Truth about using Kickdown?

deeldoo · 05-30-2020, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeldoo

It takes a very short time to drop the car into gear but during that time you are essentially lugging the engine at high load, while with a regular manual you have to first select and then go.

No you're not. Re-read my post: both clutches open as they engine goes WOT, no lugging going on

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeldoo

It takes a very short time to drop the car into gear but during that time you are essentially lugging the engine at high load, while with a regular manual you have to first select and then go.

No you're not. Re-read my post: both clutches open as they engine goes WOT, no lugging going on

.

As you go WOT, if you are slowly easing into WOT then what? Are you sure mechanically it behaves like that?

CanAutM3 · 05-30-2020, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeldoo

As you go WOT, if you are slowly easing into WOT then what?

If one wants to accelerate quickly, one would likely not "ease on the throttle...

But anyhow, how different is it than going WOT while staying in 7th

?

As long as the engine revs are decently high (above 1500-1800rpm), I don't see any issue with that. The DCT is smart enough to know, if the revs are too low to cause engine lugging, it will downshift automatically regardless of Drivelogic mode. I like to use that low end S55 torque

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeldoo

Are you sure mechanically it behaves like that?

How else would it work?

deeldoo · 05-30-2020, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeldoo

As you go WOT, if you are slowly easing into WOT then what? Are you sure mechanically it behaves like that?

OK, but how different is it that going WOT while in 7th

?

If you are WOT in 7th at 2k rpm start that is pretty bad, high load, low rpm.

If you are WOT doing 150 mph in 7th you are in your power band but are in a very stressful situation peaking on a pull.

I think either way kick-down is stressful on the engine.

CanAutM3 · 05-30-2020, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeldoo

If you are WOT in 7th at 2k rpm start that is pretty bad, high load, low rpm.

If you are WOT doing 150 mph in 7th you are in your power band but are in a very stressful situation peaking on a pull.

I think either way kick-down is stressful on the engine.

I was still editing my previous post, sorry. The S55 is more than capable of handling that load at that rpm. The DCT is smart enough that it will downshift automatically if the revs would cause engine lugging regardless of selected Drivelogic mode.

65fastback · 05-30-2020, 11:31 AM

FYI to the young guys here....the invent of the "passing gear" better known as "kickdown linkage" has been on automatic transmissions since at least the 1950s.

65fastback · 05-30-2020, 12:08 PM

The main reason i made this thread...( if you read my OG post) is i wanted to know if people are getting a SCH on NON tuned cars and...if so is using the kickdown causing it?

Some people here talk about the kickdown on our DCT cars as if it shouldn't be used.

I understand these cars a "de tuned " off the shelf but....once you add 100+ HP to any car other systems become taxed and require upgrading drive line/Trans/brakes/fuel volume/ ect ect ect.

This is where using the kickdown comes into play on a tuned car....but non tuned cars i suspect there is ZERO issues caused by using it from time to time.

deli333 · 05-30-2020, 12:10 PM

I am shocked because of the posts I have read. I thought the fun part of driving M is using kick down especially in efficient mode. I can't believe many of the guys don't even use this.
bang the kickdown, let the car scream, feel all the torque and continue with manual shifting. I do it all the time when I feel bored. It is maybe the main reason I choose this car over its same range rivals. I have been doing it very very frequently in 2014 m4, and continue to do so. i'll let you guys if I fail it.
I asked this to an experienced garage when I bought the car. I said I use kickdown etc alot what maintenance/failures should I expect? He said dct, turbos and something about diff. He didnt even mention the engine, I don't know why.

edit : car is not tuned, 78000 miles.

MNR · 05-30-2020, 12:11 PM

I use kickdown daily on my stock F80. Don’t want to click the paddle 4-5 times when I want to pass. Kickdown is far more violent too. No issues thus far and am not worried in the slightest bit.

F82///M · 05-30-2020, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNR

I use kickdown daily on my stock F80. Don’t want to click the paddle 4-5 times when I want to pass. Kickdown is far more violent too. No issues thus far and am not worried in the slightest bit.

