Who loves their DCT? And 6MT owners have you tried it?

[brocurls]

Originally Posted by N55Msport

Drove both. DCT on the F80 is definitely faster but, to me the manual just looks better. Leather boot, the three M pedals... it just looks proper.
And I dont care about track or lap times.

Same...3 pedals and stick look more in place with how this car vibes

[avantix]

All my cars were manual up to this point including two 335s and an F80 M3 which was tracked for 3 years. Finally switched to DCT on the M4CS and I'll admit it will be hard to go back to that third pedal. I was also in the manual until I die camp and a 15 minute test drive with DCT was never enough to convince me otherwise. After a couple of months in the DCT I can now honestly say that it's just as much fun as a manual and as a big bonus zero chance of a mechanical over rev on track. Came close a couple of times over zealously downshifting a hair early

[GOLFFRR]

I've had a ton of M cars, shoot I lost count . I use to always get 6MT. One time i was not able to get a 6mt bc we didn't have one available for me so i opted for a dct. At first i thought it was boring but overtime i grew to love it! now I prefer it.

[behindthen0thing]

I like the dct allot. I think the dct is great for the m4 and I'd go stick with the m2

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

DCT makes the car so much more faster and modern.

me driving my manual makes it much slower.

but i still drive stick. its all preference. chocolate or vanilla

[Montaver]

I moved from a DCT e90 M3 to manual M2C. The DCT transmission is fantastic on track and superior there no question. DCT is better when driving at 10/10ths as you don't need to take your hands off the wheel, can change mid corner without upsetting the balance of the car, don't need to worry about your foot slipping whilst heel toeing, and no risk of a money shift. However I always felt a lack of engagement on the street. When just putting around the manual add's an extra layer of enjoyment that was missing in DCT.

I like the manual transmission in the M2 a lot, much better than BMW shifters of old. I'll miss the DCT on track but I'll get used to it as overall for me the manual is more enjoyable more of the time.

[DocL]

This is like Mounds vs. Almond Joy.

'Sometimes you feel like a nut; sometimes you don't."

[2011zx10R]

Originally Posted by DocL

This is like Mounds vs. Almond Joy.

'Sometimes you feel like a nut; sometimes you don't."

I actually had a woman tell me she was 'turned on" by me driving a 6 speed manual.

So for that; manual wins!

[superbrew]

I took my father in law for a ride in my DCT M3. After a while, I notice he is looking into the driver's foot well. I asked him what he was looking for and he said a clutch pedal lol. He knew it was sequential, but thought it might be like a motorcycle transmission.

I have driven manual for 18 years before driving the DCT. I do miss the third pedal, but also love the immediate reaction of the transmission. I also like that there is a direct connection to the engine, instead of a torque converter. I like to think of it as an automated manual as opposed to an automatic.

[gatorfast]

DCT is great for ladies and all of the guys who don't know how to drive stick

[kss]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

DCT is great for ladies and all of the guys who don't know how to drive stick

Or guys who do other things than wanting to a spend all of their time playing with their own stick alone.

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by AlpineWhite_SJ

What level of operation is required to drive a DCT? At worst, in sequential/manual shifting mode you pull on a +/- paddle or the lever while pressing the accelerator. You probably have to think about current rpm or rate of acceleration. Easily done with a coffee or breakfast burrito in hand. At best, you just punch it with the gas pedal and drive mode/drive logic does all the shifting at predetermined values for you. Quick yes, but doesn’t require much thought or input on your part for the acceleration and gear selection. That can be a benefit - you can focus on braking, your line for the apex, etc.

Manual on the other hand, does absolutely nothing for you. You have to put in the clutch pedal, you have to move the gear selector to an appropriate gear for the speed and rpm you are in. You have to synchronize clutch pedal motion with gear throw and gas pedal to do it effectively and smoothly. You do any of this wrong and you money shift, grind a gear, stall or bog the motor. It requires more inputs and actions, so it inherently requires you to think and act more - i.e. be "engaged” at all times or you don’t get the desired outcome. You still have to focus on braking, your line, and all the rest.

Not sure how actually driving a DCT is going to magically erase all of those factual differences on how the two differ, and that many MT drivers consider to be part of being engaging. Paddle shifting in a ZF8 to me is like playing a video game - I click and it goes and if I f-up, it corrects me.

Diffrn’t strokes for diffrn’t folks...

You don't have to tell me how to drive either a DCT or a manual transmission, I have both. And I'm not trying to convince you either way.

