Pandora Car Alarm System
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > BMW M4 GTS Discussions

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-23-2017, 12:35 PM   #89
Sparco
Private First Class
Sparco's Avatar
United_States
70
Rep
116
Posts

Drives: GT3 \ Future M2 Comp
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cape Coral, Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osiris View Post
Ya. A lot of us are perplexed by this phenomenon that's seems to be limited to the USA. I own one and got it at msrp. It's certainly a unique car and not too flashy. Haven't tracked yet and put 2500 miles. I am still trying to feel the car and a bit scared of it with so much torque at low end. But then I am a slow learner, no rush. I also have a 1M which is great fun too but went through the same curve with me. It also dropped in value initially because it wasn't so "special" when it came out. Now it's going up in value. I think the gts will go through the same cycle particularly when the new Ms cone out with so much technology the GTS will look very analog in comparison and then go up in value. I think the USA gts market was hit by many local cars like mustang gt350 which are great cars for great value and local. Such cars in international market are considered exotic and might scare off buyers because of the service etc which is not the case in the USA because of familiarity. The gts is a local car in Europe and thus holds a safe and good value there. That's my take on the situation. Nonetheless, it's a great car and feels like a special occasion every time I start it and go for a drive, that is when I lose any regret for buying it. It's not confidence building to drive and that's why I like it, I feel you have to develop a relationship with it or "her/him"
At this point in my car obsession, the GTS starts to become quite attractive. Having just spent 2 weeks in Europe and a couple of days at the ring, The M car of choice by far was the M2. On a Sunday tourist day with upwards of 500 cars there, I bet I saw 30 M2s, and a handful of M3s/M4s. My thought was to wait for the release of the new M2 Comp/CS or whatever name they will give it and I'd unload one of my inventory. Which one just depends on what I replace it with. The quad has the best steering and engine/exhaust/gearbox that I've owned in a long time. The TTRS has a tremendous engine and is obviously more nimble in terms of sheer weight/mass. Time will tell as I now have both to compare whenever the mood should strike. Depending on the new M2 price, a GTS seems like an awful lot of car for the money. I'm not hung up on how harsh the GTS is as I don't use these cars on a daily basis anyway. Prior, I did own a fully specced GT4 which truly only shined on a race track. On the street, it just didn't do it for me. It just seems reviews where a bit harsh and the car obviously isn't practical when it comes to a regular M4 but I truly could care less about practical. Time will tell
Appreciate 0
      11-23-2017, 01:53 PM   #90
hi_officer
Private First Class
150
Rep
188
Posts

Drives: something fast
Join Date: May 2017
Location: somewhere slow

iTrader: (0)

I'm a bit perplexed, too. I guess I look at it this way...

A new 2018 M4 costs $66,200, is the M4 GTS really worth $68k MORE than the base M4? For some people, YES because of what it is and what it can do. But, the price in the marketplace is dropping because enough people do not value it at $134k or $120k or $110k.... yet. It may go up, it may not... the future is hard to predict.
Appreciate 0
      11-23-2017, 03:31 PM   #91
jpdchicago
Major
United_States
1359
Rep
1,394
Posts

Drives: M4 CSL, X3MC
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Chicago area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
I'm a bit perplexed, too. I guess I look at it this way...

A new 2018 M4 costs $66,200, is the M4 GTS really worth $68k MORE than the base M4? For some people, YES because of what it is and what it can do. But, the price in the marketplace is dropping because enough people do not value it at $134k or $120k or $110k.... yet. It may go up, it may not... the future is hard to predict.
The real test will be if and when the M4 CS comes out at or around $110,000 (A real possibility-and for sure with CCB) Then the gts will become the better value again. Fuller track package and limited edition.
The reality is that $115,000 for a new gts (only 2 left at those prices, so hurry if you are on the fence) is a bargain for this type of feel/performance.
I personally would rather buy new at $115,000 than used with low miles at $105,000. 4year warranty and no risk/history.

