers, performance-wise. I need more seat time (and better weather) to provide meaningful performance feedback, though first impressions are positive.

I have my front height set to the lowest possible, and would ideally prefer to have it just a touch lower. So, prospective solution you had previously spoken of Imran@Evolve would be of particular interest to me. Any updates?

The rears can still go lower if desired.

The viewing angle here really makes a difference in stance appearance.

Is this on 19s? Rear is perfect for me but wish the front could go just so ever slightly lower. I’ve had flush fitment before but prefer the wheels to evenly fill out the arches.

[M3SQRD]

[QUOTE=RElias21;30787879]

Originally Posted by RElias21

Imran@Evolve , has anything come of this with MSS? Is this still in the works to help the car sit a little lower?

I recently installed the Evolve-Bilstein dampers and the MSS springs in view of Inram’s opinion that the MSS springs are the number one option with these dampers, performance-wise. I need more seat time (and better weather) to provide meaningful performance feedback, though first impressions are positive.

I have my front height set to the lowest possible, and would ideally prefer to have it just a touch lower. So, prospective solution you had previously spoken of Imran@Evolve would be of particular interest to me. Any updates?

The rears can still go lower if desired.

The viewing angle here really makes a difference in stance appearance.

Car looks good at the current ride height. If you were to get your car corner balanced, it’ll have a similar rake. Lowering the front too much relative to the rear the car will oversteer at the limit. A little lower in the front is ok but when people run the front with <= 1 finger gap that’s too low and too much forward rake.

[RElias21]

I’m not a fan of forward rake. The rears have some room to drop still, but I think they sit perfect now. I’m not a fan of the tucked look. I’m pretty satisfied with the stance, though maybe a touch lower in the front would have been great. I’m just shy of a two finger gap in the front at the moment.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by RElias21

I’m not a fan of forward rake. The rears have some room to drop still, but I think they sit perfect now. I’m not a fan of the tucked look. I’m pretty satisfied with the stance, though maybe a touch lower in the front would have been great. I’m just shy of a two finger gap in the front at the moment.

Here’s what my car looks like corner balanced on MCS 2WR suspension (F/R 700/1000 lbf/in spring rates)

[Imran@Evolve]

[QUOTE=RElias21;30787879]

Originally Posted by RElias21

Imran@Evolve , has anything come of this with MSS? Is this still in the works to help the car sit a little lower?

I recently installed the Evolve-Bilstein dampers and the MSS springs in view of Inram’s opinion that the MSS springs are the number one option with these dampers, performance-wise. I need more seat time (and better weather) to provide meaningful performance feedback, though first impressions are positive.

I have my front height set to the lowest possible, and would ideally prefer to have it just a touch lower. So, prospective solution you had previously spoken of Imran@Evolve would be of particular interest to me. Any updates?

The rears can still go lower if desired.

The viewing angle here really makes a difference in stance appearance.

Something I'm revisting with them this year.

[Deteria]

Originally Posted by RElias21

I really am leaning to trying this setup, and my only concern is the ride hide (though I don’t slam my cars).
Is the height in your picture the max drop with the MSS springs, or could they have gone any lower?

Here is an example of my current stance on MP-HAS. I would not want to be higher.

I am pretty sure I could go lower if I wanted to. I just told the shop to drop just a tad vs factory stance, and they said there was more room to play with if I wanted lower. Ultimately settled for a tiny drop since it's not logical to slam the car and risk destroying the lip and I just wanted the car to look even w/out rake.

The thing people need to keep in mind is the wheel / tire size vs factory diameter. Car comes ###/35/19 or ###/40/18. Dropping to smaller profile will give the appearance of more gap. Currently no issues w/ height adjustability with MSS HAS running ###/35/19 setup.

[Matt@Evolve]

Originally Posted by Matt@Evolve

I'll drop you a DM.

Just to update everyone reading the thread I never got a DM, so hoping the owner figured out the issue and has resolved it.