Top Gear tests an M3 vs. a Model 3 Performance at Thunderhill

[cca101]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

It is Thunderhill West course.

Both those times he set are embarrassingly slow.

Right? What a complete farce. Fake news at it's best right there.
Is the new top gear based out of silicon valley? Jeeze....

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

...tl;dr fake news....lmaooo

smh the driver sucked who woulda thunk. cant take anything at face value no more

[six-n-twins53]

Let's have a race from New York to Los Angeles

[ZCD1]

My response to some of the arguments above against the Model 3P:

"It's ugly." - Subjective - many seem to think it looks great.

"The power and torque made it win." - And if the M3 had been faster, would the argument be that it wasn't fair because the M3 sticks to a skidpad better? The Model 3P won and won easily.

"The driver sucked" - When was the last time you questioned who actually set a lap time? Same driver, same track, same conditions - that's what's important. And if you really want to get picky, then Randy Pobst ran 2:01 at Buttonwillow with a completely stock TM3P. Good luck trying to match that with an M3, a Cayman GTS, A Cayman GT4 or anything else anywhere near the price, with the possible exception of a Corvette.

"It won't do a race-length" track test" - Neither would an M3.

As has been mentioned, Tesla matched and/or beat the "gold-standard" sports coupe/sedan with their first try. Nobody's saying that the M3 isn't a great car - it is and always has been. Tough, though, as it may be to accept for many, the Tesla Model 3 is at least the M3s equal, which makes it also a great car.

[cca101]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

"The driver sucked"

The driver sucking has a big impact on the lap time results. His lap times are so damn slow that you can't seriously decide which car is more capable, because he doesn't know how get the best out of both vehicles. Not even close, in fact.

I've been racing Superbikes for a while so I may know what I'm talking about. The fact that a high number of amateurs are faster on a 600 than a 1000 proves my point. You think a 600 is faster than a 1000? Faster in the corners maybe? no, any competent rider will be faster on the 1000...

I don't care if the Tesla is in fact faster - I am pointing out that this article cannot accurately decide that.

The fake news comment was for a little fun, but there’s a little truth to it, no? Why don't we strap a monkey behind the wheel and decide which car is faster? Very objective...

[cca101]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

And if you really want to get picky, then Randy Pobst ran 2:01 at Buttonwillow with a completely stock TM3P. Good luck trying to match that with an M3, a Cayman GTS, A Cayman GT4 or anything else anywhere near the price, with the possible exception of a Corvette.

This man set a 2:01 with a dinosaur E46 M3
And hes not Randy Pobst
Facts are fun

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by cca101

Why don't we strap a monkey behind the wheel and decide which car is faster? Very objective...

How about 24 Hours of Daytona and multiple-championship winning professional racing driver Randy Pobst? Is he "monkey" enough for you?

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesl...ersion-review/

[cca101]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

How about 24 Hours of Daytona and multiple-championship winning professional racing driver Randy Pobst? Is he "monkey" enough for you?

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesl...ersion-review/

I don't understand, this has nothing to do with my monkey comment. If Randy drove that M3 and Tesla at Thunderhill on the same day and came up with lap results it would be a different story...this is not what happened...in fact monkey was at the wheel running 1:35s with 450hp vehicles which can apparently be matched by a VW GTI.

Also, what configuration did he run at Buttonwillow then? I'd like to see it, please show me the facts. The configuration driven by that E46 M3 is the most common.

You have a fast car, enjoy it. Just try to go faster than 1:35s with it if you ever go to Thunderhill because that's really slow - GTI slow.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

How about 24 Hours of Daytona and multiple-championship winning professional racing driver Randy Pobst? Is he "monkey" enough for you?

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesl...ersion-review/

It seems this article you posted says the Model 3 Performance with standard 4S tires is slower than the time Randy did in a BMW M4 from a couple years ago. Model 3 isn't faster until they put on some non-standard extreme rubber compound Cup 2's, in a 10mm plus size.

To give you an idea of what tires do, Randy's times with the Model 3 Perf:
4S tires - 1:23.90
Cup 2 tires - 1:21.49

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

It seems this article you posted says the Model 3 Performance with standard 4S tires is slower than the time Randy did in a BMW M4 from a couple years ago. Model 3 isn't faster until they put on some non-standard extreme rubber compound Cup 2's, in a 10mm plus size.

To give you an idea of what tires do, Randy's times with the Model 3 Perf:
4S tires - 1:23.90
Cup 2 tires - 1:21.49

It also listed that Brembo track pads were installed. Congratulations you beat a 5 year old car with pad upgrade and R compound tires.

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by cca101

Also, what configuration did he run at Buttonwillow then? I'd like to see it, please show me the facts. The configuration driven by that E46 M3 is the most common....

Configuration 13:

(from a Facebook post)

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

It is Thunderhill West course.

Both those times he set are embarrassingly slow.

There are m3/m4 who show up at track events and are slower than spec Miata.

Check out the lap time thread in our forum. There are many times slower than the 2:08 that was mid packs few weekends ago at Thunderhill 3mi

Not everyone is super great at driving, ( I myself am 8% off the target time for my spec Miata) so this is a relevant comparison for some people.