Last edited by jpdchicago; 11-23-2017 at 03:38 PM..
Appreciate 0
      11-23-2017, 04:42 PM   #92
Sparco
Private First Class
Sparco's Avatar
United_States
70
Rep
116
Posts

Drives: GT3 \ Future M2 Comp
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cape Coral, Florida

iTrader: (0)

I'm of the opinion none of the cars that guys own are used as daily transportation. To the guys that do currently own, what's it like? Everything seems to be ramped up. Power, performance, stiffness, etc. which I totally get. Performance cars NEED an edge. The GTS appears to be just that. However, based on what I've seen and read, car needs the right set up to extract ultimate performance. I have never believed that the car should have been priced at twice the money of a standard M4 but that's just my 2 cents. Does it truly stack up against a 991 GT3? That's what I'm most curious. With so few cars, I cant get a feel nor can you simply test drive one. Tell me guys tell me......
Appreciate 0
      11-23-2017, 04:55 PM   #93
VCP
Colonel
VCP's Avatar
Canada
1390
Rep
2,336
Posts

Drives: M4GTS BSM/F90comp/BSM M2CS
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Real


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex@AUTOcouture View Post
to sum it up, bmw delivered an extra 100 cars to the u.s that weren't accounted for and it basically screwed the market, once the remaining gts are all sold the values will tell true and go back up to a steady number
get them while you can!
Appreciate 0
      11-23-2017, 05:01 PM   #94
VCP
Colonel
VCP's Avatar
Canada
1390
Rep
2,336
Posts

Drives: M4GTS BSM/F90comp/BSM M2CS
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

I own a modded F82 M4 and the GTS. Track them both. You would spend far more than the additional cost of GTS over M4 to make the M4 comparable(unless you are a technician and can do all labour yourself and even at that there are certain differences that just can't be had at a wise value). If you were to forget about the body look of the 2 cars you would not be able to feel a similarity between the M4 and GTS, it is that far removed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparco View Post
I'm of the opinion none of the cars that guys own are used as daily transportation. To the guys that do currently own, what's it like? Everything seems to be ramped up. Power, performance, stiffness, etc. which I totally get. Performance cars NEED an edge. The GTS appears to be just that. However, based on what I've seen and read, car needs the right set up to extract ultimate performance. I have never believed that the car should have been priced at twice the money of a standard M4 but that's just my 2 cents. Does it truly stack up against a 991 GT3? That's what I'm most curious. With so few cars, I cant get a feel nor can you simply test drive one. Tell me guys tell me......
Appreciate 2
Rasya36.50
      11-23-2017, 08:49 PM   #95
Bimmed Out
There Is No Substitute
1909
Rep
1,070
Posts

Drives: Several 911's
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Almost bought one of these at sticker when they first came out and am thanking my lucky stars I didn't. At high 80s, though, it's very tempting.

Last edited by Bimmed Out; 11-26-2017 at 12:58 PM..
Appreciate 0
      11-23-2017, 09:33 PM   #96
domino_z
Lieutenant Colonel
1196
Rep
1,958
Posts

Drives: F-Pace SVR
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

As a car collector/speculator it's sad to say bmw just doesn't have the brand cache to pull off an appreciating classic worthy of investment

I was looking at an m4 dtm (fewer built than gts), equally well discounted as you're experiencing on the gts, but I have no faith it'll be desirable in 5-10 years
Appreciate 1
sdshah849.00
      11-23-2017, 10:01 PM   #97
Rambler
Lieutenant
206
Rep
566
Posts

Drives: 996 Turbo; G80 M3; FJ80 LC
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: central Connecticut

iTrader: (0)

As a big fan of the GTS, I have been watching these prices closely as well. There is a white one local to me listed for about $102k with < 300 miles on it. With our crappy roads around here, it makes it a harder sell I’m guessing. It’s been at the same dealer for a long time and the price drops every few weeks. If it gets to the point where the dealer will do whatever it takes to get it off their hands, I may be its next owner! High 80s noted above is insane for this car. I also agree that if the CS comes in at over $100k, people will begin to regret passing on these when they had the chance to get one at these prices.
Appreciate 1
      11-24-2017, 08:07 AM   #98
hi_officer
Private First Class
150
Rep
188
Posts

Drives: something fast
Join Date: May 2017
Location: somewhere slow

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VCP View Post
I own a modded F82 M4 and the GTS. Track them both. You would spend far more than the additional cost of GTS over M4 to make the M4 comparable(unless you are a technician and can do all labour yourself and even at that there are certain differences that just can't be had at a wise value). If you were to forget about the body look of the 2 cars you would not be able to feel a similarity between the M4 and GTS, it is that far removed.
So you are saying that if you take a $70k M4 and throw in $64k worth of parts and labor you would not be able to get similar performance, ride comfort, etc. that you get in the GTS? That seems far fetched and unsubstantiated. Sounds like someone has taken the blue pill.

I just think the appeal of an uber-track oriented M4 applies to a small population of people at $134k. Most people that want a track car at that price (and something German) will go the tried and trusted avenue of Porsche.