Kick down in manual mode and one paddle pull does the trick as well, no need for down shifting individual gears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I was still editing my previous post, sorry. The S55 is more than capable of handling that load at that rpm. The DCT is smart enough that it will downshift automatically if the revs would cause engine lugging regardless of selected Drivelogic mode.

Exactly and everything happens so quick.

All these lugging believers talk like this engine is 750cc with 29hp and 15NM of torque paired with this 7 speed DCT and no sophisticated ECU's.

jpy1980 · 05-30-2020, 02:37 PM

I have a manual F80 so I’m not too sure, but what is kickdown?

CanAutM3 · 05-30-2020, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpy1980

I have a manual F80 so I’m not too sure, but what is kickdown?

It's a feature on most automatic transmission that allows to promptly downshift to the lowest possible gear when the accelerator is floored. Usually there is a detent that can be felt and that needs to be engaged at the end of the accelerator pedal travel.

jpy1980 · 05-30-2020, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

It's a feature on most automatic transmission that allows to promptly downshift to the lowest possible gear when the accelerator is floored. Usually there is a detent that can be felt and that needs to be engaged at the end of the accelerator pedal travel.

Ah the go button! Haha. Ok thanks for the clarification

CanAutM3 · 05-30-2020, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpy1980

Ah the go button! Haha. Ok thanks for the clarification

More commonly referred to as the "kickdown button", but hey, you can call it whatever you want

.

BzsBimmer · 05-31-2020, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I personally do not believe that SCH failures are transmission related. Of the 887 forum SCH survey respondents to date, 10.3% of DCT and 10.3% of 6MT have suffered a SCH, an exact match. The vast majority are modified though with 85% of the reported SCH being on modified cars. On stock cars, there are 3.9% reported SCH failures on 6MT and 2.8% on DCT.

The vast majority of owners that have not suffered a SCH will not have voted on this survey, which artificially inflates the numbers, so the probability of it happening is actually much lower than this.

If you enjoy the kickdown feature, use it as you please

Agree...
Didn’t even make the list either
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...d-what-to-buy/

bodega_bladerunner · 06-02-2020, 10:47 AM

Isn't double tapping the paddle the same as the kickdown switch?

CanAutM3 · 06-02-2020, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenc51

Isn't double tapping the paddle the same as the kickdown switch?

No. Double tapping the left paddle will downshift two gears (rpm permitting). Kickdown will downshift to the lowest possible gear.

deli333 · 06-02-2020, 01:00 PM

do other rivals have similiar kickdown like rs5, c63s etc. do they make noise and hit you back to seat?

icegrill · 06-02-2020, 01:58 PM

Daddy can I use my kick down today!??

1stockf80 · 06-02-2020, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

I used the kickdown feature at will on all three of the F80s I owned. I even used it on one of my tuned cars. If you're worried about SCH, get a different car.

Exactly. I pay a lot of money for this car. Not to mention this feature comes with the car. You bet I will use it. Car is always driven in sports plus and if it cannot handle the added stress that comes with normal driving around town then Bmw should address that. Not going to baby a 80k car that I bought to enjoy responsibly.

papasmurf_m3 · 06-02-2020, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1stockf80

Exactly. I pay a lot of money for this car. Not to mention this feature comes with the car. You bet I will use it. Car is always driven in sports plus and if it cannot handle the added stress that comes with normal driving around town then Bmw should address that. Not going to baby a 80k car that I bought to enjoy responsibly.

I was writing my response. Then I deleted it all after reading this response because, it was exactly the same. lol

deli333 · 06-02-2020, 06:57 PM

how many of you guys use this to let other people know that you came home?

XsltAnalyst · 06-02-2020, 10:12 PM

I can't believe what I read here sometimes. What's next, we shouldn't brake too hard cause it can get too hot? It's not launch control we're talking about, it's simply an everyday function of the car we're discussing here.

I believe engineers who designed and built this drivetrain spent tens of thousands of hours tweaking programming multiple ECUs to handle pretty much all scenarios in a safe manner.

