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      01-31-2018, 04:40 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by pheerlx View Post
Try to get something out of the deal if you go with dealer.
Great suggestion. Will do. Already wondering if I can turn this into a sweet discount on an extended warranty (for example).
There is definitely meat on that bone.

Push for a couple grand (2-3)below buy out price at least to make it with your while.

As far as buying out from FS it is not complicated so don't let dealer deter you from that. You can def do this without any help or involvement from dealer.

Also you can go to any dealer you want for that buy out option if u really want to use a dealer.
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      02-01-2018, 12:23 PM   #24
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I'm at the end of a 3yr lease on a 2015 M4 and now I'm thinking about buying it out. I know, I know...that's the WORST way to end a lease, but after a lot of consideration I'm thinking it's actually not such a bad deal for my specific situation.

I've leased many cars before, but never bought one out at lease end for all the obvious reasons and I'm getting some "suspicious" info from my dealer. Just curious if anyone has bought out a lease before and might be able to help me sort out what's legit and what's dealer BS.

The things they're telling me that seem odd are:

1) I need to give them the car for ~4 days so they can secure the title from BMW FS. If nothing else, just seems like a LONG time for that process

2) Dealer will perform a mandatory "safety check" of the car at a cost of $250. Not sure why this is necessary if I'm essentially buying the car directly from BMW FS (as opposed to dealer buying it from BMW FS and then selling it back to me).

3) As part of the "safety check," they will determine any additional repair costs that I'll be responsible for. Not sure why I'd incur repair costs if I'm buying out the lease.

On top of that is the usual documentation fee, plate/registration fee and state taxes, but that seems pretty standard to me. As does the high APR they're giving me for financing through BMW FS (~4.5%).

Any help/guidance anyone could provide would be greatly appreciated.

You are getting some "half" answers here... Let me see if I can help.

1. If you buy the car from BMW FS, then you are paying the residual amount, and you shouldnt have to jump through all those hoops. You would cut a check to BMW FS for the residual amount, and they will tell you what to do next.

2. If you are trying to negotiate a price on the car that is LESS than the residual amount, BMW FS WILL NOT NEGOTIATE on the price. They dont negotiate on buyout pricing, the price is the price.

3. With Point #2 being made, the DEALER CAN buy the car from BMW FS, and sometimes for less (and sometimes much less) than the residual. If you want a price lower than the residual, you MUST negotiate with a dealer. It does not have to be the dealer you bought from, it can be any dealer you can take the car to.

The dealer gets a special buy out price from BMW that takes into account current auction pricing for the vehicle, so there may be a lot of room, or not much, depending on what your car would go for at auction.

If the dealer is selling the car to the person who leased it, there is an additional fee that is charged (ironically called a "loyalty adder", which sure is a stupid name for an additional fee that is charged when the person who leased the car buys it back). I dont know how much that fee is, its likely that it varies based on the vehicle. I KNOW it exists however, even though people dont talk about it much as I got that information from the "other" BMW board from a CA I trust.

Anyway, if you want to pay residual, you dont need the dealer for that to my knowledge. If you want to negotiate, you MUST do it through a dealer, and they will have their special buy out price, and then mark it up, and hopefully you two can come to an agreement on pricing where it benefits you both. If not, try another dealer.

So, its NOT TRUE that the dealer is just lying to you... they are just under the assumption that you want to buy the car from them, instead of directly through BMW FS. Of course, they may try to sell it to you for the residual amount anyway, because dealers want to make money. If you are not getting a discount off residual, and you are not looking to get the car CPO'ed you likely can avoid working with the dealer. If you want to try to negotiate the residual, you MUST deal with a dealer as again, BMW financial services WILL NOT NEGOTIATE the price of the car to an end user customer (they actually dont even negotiate with the dealer.. they TELL the dealer what he will pay for the car).
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      02-01-2018, 01:39 PM   #25
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Its all BS, you pay no excess or anything if you decide to purchase the car at lease end. Just go to the BMW Finance website, find out the pay off amount and send them a check, either from your bank, credit union, etc.,, or apply for credit through the website and finance it.