Oh, and I know how you guys LOVE corvettes. The new ZR1 will cost around $120k (most likely) and will absolutely blast the mother effin doors off the GTS (and most cars for that matter). If you can stand the corvette cliche, the looks and the GM interior... not a bad choice.
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2017, 09:36 AM   #99
Sparco
Private First Class
Sparco's Avatar
United_States
70
Rep
116
Posts

Drives: GT3 \ Future M2 Comp
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cape Coral, Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VCP View Post
I own a modded F82 M4 and the GTS. Track them both. You would spend far more than the additional cost of GTS over M4 to make the M4 comparable(unless you are a technician and can do all labour yourself and even at that there are certain differences that just can't be had at a wise value). If you were to forget about the body look of the 2 cars you would not be able to feel a similarity between the M4 and GTS, it is that far removed.
Being that you are an owner, does the GTS compare to a GT3? Do the brakes hold up to abuse? Have you played with the suspension? I begin to wonder if guys that did purchase this car at sticker or beyond got it and realized that it was just not there cup of tea. Obviously, a GT3 or GT4 is THE ideal track car. In stock form or with just a set up, its amazing what one can do with either of those. The GTS for me would HAVE to compete. Why would anyone buy one in the first place? Again, I do believe that it is a very small segment of guys that want to go this route. I'm just trying to gauge the market as best I can. I wonder what happens after the first of the year??
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2017, 01:32 PM   #100
VCP
Colonel
VCP's Avatar
Canada
1390
Rep
2,336
Posts

Drives: M4GTS BSM/F90comp/BSM M2CS
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Let me just be clear for sake of pointless arguing. The GTS is by far the most track capable(weekend warrior) car to come from M out of the box. Now, if you seek the ultimate track car then not even the GT3/GT4 is that. You buy/build a dedicated track car, or for me, get the M4GT4. So if you want to go out for dinner and then to track next day it will be a subjective discussion. The 911 does not suit everyone's driving style and the same applies to all other cars. I have been on track and ran down many vettes, GT4 cayman(if you can keep front tyres on this car), GTR nismo... Is this due to driver skill level? I would say yes. Switch drivers up and this could all be the opposite. The missing point here is the GTS was released to set the fastest ring time by a M and also be a road going limited production car. For their efforts, BMWM succeeded at their goal. I keep in touch with other owners from around the world outside of this forum. Not one of them has plans to sell and they always get the big grin thrill every time they drive it, on track or off. I have spent some time changing all suspension settings and yes it would be something you could do for each track you go to. Takes some effort and understanding of cars behaviour but it makes a huge difference when setup correct. The aero aspect is very good in rain. On a dry track the mechanical grip from GTS is amazing. Brakes have never been a issue, very good and consistent. The longest stint I have done was 30 minutes. In that time I used over 3/4 tank of fuel. I could care a less about current US values. This car will appreciate in future I feel, but if not I still am not bothered. Not selling it, ever. So yes I am a BMW M loyalist/purist. Will not be shopping for a different brand to try and shave marginal time off laps. I absolutely love this car! I wanted the E92 GTS but we were denied in NA. So this was a very special offering for me. My past/present cars have been E36 Euro M3, E39 M5, a few E46 M3's, 2 E92 M3's, 3 F82 M4's, M4GTS. Still have 633WHP E92 M3, F82M4, M4GTS. I hope you end up with your own ultimate daily/track car, I know I have for now. maybe the upcoming m2CSL will change that, who knows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparco View Post
Being that you are an owner, does the GTS compare to a GT3? Do the brakes hold up to abuse? Have you played with the suspension? I begin to wonder if guys that did purchase this car at sticker or beyond got it and realized that it was just not there cup of tea. Obviously, a GT3 or GT4 is THE ideal track car. In stock form or with just a set up, its amazing what one can do with either of those. The GTS for me would HAVE to compete. Why would anyone buy one in the first place? Again, I do believe that it is a very small segment of guys that want to go this route. I'm just trying to gauge the market as best I can. I wonder what happens after the first of the year??
Appreciate 2
Y8HOO191.50
M4 CSL229.00
      11-24-2017, 01:47 PM   #101
jpdchicago
Major
United_States
1359
Rep
1,394
Posts

Drives: M4 CSL, X3MC
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Chicago area

iTrader: (0)

The only reason prices have been soft (in the US) is that BMW released 100 EXTRA units AFTER all the gts had been called for (from MSRP up to $200,000 bought at an auction).
We would not be having that discussion if BMW had kept their end of the deal to release 700 Gts. They ended up making a total of 803 and all extra ones were dumped on the US market. All at once. Result? Current prices: $110,000 for used ones in the US, $200,000 for used ones in Europe. New ones are at MSRP or above, except for 3 of them between $115,000 and $120,000.
We are now down to 24 new ones for sale in the US. All sold out in the rest of the world. Time will tell...