WOT puts the car into a maximum attack mode, regardless of throttle or other settings. It's simply a myth saying kickdown is harder on the (stock) engine vs manual downshifting.

05-30-2020, 11:31 AM	#27
65fastback Captain 1137 Rep 822 Posts Drives: every day Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: seattle iTrader: (2)	FYI to the young guys here....the invent of the "passing gear" better known as "kickdown linkage" has been on automatic transmissions since at least the 1950s.
	Appreciate 1 c12h231.00 Quote

05-30-2020, 12:08 PM	#28
65fastback Captain 1137 Rep 822 Posts Drives: every day Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: seattle iTrader: (2)	The main reason i made this thread...( if you read my OG post) is i wanted to know if people are getting a SCH on NON tuned cars and...if so is using the kickdown causing it? Some people here talk about the kickdown on our DCT cars as if it shouldn't be used. I understand these cars a "de tuned " off the shelf but....once you add 100+ HP to any car other systems become taxed and require upgrading drive line/Trans/brakes/fuel volume/ ect ect ect. This is where using the kickdown comes into play on a tuned car....but non tuned cars i suspect there is ZERO issues caused by using it from time to time.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-30-2020, 12:10 PM	#29
deli333 Second Lieutenant 145 Rep 230 Posts Drives: M4 Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	I am shocked because of the posts I have read. I thought the fun part of driving M is using kick down especially in efficient mode. I can't believe many of the guys don't even use this. bang the kickdown, let the car scream, feel all the torque and continue with manual shifting. I do it all the time when I feel bored. It is maybe the main reason I choose this car over its same range rivals. I have been doing it very very frequently in 2014 m4, and continue to do so. i'll let you guys if I fail it. I asked this to an experienced garage when I bought the car. I said I use kickdown etc alot what maintenance/failures should I expect? He said dct, turbos and something about diff. He didnt even mention the engine, I don't know why. edit : car is not tuned, 78000 miles.
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05-30-2020, 12:11 PM	#30
MNR Banned 267 Rep 230 Posts Drives: 2018 F80 ZCP Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	I use kickdown daily on my stock F80. Don’t want to click the paddle 4-5 times when I want to pass. Kickdown is far more violent too. No issues thus far and am not worried in the slightest bit.
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05-30-2020, 02:37 PM	#32
jpy1980 Lieutenant Colonel 1582 Rep 1,976 Posts Drives: 2015 BMW M3 -Smurfy Blue Vinyl Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (3)	I have a manual F80 so I’m not too sure, but what is kickdown?
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06-02-2020, 10:47 AM	#37
bodega_bladerunner Lieutenant 156 Rep 433 Posts Drives: 2015 M4 Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: In the moutains iTrader: (1)	Isn't double tapping the paddle the same as the kickdown switch?
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06-02-2020, 01:00 PM	#39
deli333 Second Lieutenant 145 Rep 230 Posts Drives: M4 Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	do other rivals have similiar kickdown like rs5, c63s etc. do they make noise and hit you back to seat?
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06-02-2020, 01:58 PM	#40
icegrill Lieutenant Colonel 2078 Rep 1,780 Posts Drives: 2015 M3 Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Oregon iTrader: (3)	Daddy can I use my kick down today!??
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06-02-2020, 06:57 PM	#43
deli333 Second Lieutenant 145 Rep 230 Posts Drives: M4 Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	how many of you guys use this to let other people know that you came home?
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06-02-2020, 10:12 PM	#44
XsltAnalyst Lieutenant 587 Rep 585 Posts Drives: 2016 F80, 957 Cayenne Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Maryland iTrader: (0)	I can't believe what I read here sometimes. What's next, we shouldn't brake too hard cause it can get too hot? It's not launch control we're talking about, it's simply an everyday function of the car we're discussing here. I believe engineers who designed and built this drivetrain spent tens of thousands of hours tweaking programming multiple ECUs to handle pretty much all scenarios in a safe manner. WOT puts the car into a maximum attack mode, regardless of throttle or other settings. It's simply a myth saying kickdown is harder on the (stock) engine vs manual downshifting.
	Appreciate 1 Tangent296.00 Quote