I have bought all of my leased cars in the past (albeit cash) and I have never visited a dealer.
You can literally do it all through the website. The plates, tax, etc will be the only extra costs. That dealership needs to be reported to BMWUSA.
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      02-01-2018, 01:47 PM   #26
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You can literally do it all through the website. The plates, tax, etc will be the only extra costs. That dealership needs to be reported to BMWUSA.
Actually, no they dont. Take a look at what I wrote. Your statement about doing it all through the website is 100 percent correct if you want to pay full residual, but, most dont want to do that, right?
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      02-01-2018, 01:48 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by scott13 View Post
I'm at the end of a 3yr lease on a 2015 M4 and now I'm thinking about buying it out. I know, I know...that's the WORST way to end a lease, but after a lot of consideration I'm thinking it's actually not such a bad deal for my specific situation.

I've leased many cars before, but never bought one out at lease end for all the obvious reasons and I'm getting some "suspicious" info from my dealer. Just curious if anyone has bought out a lease before and might be able to help me sort out what's legit and what's dealer BS.

The things they're telling me that seem odd are:

1) I need to give them the car for ~4 days so they can secure the title from BMW FS. If nothing else, just seems like a LONG time for that process

2) Dealer will perform a mandatory "safety check" of the car at a cost of $250. Not sure why this is necessary if I'm essentially buying the car directly from BMW FS (as opposed to dealer buying it from BMW FS and then selling it back to me).

3) As part of the "safety check," they will determine any additional repair costs that I'll be responsible for. Not sure why I'd incur repair costs if I'm buying out the lease.

On top of that is the usual documentation fee, plate/registration fee and state taxes, but that seems pretty standard to me. As does the high APR they're giving me for financing through BMW FS (~4.5%).

Any help/guidance anyone could provide would be greatly appreciated.

You are getting some "half" answers here... Let me see if I can help.

1. If you buy the car from BMW FS, then you are paying the residual amount, and you shouldnt have to jump through all those hoops. You would cut a check to BMW FS for the residual amount, and they will tell you what to do next.

2. If you are trying to negotiate a price on the car that is LESS than the residual amount, BMW FS WILL NOT NEGOTIATE on the price. They dont negotiate on buyout pricing, the price is the price.

3. With Point #2 being made, the DEALER CAN buy the car from BMW FS, and sometimes for less (and sometimes much less) than the residual. If you want a price lower than the residual, you MUST negotiate with a dealer. It does not have to be the dealer you bought from, it can be any dealer you can take the car to.

The dealer gets a special buy out price from BMW that takes into account current auction pricing for the vehicle, so there may be a lot of room, or not much, depending on what your car would go for at auction.

If the dealer is selling the car to the person who leased it, there is an additional fee that is charged (ironically called a "loyalty adder", which sure is a stupid name for an additional fee that is charged when the person who leased the car buys it back). I dont know how much that fee is, its likely that it varies based on the vehicle. I KNOW it exists however, even though people dont talk about it much as I got that information from the "other" BMW board from a CA I trust.

Anyway, if you want to pay residual, you dont need the dealer for that to my knowledge. If you want to negotiate, you MUST do it through a dealer, and they will have their special buy out price, and then mark it up, and hopefully you two can come to an agreement on pricing where it benefits you both. If not, try another dealer.

So, its NOT TRUE that the dealer is just lying to you... they are just under the assumption that you want to buy the car from them, instead of directly through BMW FS. Of course, they may try to sell it to you for the residual amount anyway, because dealers want to make money. If you are not getting a discount off residual, and you are not looking to get the car CPO'ed you likely can avoid working with the dealer. If you want to try to negotiate the residual, you MUST deal with a dealer as again, BMW financial services WILL NOT NEGOTIATE the price of the car to an end user customer (they actually dont even negotiate with the dealer.. they TELL the dealer what he will pay for the car).
Excellent information thank you. I know leasing isn't for everyone and some feel vehemently against it for whatever reason but it gives you options like this. At the end of a lease you can return it and walk away, buy it from BMWFS, and now I learned you can buy it from any dealer for possibly less than the residual amount. If for some reason the car is worth more than residual, you could even sell the car, pay the residual and pocket some profit. Additionally if during your lease you need to get rid of it, there's lease assumption. When you buy/finance you have two options only: keep or sell and be at the mercy of market forces and ever present reliability anxiety.
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      02-01-2018, 02:01 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by pheerlx View Post
Excellent information thank you. I know leasing isn't for everyone and some feel vehemently against it for whatever reason but it gives you options like this. At the end of a lease you can return it and walk away, buy it from BMWFS, and now I learned you can buy it from any dealer for possibly less than the residual amount. Additionally if during your lease you need to get rid of it, there's lease assumption. When you buy/finance you have two options only: keep or sell.
While I certainly dont want to get into the "lease vs buy" debate as that has been done to death, I agree that there is no "one" right answer because we are all different people.

(note: I have 2 leased 2016 MY BMWs, so obviously I am not against leasing).

Its actually easier to get out of a purchase than a lease (no worry about lease assumption, just sell).

Leases have the 925 lease acquisition fee up front and a 350 lease disposition fee at the end (thats waived if you get into a new BMW with BMW Financial Services).

Leasing does not avoid the depreciation hit from a new car (neither does a purchase of a new car)

Leases are ABSOLUTELY the best option if you are one who likes to drive a new car every 3-4 years.

Purchasing is ABSOLUTELY better if you can keep the car for 6+ years. Every year past roughly 6 tilts more in favor of purchasing rather than leasing, since at that point you have a paid off car you are not making payments on, and paying for maintenance / break fix.

"Most" People who purchase a car, start looking to replace it the second they pay it off (or before). Lease vs purchase doesnt really matter if you purchase and sell / trade the car in, every 4-5 years.

You DO get another "crack" at negotiating the price again if you lease if you want to keep it. The advice on not buying out a lease is because the residual is normally WAY out of whack with what the car is really worth.

On M3s right now, that may not be necessarily true... but on "regular" bmws like 328s and 335s, etc it absolutely is true that the residual is way out of whack with what the car is worth. A person leasing benefits from the abnormally high residual set by BMW FS during the lease, but it comes home to roost if one wants to BUY the lease out because of the inflated value of the residual. This is why if one wants to buy a lease out, they need to at least explore what a dealer (or multiple dealers) will sell you your car back for, because it could be less than the residual.

Again, on M3s I am not sure how much different... but on a loaded 328 or 335, the difference could be thousands (difference between the residual that BMW FS would want a check for, and what a dealer would sell that same car back to you for).

Its like shopping for a car all over again, because you absolutely do not have to do it with the dealer you bought the car from. The trick would be to sit down with a finance manager and convince them that "this is an easy transaction, I want to buy my car, you want to make a little money on it, lets do this right now "

Sometimes you can get a car CPOed (which has less value than it used to) and still pay a few thousand less than the residual. Again (I know I keep repeating myself but its important)... this is driven somewhat by real auction pricing, and what the cars are ACTUALLY worth, and while I dont have one, I hear that M3s are holding their value pretty well, so there may be less room there to "play" so to speak.
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      02-01-2018, 02:21 PM   #29
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what if the car was in an accident and has $10-$20k in damages that insurance repaired. Would that bring the buyout cost even lower? I know someone in this situation and thinking about buying out their lease, if the price is right. Their current buyout is $51k, but the car is worth $47k on KBB dealer trade in. Thinking if a dealer sees that it was in an accident, the purchase price could be negotiated to much lower than what the value is?
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      02-01-2018, 03:07 PM   #30
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what if the car was in an accident and has $10-$20k in damages that insurance repaired. Would that bring the buyout cost even lower? I know someone in this situation and thinking about buying out their lease, if the price is right. Their current buyout is $51k, but the car is worth $47k on KBB dealer trade in. Thinking if a dealer sees that it was in an accident, the purchase price could be negotiated to much lower than what the value is?
BMW FS does not price accidents into their offer price to the dealer. Dealers have to either take it or leave it, they dont get to negotiate with BMW FS over the price.

"Full circle" (new, used, service etc) dealers basically have to take everything, but have some "muligans" they can use. How many depends on the dealer, and I dont have that information (I am not a dealer).