The good part? I was able to get one of those extra 100 (I did not make the original list.) So, for me, it is all good and no, I am not selling. Too much fun!

Last edited by jpdchicago; 11-24-2017 at 04:15 PM..
Appreciate 3
VCP1390.00
CanAutM321104.50
      11-24-2017, 10:27 PM   #102
schnell325
Bored at work....
schnell325's Avatar
Canada
887
Rep
5,378
Posts

Drives: 2016 F82 M4 GTS//2022 M235iGC
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Comox Valley

iTrader: (8)

It is very unfortunate what happened to the GTS in the USA. I’m disappointed with whomever decided to dump 100 units in the the USA market. I think dispersing then amongst other countries would have been more polite.

However, I have no regrets buying mine. ��
__________________
Grey Matter:2008 E92 M3:608/425. SG/PS SOLD!
Dark Matter:2015 F80 M3:495/505. SOLD!
Anti Matter :2016 F82 M4 GTS
What next?!? A 2022 M235i GC- I must be getting old
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2017, 11:51 PM   #103
johnr265
Second Lieutenant
179
Rep
230
Posts

Drives: 1M
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: East Coast

iTrader: (0)

OK, I'll weigh in here. First off my biases. I am a car guy. I love anything that is fun and interesting. I have only owned three M cars over the years so hardly a fanboy. I have also owned cars from a Z28 Camaro to Porsche GT cars. I am a current owner for over a year and put close to 5000 miles on the car. Here are my thoughts.

Track- I have only tracked the car twice (I have other primary track car). Disclaimer. I run a very camber heavy track so YMMV. The first time stock at lowered height with full aero. Result? I was very disappointed because there wasn't enough front camber. Not only did I toast the front tires in one day but the car wasn't fast because I did not have enough front grip. Second time, I put ground control camber plates on, went -3 front and -2 rear. Result? Totally transformed the car. Front wear totally even. Handling, amazing. Corner speeds? Super fast. Easily able to consume up to a 997 GT3 (with me on MPSC and them on Hoosiers in the red run group). With only one mod out of the box, the car was awesome. I know some have gone with square Hoosier setup and I would guess this car could hang with 991 GT3 if you did that (but you must do seat and harness then for safety's sake in my opinion because you are flying at that point). I have owned and tracked a 996 GT3, 997.2 GT3 RS, and a GT4 and all required far more setup work to "get it right" from the factory. Ultimate satisfaction at the track, pretty darn similar though I personally prefer a manual transmission even though paddles are faster and more forgiving.

Street- of all of those mentioned Porsche GT cars, the M4 GTS is by far the MOST comfortable and best street car. The suspension is actually pretty compliant, the turbo provides immense torque, and the paddle shift which is a touch slow on the track really come into it's own on the street. You can even get pretty decent mileage for a 500 hp monster. One other interesting tidbit. All of the Porsche GT cars were great on the street too UNTIL you set them up for track work. As soon as you added more negative camber, they became darty on the street, tramlining over ever hump and crashing over the slightest ripple in the road. The GTS actually drives straight as an arrow, even with -3 up front (#frontEngine). I don't fear (most) bumps. The stereo is actually decent and I love the heads up display (it is actually super useful on track too BTW). Only complaint (don't call me a pansy)- amazon app has a lot of glitches synching with the iDrive. I do actually daily drive this car to work a lot and I am a music lover too.

Value- Mostly has been pointed out by others but I would say that the price trend you see is common for almost ALL high end cars. Even the almighty GT3RS from 2010-11 originally sold for 150k. 1-2 years after launch, I knew someone who had trouble selling his for just over 100k. Imagine, a 40-50k loss on a GT3, let alone an RS. Fast forward a few more years and those same cars are back over list price. I also own a 1M. When that car came out, Randy Pobst said it was the worst car he had ever driven and he hated it. The Cayman R crushed it in the comparo tests. Now, it is a living legend. That same Cayman R has significantly depreciated and my 1M is still worth more than I paid for it 6 years later. For the first couple of years though, they went down about 10-20 grand. Remember that they made 740 1M coupes for the US and over 6000 worldwide. I think current GTS owners have nothing to worry about as long as they hold onto the car for another year or two. Prices will begin to swing back. While I agree BMW is no Ferrari in terms of collector value, I remember when the M3 lightweights were selling for 20-30 k and now they are 80-100k. It just takes time. The Z8 finally rebounded in value in a big way and there were just shy of 6,000 of those worldwide as well.

