Reported SCH due to engine design flaw while using CBC?

[Reprosal]

Not arguing it’s a full solution. Just think that it’s blown way out of proportion for people running stage 2 or below and only 93/91/91ACN fuel.

Also bagging it will play a huge role too, as with any vehicle..

[MisterF80M3]

Originally Posted by FriedPiston

Correct, my answer pertains solely to my setup. However, you don't need my setup to spin the crank hub or experience any kind of mechanical failure. There's enough data on this subject for people to read up on, like this highly informative video for example:

Watch the first half of this video a few times, all the way up to the part where they try to break the crank bolt loose using a cheater bar. While it's possible for the bolt to loosen over time, either due to improper applied torque value at the factory, or engine vibration, the video will give you an idea of how much force is needed to loosen the bolt completely. And if the bolt was somehow loose from the factory, the crank hub spinning would likely take place early in the engine's life rather than thousands of miles later.

Meanwhile the friction disc that's keeping everything together is a known weak point. So if one were to place a bet on which component will fail first, which would it be? There's a reason why no manufacturer advertises the CBC as a full solution...

I think we have been through this 10 pages ago. Just read this thread from beginning to end and it has all the information you listed.

This summarizes the whole thread, IMO.

Quote from Deeldo:

Hub fix with no CBC = spinorama

No Hub fix with CBC = Never Spinorama

No Hub fix with No CBC = Spinorama

It looks like CBC is required only

[FriedPiston]

Here's another one.

[Ejones4541]

Not sure why I even clicked on this post…it's about as captivating as a Kardashian blog.

Carry on guys.

[Reprosal]

Originally Posted by FriedPiston

Here's another one.

Full specs would be helpful. Brand of tune, fuel type, GTS Flash? And activity of the time.

With this many causes (regardless of protection) I would gladly take accurate data submittied and run RCA’s on them to distinguish a better data trend than ‘vote here if spun over 500hp’. Evidence is needed.

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

As I stated in other threads, been a while since I've seen a CBC only car spin a hub, but I've definitely seen several. It happens, it's much less common with CBC only, and if used in conjunction with a hub, risk is retired.

It's like it's coming full circle. I've communicated there are 2 main causes of SCH. We demonstrate how CBC addresses one of them, the spline lock V2 addresses the other. Make your own decisions and assess your own risk accordingly, but eventually the general consensus will gravitate back towards what I've been stating for many many months, if not over years; the complete solution is both.

It's not a marketing ploy. That's no conspiracy theory, that's just foolish logic; we didn't invent a problem to make a fake solution, we got tired of spinning hubs EVERY time we went out with the big power N54. That gets old. Flight. 5 hour drive. Shake down pass ok. Turn boost up *SPIN*. Do that a few times and you, too, will sit down and crack that nut one way or the other. Just be forewarned, there will be some dudes on the internet that think you're doing it for the money, 'course they weren't there helping you turn wrenches at 10pm trying to get a race car ready to go again. One has time for introspection in these moments.

Anyway.... for those just tuning in, CBC only is a great inexpensive means of reducing SCH risk. If you want to kill the risk, do CBC and hub. If you want to start at ground zero and re-engineer the whole thing and figure it out on your own, enjoy the ride, will see you right here in a few months if you do the work right. Hell, if you don't like our hub (V2 is IMHO the best, and has zero failures with many hundreds sold, need to look into that so I can say thousands soon) put a different solution in but do not run no solution and pretend you are immune. That's like wearing bulletproof socks and nothing else to a house of ill repute and thinking you're going to be just fine doing whatever comes naturally. Well.... maybe.... but more likely not. This happy post sponsored by two (2) pieces of pizza for lunch at my favorite place.

Cheers,
Chris

[Reprosal]

Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech

As I stated in other threads, been a while since I've seen a CBC only car spin a hub, but I've definitely seen several. It happens, it's much less common with CBC only, and if used in conjunction with a hub, risk is retired.

It's like it's coming full circle. I've communicated there are 2 main causes of SCH. We demonstrate how CBC addresses one of them, the spline lock V2 addresses the other. Make your own decisions and assess your own risk accordingly, but eventually the general consensus will gravitate back towards what I've been stating for many many months, if not over years; the complete solution is both.

It's not a marketing ploy. That's no conspiracy theory, that's just foolish logic; we didn't invent a problem to make a fake solution, we got tired of spinning hubs EVERY time we went out with the big power N54. That gets old. Flight. 5 hour drive. Shake down pass ok. Turn boost up *SPIN*. Do that a few times and you, too, will sit down and crack that nut one way or the other. Just be forewarned, there will be some dudes on the internet that think you're doing it for the money, 'course they weren't there helping you turn wrenches at 10pm trying to get a race car ready to go again. One has time for introspection in these moments.

Anyway.... for those just tuning in, CBC only is a great inexpensive means of reducing SCH risk. If you want to kill the risk, do CBC and hub. If you want to start at ground zero and re-engineer the whole thing and figure it out on your own, enjoy the ride, will see you right here in a few months if you do the work right. Hell, if you don't like our hub (V2 is IMHO the best, and has zero failures with many hundreds sold, need to look into that so I can say thousands soon) put a different solution in but do not run no solution and pretend you are immune. That's like wearing bulletproof socks and nothing else to a house of ill repute and thinking you're going to be just fine doing whatever comes naturally. Well.... maybe.... but more likely not. This happy post sponsored by two (2) pieces of pizza for lunch at my favorite place.

Cheers,
Chris

I am not saying anything is a marketing ploy. I am just saying we have a lot of data missing from some of the causes. Sure the hub spun, but there could be causes based on flash brand, DCT GTS flash etc that could contribute to the issue too.

Some people have ran JB4 just fine with no fix, some people spun hun shortly after bootmod and DCT flash. Would just like more data in the tables to be collected.

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech

As I stated in other threads, been a while since I've seen a CBC only car spin a hub, but I've definitely seen several. It happens, it's much less common with CBC only, and if used in conjunction with a hub, risk is retired.

It's like it's coming full circle. I've communicated there are 2 main causes of SCH. We demonstrate how CBC addresses one of them, the spline lock V2 addresses the other. Make your own decisions and assess your own risk accordingly, but eventually the general consensus will gravitate back towards what I've been stating for many many months, if not over years; the complete solution is both.

It's not a marketing ploy. That's no conspiracy theory, that's just foolish logic; we didn't invent a problem to make a fake solution, we got tired of spinning hubs EVERY time we went out with the big power N54. That gets old. Flight. 5 hour drive. Shake down pass ok. Turn boost up *SPIN*. Do that a few times and you, too, will sit down and crack that nut one way or the other. Just be forewarned, there will be some dudes on the internet that think you're doing it for the money, 'course they weren't there helping you turn wrenches at 10pm trying to get a race car ready to go again. One has time for introspection in these moments.

Anyway.... for those just tuning in, CBC only is a great inexpensive means of reducing SCH risk. If you want to kill the risk, do CBC and hub. If you want to start at ground zero and re-engineer the whole thing and figure it out on your own, enjoy the ride, will see you right here in a few months if you do the work right. Hell, if you don't like our hub (V2 is IMHO the best, and has zero failures with many hundreds sold, need to look into that so I can say thousands soon) put a different solution in but do not run no solution and pretend you are immune. That's like wearing bulletproof socks and nothing else to a house of ill repute and thinking you're going to be just fine doing whatever comes naturally. Well.... maybe.... but more likely not. This happy post sponsored by two (2) pieces of pizza for lunch at my favorite place.

Cheers,
Chris

Good to have the old Chris back with his awesome responses!

It's really odd that some people think its a marketing ploy.

[fiveohwblow]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

Good to have the old Chris back with his awesome responses!

It's really odd that some people think its a marketing ploy.

I believe it’s very easy to witness the fear based tactics simply on the division of belief alone, that comes mostly from the shops who make a killing on this particular issue. It’s evidence of existence is not in question. Similar to our little viral friend that shut down the entire world last year, when it’s the lower half of single digits, the attention paid should fit the issue. It simply doesn’t.

I find it hard to believe there is even a discussion on this any longer. It’s been said ad nauseam; can happen stock or modified. Can not ever happen.

Risk increases as power does.
CBC is less expensive and works most always.
Upgrade to E85, anything other than “full solution” is a risk, but one many are willing to take. Including myself.

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

Good to have the old Chris back with his awesome responses!

It's really odd that some people think its a marketing ploy.

I appreciate that, thanks. FWIW, I'm not on commission. Tony offered it to me way back at the start but I told him I like keeping my motivation pure, just pay me hourly or at a salary. Sure, the extra kick is nice, but this is not a full time gig for me. I'd rather take a little extra time and deal with people as I can. Tony accepts this; it brings another dimension to the team.

What people have to understand, pragmatically, is that regardless of the inclination (I have none; it is not in my value system, but I don't expect that to be bought wholesale; that's ok), I do not have the time or effort. I'm just an old(er) grumpy engineer that doesn't like a lot of crybaby engineers sniffling about "maybe" this could happen. I like TESTING. Spent most of my career there or associated with it. I'll tell you the straight poop right now; you slap a CBC only on your car, throw some upgraded turbos on with some ethanol and your silly backside will be spinning a hub eventually. I shoot it straight because that's what I would want to hear, not because I get a $5.21 kickback and a free Happy Meal from each sale.

Off topic but what I use is simply empathy, albeit tactical; I put myself in your shoes -best I can- and from what the customer tells me I then use my own knowledge as an extension of their own wishes -again, best I can. I'm good at it but not perfect by any means. I have told at least half a dozen dudes in the past year that I'd chance doing a CBC only due to their specific circumstances. When someone tells me their turbos are blown, first thing I do is at least a quick checklist to make sure it's not something silly like vacuum leaks, or jacked up actuators. If you want to know the truth, flawed humans as we all are, it's because I 100% believe that the best customers are repeat customers, and that happens when trust happens. Trust is established over time and many provings. Doesn't always work out, but that's the goal. Again, this isn't the best strictly business/growth strategy, but it's a good mix in a growing industry to keep yourself and your values planted. If that sounds sanctimonious, I apologize, I assure you I'm still an a-hole IRL, and now with about 400% more grumpiness due to my stupid hands not working well (Note to the Good Lord and the Fates; I remain grateful for my general existence and mobility regardless of internet ramblings. This message authorized by VTT Chris). I just won't lie to you beautiful SOB's.

Since the haters demand a sacrifice, I'll leave this one; of the times I've seen SCH, a generous portion of the time the valves were ok -a leak down test will confirm this. We're stacking variables, so you all have to know the possibility exists that you take 'er out for a Sunday drive and you slip the hub, bend ALL the valves, and get a speeding ticket in a school zone all at once. I just haven't seen it happen much. Stick that feather in your beautifully defiant "it ain't gon' happen to meh!" attitude, might get you a few more miles.

With love, respect, and adoration to the masses,

VTT Chris

[mmmmQuattro]

Thanks,
this really clears it up for me.
Looks like there is only one way to do it properly.

over hear in Australia, the 4 pin SSR kit is popular- anything wrong with it?

[mfurse]

Originally Posted by mmmmQuattro

Thanks,
this really clears it up for me.
Looks like there is only one way to do it properly.

over hear in Australia, the 4 pin SSR kit is popular- anything wrong with it?

If you watch the video above it takes about the complexity of drilling the crank with 4 perfect pin holes and making sure they are straight. Nothing wrong with it, just risky and you won't necessarily know if one pin isn't in straight and sheers off. VTT spline lock pushes in under force and locks off (but is hard to then remove) and their own design for crank hub uses a single larger key position for simplicity of installation. Each to their own I guess.

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by mfurse

If you watch the video above it takes about the complexity of drilling the crank with 4 perfect pin holes and making sure they are straight. Nothing wrong with it, just risky and you won't necessarily know if one pin isn't in straight and sheers off. VTT spline lock pushes in under force and locks off (but is hard to then remove) and their own design for crank hub uses a single larger key position for simplicity of installation. Each to their own I guess.

My 4-pin hub included a jig and high speed drill bit for the precise hole size. The bit fits the jig so the holes are aligned and exactly in the right spots, and the jig also helps to bring any shavings out front of the hub. It's not like you use a sharpie and a bubble level...

[Jim45678]

Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech

Not much different considering the German company ordered 10 CBC's about a year ago. We were out of stock, and the website said we had some, they got extremely upset. They canceled the order, sourced one from one of our stocking dealers, and knocked it off.

Your best bet is sticking with the original, which is $80 cheaper...

In the US we will ship the same day ordered with 2-day shipping.

For all the Euro guys. We have a stocking dealer in the UK. RossSport: https://www.rosssport.com/Brands/Var...-M3-M4-N55-S55

They carry the complete spline lock kits and CBC's...

Chris, since the UK left EU do you have any other dealer selling CBC / Spline-lock chs?

I'm planning to be running around 600HP with DP/mid pipe / GTS flash etc probably bootmod or custom maps from local tuner. Still not decided if CBC only or together with spline-lock

[kevinthestan]

Im on stage 1 BM3 OTS, catless dp, chargepipe.

Just going with CBC here getting it done next month.