Anyway, back on topic, I used to have an f80 and switched to model 3. Tracked them both and they are both fun.

It comes down to personal preference, and I personally think model 3 is best as a street car with a dedicated track car garage mate. M3 is best for a single car garage

[ChuMpion3]

I love my M3 and this article by no means makes me want to switch, but it is disappointing to see these results. I always knew the Tesla was faster off the line - I didn’t care because drag races are for teenagers. But to win on the track? Yikes. Bar is set for the Ultimate Driving Machine.

[BLU135i]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

Thank you for adding the exhaust note. Exhaust acoustics are an internal part pf the driving experience. Otherwise, Akrapovic and other companies would be in business for a very short time.

Adding exhaust note to electric vehicles has come up as a regulatory topic for the future.

That's incorrect. Yes there is legislation to have electric vehicles produce a noise but only to warn pedestrians in crosswalks that there is a vehicle approaching. The Prius has had this already implemented for years and honestly it's a tech whirring sound you can barely notice.

[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by BLU135i

That's incorrect. Yes there is legislation to have electric vehicles produce a noise but only to warn pedestrians in crosswalks that there is a vehicle approaching. The Prius has had this already implemented for years and honestly it's a tech whirring sound you can barely notice.

That's what I meant in the previous note.

[BLU135i]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

That's what I meant in the previous note.

I guess I misunderstood. I wouldn't call it "adding an exhaust note".

[cca101]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

Configuration 13:

(from a Facebook post)

Yes, Buttonwillow 13 CW the most common configuration ran at that track, just like I mentioned above,I know this because i have ran it multiple times and ran a 1:47 on a motorcycle there. So it looks like that e46 shown above ran a 2:01 and was most likely not driven by a driver with skills as great as Randy's. So I must conclude that the now 15 years old e46 m3 is at least as capable around Buttonwillow as the tesla model 3 P.

[Humdizzle]

Thats great for Tesla and shows how far they have come.

Autopilot, fast, fun and you never have to wait for an engine to 'warm up'. You can floor it down the street as soon as you leave the driveway at 2am and you're neighbors will still be asleep. Or you can join them in having a nap since the autopilot will take you where you want to go. You are just a hater if you dont think thats impressive.

But i'm still die hard combustion engine. It would replace my work car but not the two i have in my garage (not even a new tesla roadster would replace my 458). And the M3P really needs an M treatment with a CF roof or fender flares to set it apart from the base model 3 that costs half as much. Tesla also has some build quality issues with panel gaps to sort out too.

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by cca101

...that e46 shown above ran a 2:01...

According to the description on YouTube, it was on Bridgestone RE-71s, and on 9.5” wide wheels.

Not exactly “stock”...

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by F30ZHP

I also don't want to have to always look to my right to see my gauges, I like them front and center thank you very much.

What gauges?
Tachometer?
Coolant temp?
Oil temp?
Oil pressure?
Gear selection indicator?

Originally Posted by F30ZHP

And I still think the Model 3 is still ugly. It also has poor build quality. EV's may be the future, but it doesn't mean I have to like them and could also care less how fast they

Those are highly subjective comments.

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

Thats great for Tesla and shows how far they have come.

Autopilot, fast, fun and you never have to wait for an engine to 'warm up'. You can floor it down the street as soon as you leave the driveway at 2am and you're neighbors will still be asleep. Or you can join them in having a nap since the autopilot will take you where you want to go. You are just a hater if you dont think thats impressive.

Indeed.
However, Tesla Autopilot has not achieved that level of fully autonomous driving just yet. Maybe by the end of the year it will, but not just yet.
Highly impressive and getting better with each OTA update - yes.
Close your eyes and nap on the way to work - no.

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

But i'm still die hard combustion engine. It would replace my work car but not the two i have in my garage (not even a new tesla roadster would replace my 458). And the M3P really needs an M treatment with a CF roof or fender flares to set it apart from the base model 3 that costs half as much. Tesla also has some build quality issues with panel gaps to sort out too.

I'm ambivalent about the forces that propel my car forward. ICE or EV will do. Form and function drive my purchases.
In some use-cases EV is better now.
In some, ICE is better. Nothing wrong with owning a few samples of each.

As to M3P need CF bits and F80-level sexier looks - sure, I would welcome that. But I would not pay more than a few grand extra for that, if that much.

Realistically, I will take TM3's Porsche-sleek nose and generic back-end, and drop the extra few grand into tire and suspension mods. Or into another hobby.

a

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by cca101

Yes, Buttonwillow 13 CW the most common configuration ran at that track, just like I mentioned above,I know this because i have ran it multiple times and ran a 1:47 on a motorcycle there. So it looks like that e46 shown above ran a 2:01 and was most likely not driven by a driver with skills as great as Randy's. So I must conclude that the now 15 years old e46 m3 is at least as capable around Buttonwillow as the tesla model 3 P.

So, I know you meant that as a put down of the EV, but don’t forget F80 was even slower in that guy’s hands.

And as for the e46 m3 with wider re71r, I’ll own up to the fact that I came across such a car at a bmw cca event (when in my stock with PSS f80 dct) and had a similar pace as the 15 yr old m3 that was 1/5 the price. Ouch.

[CanAutM3]

Video version is out (See OP)