So, for your friend, the Buyout price will not reflect the lowered value from the accident. We all know there is lowered value but BMW FS wont care. The dealer will likely take that car, and then decide if they want to keep it or send it off to auction (an M car with an accident might go to auction).

Once its at auction, then the car would be sold, etc and show up wherever it shows up.

Your friend is better off writing that car off and just turning it in, because they are not going to get the value reduced for the value of the accident if they try to buy it during the lease end process. Your friend could certainly turn it in, keep searching for the vin, and see where it turns up and for how much, and then try to buy it if its still out there to be bought.
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      02-02-2018, 11:11 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by jjrandorin View Post
You are getting some "half" answers here... Let me see if I can help.

1. If you buy the car from BMW FS, then you are paying the residual amount, and you shouldnt have to jump through all those hoops. You would cut a check to BMW FS for the residual amount, and they will tell you what to do next.

2. If you are trying to negotiate a price on the car that is LESS than the residual amount, BMW FS WILL NOT NEGOTIATE on the price. They dont negotiate on buyout pricing, the price is the price.

3. With Point #2 being made, the DEALER CAN buy the car from BMW FS, and sometimes for less (and sometimes much less) than the residual. If you want a price lower than the residual, you MUST negotiate with a dealer. It does not have to be the dealer you bought from, it can be any dealer you can take the car to.

The dealer gets a special buy out price from BMW that takes into account current auction pricing for the vehicle, so there may be a lot of room, or not much, depending on what your car would go for at auction.

If the dealer is selling the car to the person who leased it, there is an additional fee that is charged (ironically called a "loyalty adder", which sure is a stupid name for an additional fee that is charged when the person who leased the car buys it back). I dont know how much that fee is, its likely that it varies based on the vehicle. I KNOW it exists however, even though people dont talk about it much as I got that information from the "other" BMW board from a CA I trust.

Anyway, if you want to pay residual, you dont need the dealer for that to my knowledge. If you want to negotiate, you MUST do it through a dealer, and they will have their special buy out price, and then mark it up, and hopefully you two can come to an agreement on pricing where it benefits you both. If not, try another dealer.

So, its NOT TRUE that the dealer is just lying to you... they are just under the assumption that you want to buy the car from them, instead of directly through BMW FS. Of course, they may try to sell it to you for the residual amount anyway, because dealers want to make money. If you are not getting a discount off residual, and you are not looking to get the car CPO'ed you likely can avoid working with the dealer. If you want to try to negotiate the residual, you MUST deal with a dealer as again, BMW financial services WILL NOT NEGOTIATE the price of the car to an end user customer (they actually dont even negotiate with the dealer.. they TELL the dealer what he will pay for the car).
More GREAT info. Many thanks.

For full disclosure, the way this started for me was...

I told the dealer that I was interested in the option of buying out the lease, but didn't know how that process worked and would like to see the details. I didn't ask for any sort of discount on the residual and I also didn't specify whether I wanted to go through them or directly through BMW FS, largely because I didn't realize going directly through BWM FS was an option. They just presented me with their "deal" which was the full residual price plus >$500 in nebulously defined fees ($335 documentation fee + $250 safety check fee + to be determined repair costs). They also included the cost of state sales tax and the standard $135 registration and title fee, but both of those make perfect sense to me.

I'm comfortable with paying the full residual, especially since it happens to be right about in the range for market value around here (according to KBB). Knowing what I know now (thanks to everyone here), I'm planning on either going through BMW FS and just handle everything myself OR see if the dealer is willing to waive the various fees and potentially pass on some benefit they'll realize by purchasing the car on my behalf, maybe in the form of a nice discount on extended warranty or something like that. That feels like a fair ask on my part since I feel like they opened the door to that conversation by presenting their way as "THE" way this is done.
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      02-02-2018, 11:49 AM   #32
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More GREAT info. Many thanks.

For full disclosure, the way this started for me was...

I told the dealer that I was interested in the option of buying out the lease, but didn't know how that process worked and would like to see the details. I didn't ask for any sort of discount on the residual and I also didn't specify whether I wanted to go through them or directly through BMW FS, largely because I didn't realize going directly through BWM FS was an option. They just presented me with their "deal" which was the full residual price plus >$500 in nebulously defined fees ($335 documentation fee + $250 safety check fee + to be determined repair costs). They also included the cost of state sales tax and the standard $135 registration and title fee, but both of those make perfect sense to me.

I'm comfortable with paying the full residual, especially since it happens to be right about in the range for market value around here (according to KBB). Knowing what I know now (thanks to everyone here), I'm planning on either going through BMW FS and just handle everything myself OR see if the dealer is willing to waive the various fees and potentially pass on some benefit they'll realize by purchasing the car on my behalf, maybe in the form of a nice discount on extended warranty or something like that. That feels like a fair ask on my part since I feel like they opened the door to that conversation by presenting their way as "THE" way this is done.


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      02-04-2018, 12:37 PM   #33
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@scott13 what is your mileage and what type of extended warranty are you looking at, as I have the wholesale pricing sheets? Please post.

jjrandorin nice to see you over here!! Your points are straight on!

Unless your going to order and lease a new vehicle at the end of the lease term, then initial purchasing/financing is the route to go. As there is more profit for the dealership to be made on the used car vs new vehicle. The CPO program has been gutted by BMW NA, what's the point of going through the dealership, only to lower the buyout. Unless your M3 is way under millage, the residual from BMW FS is higher than the auction price. Remember, inflated residuals lowers the monthly payments, which moves vehicles out the doors and BMWFS has been taking upwards of $2,000 per vehicle hit at lease end because of unrealistic residuals.
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      02-05-2018, 11:00 AM   #34
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@scott13 what is your mileage and what type of extended warranty are you looking at, as I have the wholesale pricing sheets? Please post.

jjrandorin nice to see you over here!! Your points are straight on!

Unless your going to order and lease a new vehicle at the end of the lease term, then initial purchasing/financing is the route to go. As there is more profit for the dealership to be made on the used car vs new vehicle. The CPO program has been gutted by BMW NA, what's the point of going through the dealership, only to lower the buyout. Unless your M3 is way under millage, the residual from BMW FS is higher than the auction price. Remember, inflated residuals lowers the monthly payments, which moves vehicles out the doors and BMWFS has been taking upwards of $2,000 per vehicle hit at lease end because of unrealistic residuals.
Sweet. That'd be great if you could post or PM wholesale numbers to me. Hell, even LIST prices would be helpful just to get perspective.

Current mileage is ~36,000. I was looking at the BMW Gold or maybe Platinum 6 year/75,000 mile Extended Service Contract.
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      02-05-2018, 12:59 PM   #35
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does this benefit you in anyway if you are severely under milleage for example. 20k on 30k lease
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      02-05-2018, 05:44 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott13 View Post
They just presented me with their "deal" which was the full residual price plus >$500 in nebulously defined fees ($335 documentation fee + $250 safety check fee + to be determined repair costs). They also included the cost of state sales tax and the standard $135 registration and title fee, but both of those make perfect sense to me.
Are you saying they are making a deal for your buyout price on the website plus tax? Because your buyout includes tax, theirs doesn't which would indicate to me that they are trying to make you think that your buyout price online doesn't include tax, which I THINK it does, so by doing this, they're making a few thousand in profit on essentially double charging tax.
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      02-05-2018, 08:53 PM   #37
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Thanks for the welcome! I have had an account here for a while but tend to not be as active over here. I am going to try to check in over here more.
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      02-07-2018, 08:39 PM   #38
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Sweet. That'd be great if you could post or PM wholesale numbers to me. Hell, even LIST prices would be helpful just to get perspective.