Is the car worth it? If it makes you smile, then yes. A Hyundai will get you from point A to point B just fine. For me, life is short. If it gives you enjoyment, then don't worry too much what others think.

I get so many thumbs up as I drive, people taking pics on their cell phone, videoing the car. The best part is, that is only from car guys. To most of the world, it is a sleeper. Just another hopped up BMW. To real car guys, it is a unicorn and they are so excited to see it. My humble opinion is prices are highly unlikely to go much lower and as others have said, I think a lot of people are going to be moping around, telling stories about how they 'could' have gotten a GTS for 'only' 100k and now look what they're worth. I know I wish I hadn't sold my GT3 RS as I lost a lot of money on that car. Timing is everything.

Last edited by johnr265; 11-25-2017 at 12:20 AM..
Appreciate 4
Y8HOO191.50
CanAutM321104.50
mrfox148.00
      11-25-2017, 10:22 AM   #104
hi_officer
Private First Class
150
Rep
188
Posts

Drives: something fast
Join Date: May 2017
Location: somewhere slow

iTrader: (0)

BOOM! Happy Holidays Boys --> https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...2768/overview/

Under $100k for an M4 GTS with <700 miles!
Appreciate 0
      11-25-2017, 10:26 AM   #105
aBMWfan
Banned
United_States
1193
Rep
3,670
Posts

Drives: 08' M3/'15 M4/ '06 M3/ '09 M3/
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Thousand Oaks

iTrader: (11)

Whoever paid over MSRP got screwed!
Appreciate 0
      11-25-2017, 10:37 AM   #106
jpdchicago
Major
United_States
1359
Rep
1,394
Posts

Drives: M4 CSL, X3MC
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Chicago area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
BOOM! Happy Holidays Boys --> https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...2768/overview/

Under $100k for an M4 GTS with <700 miles!
Wow!
At that price it is tempting to buy another one just to leave at the track...
I think someone on this forum is already doing that.
Sure is a great deal!
Appreciate 1
      11-25-2017, 10:39 AM   #107
hi_officer
Private First Class
150
Rep
188
Posts

Drives: something fast
Join Date: May 2017
Location: somewhere slow

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenM4Dominate View Post
Whoever paid over MSRP got screwed!
I still think it has potential to go up in price due to its limited number, but the next gen of M cars will have a roll in that, too.

And the only ones getting screwed are the ones selling. Wonder what trade-in dealers are offering? Seems like the owners here are happy.

The pricing sure is strange though... I sold my $75k M4 for $65k with 9000 miles back in 2016 (so 13.3% depreciation over 9k miles). The link above is 25% depreciation in less than 1k miles... geesh
Appreciate 1
ff160046.00
      11-25-2017, 10:51 AM   #108
jpdchicago
Major
United_States
1359
Rep
1,394
Posts

Drives: M4 CSL, X3MC
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Chicago area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
I still think it has potential to go up in price due to its limited number, but the next gen of M cars will have a roll in that, too.

And the only ones getting screwed are the ones selling. Wonder what trade-in dealers are offering? Seems like the owners here are happy.

The pricing sure is strange though... I sold my $75k M4 for $65k with 9000 miles back in 2016 (so 13.3% depreciation over 9k miles). The link above is 25% depreciation in less than 1k miles... geesh
The ones selling less than a year after purchase are the ones who bought the car for the wrong reasons. Either intended to flip it (probably most of the sellers out there) or thought it would be a daily driver.
People should do their homework before they buy such a car. One of the best mixed road/track car IMO, even at MSRP.
It is good to know that another real car enthusiast will give it a good home this time. Hopefully on the track.

Last edited by jpdchicago; 11-25-2017 at 01:01 PM..
Appreciate 3
redrumm3417.00
VCP1390.00
      11-25-2017, 10:55 AM   #109
Parabolica
Major
Canada
581
Rep
1,120
Posts

Drives: '18 M3 ZCP 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Crazy. The Canadian market is still quite high. I haven't seen a GTS for less than 160k. Most are 160-190K CAN. My dealer even refuses to sell theirs. They prefer to hang on to it for some reason. I am guessing they are waiting for the prices to hit over 200K.
Appreciate 1
      11-25-2017, 12:46 PM   #110
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdchicago View Post
Wow!
At that price it is tempting to buy another one just to leave at the track...
I think someone on this forum is already doing that.
Sure is a great deal!
If I could get one that cheap in Canada, I would consider buying it and swapping for the M4CS interior (rear seats mostly)
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:40 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST