2018 BMW M3 CS priced at $97,400

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by minn19

For the record I don't care what somebody does with their money or their car, but is interesting to talk about. I see badge whores on both ends. It is funny you bring up the 320. I actually feel bad for them that they didn't buy a loaded Accord or Camry that they would probably be much happier with.

I also see it on the other end and I know you do to (which is where your utter hatred for Porsche maybe comes in). You see the rich guy buy the Porsche/Ferrari/GT350R/ZL1 etc that he has no idea how to drive in a quick manner around a track or worse is downright dangerous to everybody else out there. Or they buy them and stuff them in a garage for an "investment" . Any way I see all kinds of them. My last track day I had a guy in a brand new ZL1 that was clearly outmatched by everybody else even guys in stock WRXs. He would barely let anybody by and especially wasn't going to let me buy in my GT350 because he was a Chevy guy. He was driving off track throwing rocks at people's cars and all over the track. He was very popular in the pits/staging area.

Anyway sorry for the OT. I just feel with each M3/4 edition they just keep missing the mark and are doing it on purpose IMO. If this had some actual substance (instead of just software, hood and tuning tweaks) over a ZCP besides the entire catalog of supposed M Performance parts I would be more intrigued. But, who am I to talk as BMWs business plan is apparently working as people keep gobbling them up regardless of how badly they are being gouged. I just wonder how this business plan will hold up over time and when the economy inevitably does a downturn. I wonder what the next M3/4 base price is going to be.

Last, I'm no Porsche fanboy and have the same issues with them that I have with BMW. I love my GT350, but I would also like a sports car with more refinement and luxury that can still be tracked, which is why I still hang around checking out the BMWs latest offerings. For me and I'm guessing a lot of others when you cross the 100k mark it is something psychological that says if I'm going that far, I might as well keep going. Hence why I would take a 911 GTS over a CS of any kind as it stands. I feel like I'm getting much more for my money performance wise etc.

Yes, usually on the low end of a certain car you'll have badge whores buying it and then on the high end of that same manufacturer you'll have people jumping ship just due to the badge.
The only redeeming quality of the 320i is that it can be tuned to 290hp just like the 328i as it's the same engine

I haven't seen the newbies being cretins on the track for a long time because they aren't in the black/red run groups. I am definitely bothered by the blind fanboy-ism which is not backed up at the track, which is my measuring stick. If you brought a F1 car to the track that's great, but please don't tell me about how your wheels are $8k and instead worry about driving fast. And I'd also tell them to stop keyboard racing and instead learn how to drive, because although the 911 is the fastest car on the planet and created by God himself, this is not reflected in track days. So perhaps Porsche should focus on making cars people can actually drive.
And yes, I'm sure the GT3s that are completely stripped out with roll cages, 3 way suspensions, aftermarket aero and running Michelin race slicks and just at the track to waddle around slowly.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by KillrM3

Uh no. On average an IP car would be faster on most tracks than a bone stock 911. Tires, aero, and weight alone. To give you an example at Sebring most IP cars are in the mid to high 2:20's. With an above average driver a base 911 stock would be in the mid 2:30's at best. That being said it would take a GT3, GT3 RS, Cayman GT4, or 911 Turbo to be lapping in the ball park of an IP car and that usually is with an R Compound tire.

To give you another example I was in a M4 GTS that did a 2:26xx lap time first weekend out with the car which is crazy fast for a heavy street car. Now with Hoosier R6's, seat time, and proper set up I would not be surprised if a 2:24xx lap time would be possible. That to me was very impressive. This is real world experience and not someone reading what someone said on the internet or what thinks might happen.

Don't feed the troll. This guy (not you, the guy you responded to) has been banned a couple times already.

All his posts... he only speaks about how wonderful his VAG products are. Rinse and repeat. No clue what he's doing in a BMW M forum! I guess evangelizing us heathens?

[Parabolica]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

M3 CS already comes standard with DCT

You quoted $77K for the M3 in your previous post. That's without DCT. If you factor in another 4K for DCT, you are at 81K. If you used the 77K to estimate the cost of the M3 CS, then it would be higher. Correct?