Current mileage is ~36,000. I was looking at the BMW Gold or maybe Platinum 6 year/75,000 mile Extended Service Contract.
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Sorry for the delay in responding. Here you go for up to 48 months from original in-service date and miles at program enrollment between 20,001 miles up to 50,000 miles, as EVP is under written by BMWFS:

M3 is Category F (BMWFS range is Category A through G)

Coverage Center Cost (Invoice) MRSP Mark-Up
Gold $4,339 $5,339 23%
Platinum $4,909 $5,909 29%
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      02-09-2018, 08:28 AM   #39
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Are you saying they are making a deal for your buyout price on the website plus tax? Because your buyout includes tax, theirs doesn't which would indicate to me that they are trying to make you think that your buyout price online doesn't include tax, which I THINK it does, so by doing this, they're making a few thousand in profit on essentially double charging tax.
Hmm. Didn't quite follow that. The residual number I'm seeing through BMW FS and my dealer is the same. To the best of my knowledge, I'll be paying sales tax either way. Not 100% sure if that's true or not, but that's my expectation/understanding. Will definitely look into it further though. Thanks for the heads up.
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      02-09-2018, 08:46 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Ibiza View Post
scott13

Sorry for the delay in responding. Here you go for up to 48 months from original in-service date and miles at program enrollment between 20,001 miles up to 50,000 miles, as EVP is under written by BMWFS:

M3 is Category F (BMWFS range is Category A through G)

Coverage Center Cost (Invoice) MRSP Mark-Up
Gold $4,339 $5,339 23%
Platinum $4,909 $5,909 29%
Sweet. Many thanks. I'm actually surprised there's only a $1k markup for MSRP.

This is SUPER helpful. I've seen numbers in other threads that are all over the place, but it's always a bit unclear whether people are quoting numbers from 3rd party extended warranties or from BMW.

In case this thread ends up being useful to someone else down the road, here's the latest.

I asked the dealer to waive the various fees they were throwing at me and they agreed to "work them into the residual". When I pressed them for clarification on what that meant, they said they're effectively going to lower the residual so that they can collect their $585 in fees. Somewhat slimy, but I suppose it works out the same in the end.

They're still insisting that they MUST keep the car for ~4 days to "ground" it while they do the title transfer. I have no idea what that means, but it still smells like BS.

Since they opened the door on the possibility of lowering the residual, I'm pushing them to either lower the buyout price or at least cut me a significant deal on the extended warranty.

I'm rapidly heading towards just working directly with BMW FS and dealing with the not insignificant (in Massachusetts) headache of doing the title transfer/registration myself. As many here have suggested, that was probably always going to be the simplest/best option.
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      07-01-2019, 01:56 PM   #41
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hey guys, so the lease on my 2016 M3 is up in August and I'm thinking to buy out the lease since I just love the car!

It seems every dealership I've ever been to is trying to offer to help me write the sale. Since the buyout price is around $51k, is there any incentive to the sales guy or dealership or writes the deal?

My car has barely 20,000 miles so well below the lease limit of 30k over 3 years. I bought the car from an out of state dealer in NY and I'm in CA. Is it easier to go to a local dealer to negotiate or do it with the dealer who sold me the car?

I'm sorta a newbie since normally I always return my leased cars but this is the first one I really wanted to keep.


thanks!
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      07-04-2019, 07:51 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s4play View Post
Is it easier to go to a local dealer to negotiate or do it with the dealer who sold me the car?
This thread has some nuances that have changed recently. If I'm not mistaken, the dealer can no longer negotiate a better deal for you. They can however buy the car from BMW at at lower price and sell to someone OTHER than you. From what I've seen if they sell YOU the car below the residual amount, and BMW finds out, they are on the hook for the delta in costs.

I am very curious therefore why a bunch of dealers are trying to get you to do run the deal through them. Maybe they are hitting you up with the paperwork fee and a chance to sell the extended warranty?
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      07-04-2019, 09:27 AM   #43
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My guess is that dealers are hard up for new sales. They want you to come in, see some new stock while they park your car out back and try to get you on the hook.

It’s pretty well documented (business trades) that auto sales are way, way down this year. My guess is that people aren’t walking in as much as they used to so these guys are getting creative on new ways to get a potential buyer in the door.
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      07-04-2019, 04:43 PM   #44
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This is how I did it just one week ago.
I got my BMW FS buyout numbers and my dealer beat them by couple $.
My car was at the dealer for couple hours for the inspection and services. Got new plates and drove off the lot. Maybe 3 hours in total.
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