You're missing the point. Most manual drivers claim certain intangibles that they experience that are specifically related to the operation of a manual transmission, namely that they are more "engaging" or "connected". How do you know that you wouldn't experience the same with a DCT if you actually drove one? Instead you rationalize your choice by simplifying and diminishing the operation of a DCT and glorifying the operation of a manual transmission without actual experience to compare. All of the operations of a manual, once one learns it, become rote behavior. There's very little thinking actually involved once you've learned the basics. It's how we operate most of the time, otherwise "walking and chewing gum" would become much more involved if we had to think about every step all the time.

To me, who's driven a manual for over 50 years, manual enthusiasts take on the behavior of a cult, blindly believing that "their way" is the only way and refusing to believe that anything else is as enjoyable as "rowing the gears" in a manual. Some actually believe that it's superior to driving a DCT, and that somehow driving a DCT makes one less an enthusiast (or even a man, based on some other comments). In my experience, manual lovers are just not willing to concede that I enjoy driving my DCT car just as much as driving my manual car because it threatens their belief system. Like I said, I feel every bit as "engaged" and "connected", regardless whether it's my DCT car or my manual car.

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by behindthen0thing

I like the dct allot. I think the dct is great for the m4 and I'd go stick with the m2

I actually had this choice when I ordered my M4 in late 2015. I was part of a group that got a special allocation of M2s when they were first released (long story, see the August 2016 issue of the BMW CCA publication, Roundel). I could have chosen the M2, which I would have ordered with a manual, but I was already sold on the M4 and the DCT. Everybody in this group that chose the M2 also chose the manual. One person has since traded in his M2 for an M2 Competition with the DCT.

I don't regret my choice.

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

DCT is great for ladies and all of the guys who don't know how to drive stick

Originally Posted by kss

Or guys who do other things than wanting to a spend all of their time playing with their own stick alone.

[Aaaaaaaaa]

My wife would actually drive my car if it was DCT

[DocL]

Originally Posted by 2011zx10R

I actually had a woman tell me she was 'turned on" by me driving a 6 speed manual.

So for that; manual wins!

Until you get married. Then they complain about not being able to drive the car.

[AlpineWhite_SJ]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

You don't have to tell me how to drive either a DCT or a manual transmission, I have both. And I'm not trying to convince you either way.

You're missing the point. Most manual drivers claim certain intangibles that they experience that are specifically related to the operation of a manual transmission, namely that they are more "engaging" or "connected". How do you know that you wouldn't experience the same with a DCT if you actually drove one? Instead you rationalize your choice by simplifying and diminishing the operation of a DCT and glorifying the operation of a manual transmission without actual experience to compare. All of the operations of a manual, once one learns it, become rote behavior. There's very little thinking actually involved once you've learned the basics. It's how we operate most of the time, otherwise "walking and chewing gum" would become much more involved if we had to think about every step all the time.

To me, who's driven a manual for over 50 years, manual enthusiasts take on the behavior of a cult, blindly believing that "their way" is the only way and refusing to believe that anything else is as enjoyable as "rowing the gears" in a manual. Some actually believe that it's superior to driving a DCT, and that somehow driving a DCT makes one less an enthusiast (or even a man, based on some other comments). In my experience, manual lovers are just not willing to concede that I enjoy driving my DCT car just as much as driving my manual car because it threatens their belief system. Like I said, I feel every bit as "engaged" and "connected", regardless whether it's my DCT car or my manual car.

My explanation was why i don’t need to drive a DCT to know it’s not going to offer the same “engagement” to me. I already know the required actions and it isn’t engaging IMHO. I’ve driven the ZF8 in sequential and I know that irrespective of the DCT clutch being more in line with how a manual transmission operates, you drive it in the same fashion - ie via the paddles/shifter or in full drivelogic.

And I know the manual crowd is a cult - you can read several of my prior posts above where i said it was a religious conversation and also pointed out several reasons why it’s valid for people to like a DCT over a manual - faster, allows you to focus on other aspects of driving, etc.

I’m not trying to convince you - it’s fine you’re happy with your DCT and I’m perfectly happy with my 6 speed.

[F82///M]

Originally Posted by Tintking

Then my 2011 335is. Spent 6 years and 60K miles ripping off split second upshifts and downshifts without a problem. Well, there was one problem when the 335is developed a really bad shake/shudder under hard acceleration and my BMW dealer told me I had metal in my transmission fluid and I needed a new transmission...and it would cost $14,000!!! Fortunately they were completely wrong and after getting a few other opinions from independent shops I finally replaced my driveshaft and rear bushings and good as new...

Interesting, I also had 2011 335is just a manual, with the same shake, shudder under hard acceleration, mostly in second gear. It was still under warranty and dealership visit was disappointment. Told them it looks like driveshaft or differential problem but they just went ahead and balanced my tires (I know I should've pushed harder for better diagnostics, at the time didn't really care what happens). Guessing they were too busy doing oil changes and brake fluids or incompetent to find the real problem. After that decided to drive it until something gives up and 2 years later traded it at the same place for an M4. It's funny it never got worse and passengers wouldn't notice unless I told them it's there.

Nice to know what was the problem thank you

Back to thread, I'm usually keeping my vehicles for longer periods of time and outside of warranty so manual was always more desirable due to easier servicing and longevity. Before 335is, for many years had 2002 E39 540i also manual. I've got tired of dealing with the traffic situations, it wasn't fun anymore. After seeing positive feedback from DCT in F10 M5 wasn't even considering manual in M4.

It's been little over a year and a half and not missing clutch pedal at all. With DCT and other settings it feels like I have 3 cars in one. Most of the time it's in D2 mode, sounds like I'm really getting old.

[icebiker]

Originally Posted by SherM4n

some want to be fast; I'd rather be busy.

I think SherM4n put it best.

[2011zx10R]

Originally Posted by AlpineWhite_SJ

My explanation was why i don't need to drive a DCT to know it's not going to offer the same "engagement" to me. I already know the required actions and it isn't engaging IMHO. I've driven the ZF8 in sequential and I know that irrespective of the DCT clutch being more in line with how a manual transmission operates, you drive it in the same fashion - ie via the paddles/shifter or in full drivelogic.

And I know the manual crowd is a cult - you can read several of my prior posts above where i said it was a religious conversation and also pointed out several reasons why it's valid for people to like a DCT over a manual - faster, allows you to focus on other aspects of driving, etc.

I'm not trying to convince you - it's fine you're happy with your DCT and I'm perfectly happy with my 6 speed.

Originally Posted by AlpineWhite_SJ

My explanation was why i don't need to drive a DCT to know it's not going to offer the same "engagement" to me. I already know the required actions and it isn't engaging IMHO. I've driven the ZF8 in sequential and I know that irrespective of the DCT clutch being more in line with how a manual transmission operates, you drive it in the same fashion - ie via the paddles/shifter or in full drivelogic.

And I know the manual crowd is a cult - you can read several of my prior posts above where i said it was a religious conversation and also pointed out several reasons why it's valid for people to like a DCT over a manual - faster, allows you to focus on other aspects of driving, etc.

I'm not trying to convince you - it's fine you're happy with your DCT and I'm perfectly happy with my 6 speed.

For DCT there has to be a part that you appreciate doing nothing.

My first test drive was in a DCT; I've never owned an automatic so DCT was totally foreign.

I'm driving and the car is revving like crazy. I look at the car salesman and I'm bewildered. He said sorry I thought it was in automatic mode.

I did clown around with DCT and it was fun.

I'd have to have one for a few months to see if I'd want a DCT m3

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by AlpineWhite_SJ

What level of operation is required to drive a DCT? At worst, in sequential/manual shifting mode you pull on a +/- paddle or the lever while pressing the accelerator. You probably have to think about current rpm or rate of acceleration. Easily done with a coffee or breakfast burrito in hand. At best, you just punch it with the gas pedal and drive mode/drive logic does all the shifting at predetermined values for you. Quick yes, but doesn’t require much thought or input on your part for the acceleration and gear selection. That can be a benefit - you can focus on braking, your line for the apex, etc.

Manual on the other hand, does absolutely nothing for you. You have to put in the clutch pedal, you have to move the gear selector to an appropriate gear for the speed and rpm you are in. You have to synchronize clutch pedal motion with gear throw and gas pedal to do it effectively and smoothly. You do any of this wrong and you money shift, grind a gear, stall or bog the motor. It requires more inputs and actions, so it inherently requires you to think and act more - i.e. be "engaged” at all times or you don’t get the desired outcome. You still have to focus on braking, your line, and all the rest.

Not sure how actually driving a DCT is going to magically erase all of those factual differences on how the two differ, and that many MT drivers consider to be part of being engaging. Paddle shifting in a ZF8 to me is like playing a video game - I click and it goes and if I f-up, it corrects me.

Diffrn’t strokes for diffrn’t folks...

That's a funny post. Don't you realize that over the years, there are many features that have been added to automate (yes, you read that right, automation does not require electronics) the use of manual transmissions, such as synchromesh so you don't need to match the speed of the cogs, such as clutch dampers so even if you dump the pedal too quickly it still engages smoothly or auto rev match so you don't have to blip the throttle on downshifts. You may not realize it, but even a 6MT does many thing for you .

But I do understand the appeal of a traditional manual transmission and do agree: different strokes for different folks.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

DCT is great for ladies and all of the guys who don't know how to drive stick