[hellrotm]

It’s weird...A week ago I went to a three day PCA/BMWCCA combo event at COTA and everyone got along just fine.

It seemed liked GT3’s and GT4’s out numbered BMW’s 5 to 1. They were quick too.

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Yes.
You won't find me in the Camaro forum talking about how all those cars are pieces of junk and they should save their rupees to buy an M3, because 'that's where it's at'.

You also won't ever hear me say that I prefer a civic M3 to any Camaro ever built, including the ZL1 1LE, because 'over 70k I'd never buy a Camaro'.
So please, go criticize the other 8000 people who have said on this thread they could never stomach an M3 at 100k because for that price they'd buy a base amish edition 911.

I doubt it would even see a two second gain on a 3 mike track. Them Hoosiers on a civic m4 would likely give it a bigger edge than the CS package car out the box. That 15 or so HP gain over the comp m4 will vary a lot simply based on conditions.

Let's keep it real. 99% of the people who are going to buy this will never track it.

The m4 GTS is a prime example of my point. Every reason anyone thinks this car is more track capable is only amplified with the GTS.

Most people bought the GTS because it's a really cool and limited 'exclusive car'. Many were bought because they think it will be a collector item. ( I think it will be ) it doesn't matter if Ford Mustang gt350's are spanking it for less or if gt3's are only slightly more expensive at MSRP but a league ahead in performance.

The f8x cs are really cool cars. Loaded with nice interior and cool little options which deviate it from the civic m4's. It is meant to appeal to collectors. That audience doesn't care if they can have two camaro's for the same price - it isn't the same product.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

And laugh even harder.

Right dude. That huge couch on the trunk looks ridiculous. Shit is straight out of a Van Diesel fast and furious flick.

Those things are selling for under $100K now.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by KillrM3

Uh no. On average an IP car would be faster on most tracks than a bone stock 911. Tires, aero, and weight alone. To give you an example at Sebring most IP cars are in the mid to high 2:20's. With an above average driver a base 911 stock would be in the mid 2:30's at best. That being said it would take a GT3, GT3 RS, Cayman GT4, or 911 Turbo to be lapping in the ball park of an IP car and that usually is with an R Compound tire.

To give you another example I was in a M4 GTS that did a 2:26xx lap time first weekend out with the car which is crazy fast for a heavy street car. Now with Hoosier R6's, seat time, and proper set up I would not be surprised if a 2:24xx lap time would be possible. That to me was very impressive. This is real world experience and not someone reading what someone said on the internet or what thinks might happen.

I disagree. I’ve seen Jimmy Martin run 2.20 in an old gen Cayman R at Sebring. The current Carrera S is far faster and would be comparable on an R compound to that IP Car. Id guess around 2:20 for one. A 991 GT3 RS stock at Sebring will run 2:14-2:15s bone stock. Just check Renist.

My other point is that, Porsche’s are simply very fast cars on track. Always have been and HPDE days are not representative of real racing.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Parabolica

You quoted $77K for the M3 in your previous post. That's without DCT. If you factor in another 4K for DCT, you are at 81K. If you used the 77K to estimate the cost of the M3 CS, then it would be higher. Correct?

I compared a base M3 in Canada to a base M3 in the US (adding 19” wheels since they are standard in Canada) for ~1.13 ratio. Applying this ratio to the US $97.4k price of the M3CS makes it ~$111k in Canada.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Don't feed the troll. This guy (not you, the guy you responded to) has been banned a couple times already.

All his posts... he only speaks about how wonderful his VAG products are. Rinse and repeat. No clue what he's doing in a BMW M forum! I guess evangelizing us heathens?

Not speaking for him - but I happen to like both companies and their respective products. BMW has traditionally done a nice job providing the dual purpose car with their M products, and is definitely the value proposition between the two brands. I think that position is harder to sustain with the CS or GTS because you’re losing more of the duality from a usage standpoint, and you’re getting to a price point where “better” options are within reach.

I do feel, from my personal experience, that the P car is superior to the M counterpart, when it comes to both objective and subjective attributes. But it’s also a higher cost of ownership (hence why I came back to the F80).

But I do think I will be back in a P car someday, and as I said before, I hope to be able to have the M3 for normal driving and a 981 or 991 just for thrashing.

[KillrM3]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

I disagree. I’ve seen Jimmy Martin run 2.20 in an old gen Cayman R at Sebring. The current Carrera S is far faster and would be comparable on an R compound to that IP Car. Id guess around 2:20 for one. A 991 GT3 RS stock at Sebring will run 2:14-2:15s bone stock. Just check Renist.

My other point is that, Porsche’s are simply very fast cars on track. Always have been and HPDE days are not representative of real racing.

Key word in your post is "guess". Yeah a street car is as fast as a cup car at Sebring.

[Jono2112]

Originally Posted by DrunkTyrion

You're right I speced my 18 M4 to be at around 113 after taxes and warranty

That's base 911 territory. But the m4 does have a more usable back seat. Coin flip?

[DrunkTyrion]

Originally Posted by Jono2112

That's base 911 territory. But the m4 does have a more usable back seat. Coin flip?

Haha nah I didn't buy it though. That price range was haunting me. But I personally wouldn't get a Porsche. Just not a huge fan. Plus that crap about it being a comfortable daily is bs. I'm 6'2 so it ain't so comfortable for me unless it's a Macan or something

[Jono2112]

Originally Posted by DrunkTyrion

Haha nah I didn't buy it though. That price range was haunting me. But I personally wouldn't get a Porsche. Just not a huge fan. Plus that crap about it being a comfortable daily is bs. I'm 6'2 so it ain't so comfortable for me unless it's a Macan or something

Agreed, they really aren't a cross shop unless your just talking about a track car.
My 944 was a comfortable daily back in the 1990s, but I'm 5'10", I was 29-34 years old, and I turned my own wrench. Now I'm 52 and don't even have jack stands anymore. That's why I got the M235i. Affordable, usable daily, enough of "///M" for me, it smokes the local mustangs at the stop light (except the newest ones), I can drive it to the track, road trip to key west, and I've even picked up a 55" TV with it. I will keep it until it needs anything expensive fixed out of warranty, and I'd likely replace it with another 2, 3, or 4 series. But I really want to get a used cayman for the weekends. I like different things about BMW and Porsche. With the M track-ready cars going up ti $100,000 in price, you could get two cars, one for daily and one for weekends. A track ready M3 is a good deal if you can really also daily it. But a used 3 M-sport with an old 911 or cayman could cost the same. Of course you really have to like Porsches. And paying two insurances!!! I have an expensive addiction!

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I think part of the CS improvements are EDC, e-diff, DCT and EPS tuning to take better advantage of stickier R-compound tires and beefier torque curve. Will it make a substantial difference in terms of lap times for most amateurs? Most likely not. But I think it will contribute to make the car feel "tighter" and more enjoyable when driving on track.

Maybe so CAM. But, the PSC2 are optional, no? I think you had mentioned that in a prior thread. If that's indeed the case, most of that isn't even included in the $97.5k base price of the car. The DCT tweaks might be. But again, we are talking about what are likely minor tweaks from the ZCP package anyway.

The F8X does not really need better brakes IMO, so that is a moot point.

Fair enough. Even so, track specific pads would still be a marked improvement over the stock ones once you to go for more than a couple laps. Should BMW put track pads on a factory car? No, probably not. Still the fact remains that if you are buying an M3 and planning to go to the track, when determining where to allocate money toward that goal, putting a few hundred on track pads makes a lot more sense than starting out by shelling out $30k+ to upgrade to the CS.

Let's see if BMW upgrades their fleet of M3's at their performance schools to M3 CS. What do you think? I doubt it. Perhaps they'll receive a few - we'll see.

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Although no regular human will achieve the NRing time of the base/ZCP/CS/GTS, the delta is still meaningful.

But we're way off course from where the discussion started which is basic value.

The M3 CS does have some added content with real value, sure. But the car is simply not offering a $30k better track experience than a base M3. I've already presented a few reasoned arguments as to why.

If you want another, look at value within the existing portfolio of the M3 family. How about a ZCP M3? Let's say for the sake of argument that that one does indeed offer a $5k better track experience than a base M3. I can get on board with that. After all, you do get 19 more hp, which is probably just enough to be noticeable, and you also get some tweaks of the variety that CAM mentioned, not to mention wider rubber. And heck, it comes with some nice visual improvements on top of all of that. So, sure, that one isn't too hard to argue the value of.

But now you want me to pony up $25k (5x the price of the competition package) more for 10 more hp, and some more aesthetic changes that, while nice to look at sure, are really just a different take on the same car? To me it is easy to see why, by and large, the tone of this thread is that the numbers just don't work. It's just not an easy sell no matter how hard they are trying with the marketing campaign.

I am not aligned, but we can agree to disagree. This for me is exactly the same as the 911 vs the 911 S vs the 911 GTS. Small performance upgrades, large price deltas. It becomes a 'speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?' type question.

I think the reason why so few people agree those two situations are really equal is elementary.

With the 911, we don't have the situation where there is a variant/package that offers reasonable content: ~5% more power, some chassis tweaks, and some aesthetic upgrades for a less than 10% up-charge from the base model... *and then* another 911 variant that offers a tiny 2% additional bump in power, some marginal additional chassis tweaks, and some different aesthetic enhancements, for... wait for it... nearly 50% more over the price of the base car.

Instead, with a 911 what do you get if you pony up 50% more cash over the base Carrera? You get a GT3, that's what. If the M3 CS, offered content anything like what the GT3 has, would we even be having this discussion? No. If the 911 GT3 offered content anything like what the M3 CS does, would it have anywhere near the cult-like status it does? No way in hell.

[DrunkTyrion]

Originally Posted by Jono2112

Agreed, they really aren't a cross shop unless your just talking about a track car.
My 944 was a comfortable daily back in the 1990s, but I'm 5'10", I was 29-34 years old, and I turned my own wrench. Now I'm 52 and don't even have jack stands anymore. That's why I got the M235i. Affordable, usable daily, enough of "///M" for me, it smokes the local mustangs at the stop light (except the newest ones), I can drive it to the track, road trip to key west, and I've even picked up a 55" TV with it. I will keep it until it needs anything expensive fixed out of warranty, and I'd likely replace it with another 2, 3, or 4 series. But I really want to get a used cayman for the weekends. I like different things about BMW and Porsche. With the M track-ready cars going up ti $100,000 in price, you could get two cars, one for daily and one for weekends. A track ready M3 is a good deal if you can really also daily it. But a used 3 M-sport with an old 911 or cayman could cost the same. Of course you really have to like Porsches. And paying two insurances!!! I have an expensive addiction!

Haha I feel the same way. I would love to work on my car but for Porsche, at a mid to high 6 figure I wanna be able to already track and daily it not just choose one or the other. The M3 is a good balance the M4 is doable too considering my height. But the Porsche I can't compromise with. Don't worry we all have expensive hobbies on here

[KillrM3]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

Right dude. That huge couch on the trunk looks ridiculous. Shit is straight out of a Van Diesel fast and furious flick.

Those things are selling for under $100K now.

Never heard of Van Diesel. Is that a shoe brand or jeans?

[Jono2112]

Originally Posted by DrunkTyrion

Haha I feel the same way. I would love to work on my car but for Porsche, at a mid to high 6 figure I wanna be able to already track and daily it not just choose one or the other. The M3 is a good balance the M4 is doable too considering my height. But the Porsche I can't compromise with. Don't worry we all have expensive hobbies on here

I'm sure you'd fit in the 911 for the track, but as a daily it would be tight and the frunk and back "seats" are single grocery bag holders! The cayman is likely a nonstarter for anyone over 6'2". My brother is 6'4" and was miserable in my 944 and he currently has a 5 m-sport that he loves.
BMW is a luxury AND a performance brand, Porsche is a performance OR luxury brand. I'm sure the macan, cayenne, and new panamera have great performance and you'd fit in them for daily use, but I doubt you'll see them on the track that often. An M3/4 you fit, you track, you daily. It sounds like a dream car to me. The question today though is can a base M3/4 do all those jobs, or will the zcp do it, or is the cs necessary? Or even a GTS if you can find one?
Me, I'm sticking to used cars. The more used the better!

[jpdchicago]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

What dealer? Guess they don’t keep up with current market prices. GTS market is hurting.

With M3 CS at $97,000 with no OLED and no CCB, the GTS market will stop hurting in a heartbeat. M4 CS pricing probably even worse.
A used Gts makes a lot of sense now...

[DrunkTyrion]

Originally Posted by Jono2112

I'm sure you'd fit in the 911 for the track, but as a daily it would be tight and the frunk and back "seats" are single grocery bag holders! The cayman is likely a nonstarter for anyone over 6'2". My brother is 6'4" and was miserable in my 944 and he currently has a 5 m-sport that he loves.
BMW is a luxury AND a performance brand, Porsche is a performance OR luxury brand. I'm sure the macan, cayenne, and new panamera have great performance and you'd fit in them for daily use, but I doubt you'll see them on the track that often. An M3/4 you fit, you track, you daily. It sounds like a dream car to me. The question today though is can a base M3/4 do all those jobs, or will the zcp do it, or is the cs necessary? Or even a GTS if you can find one?
Me, I'm sticking to used cars. The more used the better!

You're right. I think you brought up some good points. For me though Porsche was just always something that was a little overhyped. Yes the 918 and turbo is amazing but at that price range I can find something better. The need to both qualify for a comfortable daily here in LA in traffic and track use every now and then would be great. Or I can just do what you suggested which is to buy a used 911 and track it only but that's still quite a hefty amount for a "just track car" a lotus or Miata would fulfill my suicidal needs

[minn19]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

With M3 CS at $97,000 with no OLED and no CCB, the GTS market will stop hurting in a heartbeat. M4 CS pricing probably even worse.
A used Gts makes a lot of sense now...

It was said earlier, unless you can figure out how to get the roll cage and back seats in n out fairly easy, I'm not sure it will affect them. Like all two seaters it is a limited market and then add in the extremes of the GTS it is even more limited.

[Jono2112]

Originally Posted by DrunkTyrion

You're right. I think you brought up some good points. For me though Porsche was just always something that was a little overhyped. Yes the 918 and turbo is amazing but at that price range I can find something better. The need to both qualify for a comfortable daily here in LA in traffic and track use every now and then would be great. Or I can just do what you suggested which is to buy a used 911 and track it only but that's still quite a hefty amount for a "just track car" a lotus or Miata would fulfill my suicidal needs

A Miata is always the right answer for the track!!! As long as the track allows ragtops and you replace the speedometer with a calendar. Not fast but cheep, light, fun, and a ton of cheap aftermarket stuff. A new one is what, $30k? You can always go turbo or supercharged for about $5-$6k more plus install. It still ends up cheaper than a track capable 911 or cayman and if $100k is your budget, you can also get a new basic M3/4 along with a track ready Miata. I'm not sure the CS is worth the price as everyone is saying.
I'm afraid owning that 944 twenty years ago has infected me with incurable Porsche fever. My weekender has to be a Porsche. I prefer 911 or cayman, but my budget will be more like a boxster. Also a ragtop will be a negotiating point with my wife. She likes the sunshine! And she loves the track option. It's good to have first world problems. BMW VS Porsche? 911 VS cayman. Miata vs boxster. Life is good.

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by Jason

The 2018 BMW M3 CS price will start at $97,400 in the U.S. and 86,380 in the UK.

See all the official specs and wallpapers at: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1437483
And our live debut pics from the LA show at: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1444428

Give it to me for 90k and I'll take one... deal?