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      02-10-2019, 07:45 PM   #67
Ktulu990
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I'm new to this platform but I'm confused about all the fussing on the price when the F8X owners shell out $4k plus for a cat back, $8k for 2 or 3 HUNDRED horsepower seems reasonable to me.

On top of that the product seems top notch and provides a reasonable expectation of longevity on a stock block.
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      02-11-2019, 04:48 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktulu990 View Post
I'm new to this platform but I'm confused about all the fussing on the price when the F8X owners shell out $4k plus for a cat back, $8k for 2 or 3 HUNDRED horsepower seems reasonable to me.

On top of that the product seems top notch and provides a reasonable expectation of longevity on a stock block.
A fool and his money...
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      02-11-2019, 10:16 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackey View Post
No doubt it could be a great product, and I'm familiar with the current issues with back pressure in the manifold, and what we are currently getting for ratios between boost and back pressure. Not to mention I just ordered a stage II+ and I've had some missing pieces on their install kit, so there's that. If this does what they say, it looks like it could perform well, although it appears the spool is pretty late.

For my car I'm planning on running without Meth, port injection, or E85 though (road race car), which limits the amount of power / boost you can run. (100 Octane race fuel) I think the issue I see with this option is you'd really need / want to be pushing the envelop pretty hard 30+ psi, (Port injection, built motor, built head to raise spring pressures, etc...) before an $8K turbo setup starts to make sense on a car that's worth 50K on the used market. Maybe it's just me coming from a place that I can buy a new turbo from Garrett and a custom manifold for significantly less. I just think they're going after a pretty razor thin segment of the market with this pricing. Given there isn't a core, but it's not like the used stock turbos are worth much on the market either.

Given if this was a McLaren 720S I'd probably feel differently. It could just be me though! I see all the people buying 8K wheels so there are people that will spend that.

Sorry for the thread hijack.
We don't feel you're hijacking the thread at all, so no need to apologize. We encourage potential end users to voice their opinions or concerns about our products as this input is valuable as a manufacturer. We appreciate your feedback and honest assessment of our KRAS55Bi's, but want address a couple of discrepancies and concerns you mentioned.

We noticed you may have over looked where we stated in our press release that boost response was decreased via lowered duty cycle to limit torque as a precautionary and preventative measure to reduce the risk of connecting rod failure at the given horsepower level. Our turbos actually spool within a few hundred rpm of stock turbos with the properly attenuated duty cycle input on a stock engine.

You mentioned your vehicle is being used for road race application which is what where we originally started our beta testing on with the race team Strom Motorsports. Due to failures with stock journal bearing turbos and smoking issues on their road course and endurance race cars, they decided to install KRATOS Turbos and have been running them without failure for almost 2 years. Given the fact that our ball bearing technology can handle extremely higher thrust loads and has a significantly higher mechanical efficiency than that of standard journal bearings, this rapidly increases acceleration rate of the rotor group which is a great benefit for road course applications. In addition the reduced back pressure from our manifold design is not realized only at high boost pressures. The positive effect from reduced back pressure is a benefit at any given boost pressure both from a power aspect as well as increased engine reliability, especially for road coarse vehicles. This is one of the major contributing factors as to why our KRAS55Bi's produce significantly more power with less effort even on pump gas vs. any stock turbo style hybrid or casted turbo system on the market. As a result, Strom Motorsports logged continuously lower and more consistent lap times.

Price wise we understand our price point is higher than other S55 options. However, the major differences lay in the quality, engineering, technology, power output,, reliability/durability, warranty, etc. These are the key differences when dealing with a True OEM Style Turbo Manufacturer. Yes, you could purchase a custom Garrett Twin Turbo Kit. Although, that would not fit like OEM style stock turbos and would require new downpipes, intercooler piping, intercooler, custom lines, custom inlets, etc. You would also be sacrificing OEM style drivability with large amounts of lag to make power in the upper rpm band. This is due in part to the fact that larger custom twin turbos system use universal turbos rather than a turbo system engineered and designed for a specific vehicle application. Also, current Garrett style offerings that we are aware of start at the same retail price as our KRAS55Bi and go well beyond our retail price depending on turbo options.

Hopefully, this helps clarify a few things even if it doesn't change your opinion about or product or price point. You're entitled to your opinion and we respect that. We will be releasing new data this week of the same KRAS55Bi's on a built engine S55 and all we can say is that the results are astonishing to say the least, so stay tuned!

Last edited by Sales@KRATOS; 02-12-2019 at 05:45 AM..
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      02-11-2019, 11:24 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_f87 View Post
Mr. Bill, I think you should take a deeper look into these turbos, and how they are different than pure. I honestly dont know much about VTT but all I know is that pure are not great, unless if you are going for their stage 2+.
Additionally, Kratos use higher grade material and ceramic ball bearings which is not found in competitors. If that is not enough, you must realize that they have done this with stock internals thanks to their low back pressure allowing you to run the turbos on 30+ psi without breaking your connecting rods.
For the pricier version you are buying a titanium turbo charger, ever seen one of those for the S55 probably not.
And to end this post with the best part. You dont need to send in your cores, you get to keep them, and the assembly is full bolt on.
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      02-11-2019, 11:30 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktulu990 View Post
I'm new to this platform but I'm confused about all the fussing on the price when the F8X owners shell out $4k plus for a cat back, $8k for 2 or 3 HUNDRED horsepower seems reasonable to me.

On top of that the product seems top notch and provides a reasonable expectation of longevity on a stock block.
We appreciate the positive feedback! However, we do have to point out that it's $7895 for 2 or 3 hundred more horsepower on a stock engine, not a built one. The power output is exponentially higher for the same $7895 KRAS55Bi Turbo System on a built engine. Without letting the cat out of the bag, we feel many potential buyers will be pleasantly surprised and blown away with the new built engine results being released in the next few days!

Last edited by Sales@KRATOS; 02-11-2019 at 12:00 PM..
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      02-12-2019, 06:30 AM   #72
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What People forget is that there is no core charge.

When you purchase PS2+ turbo's you in for 4k and core charge and have no additional turbo's when you return the core for your credit.

with these units you can sell your stockers which are worth about 3k or return it to stock and sell ASR kratos turbo's.

So i personally think you end up at the same price point of most of the hybrid turbo's without a core charge.

So essentially it works out the same
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      02-12-2019, 10:15 AM   #73
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What about the difference between titanium and normal ones? Do they also worth the price difference at low octane fuel range?
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      02-12-2019, 12:10 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAOZKAN View Post
What about the difference between titanium and normal ones? Do they also worth the price difference at low octane fuel range?
Originally, the main purpose for the KRAS55Ti option was to combat HCF (High Cycle Fatigue) for the endurance race cars we develop turbos for. HCF is a result of constant high load cycles for extremely prolonged periods of time. In addition HCF can cause wheel deformity resulting in loss of compressor efficiency. Being that Titanium is denser and has an average of 5 times more fatigue strength and 3 times more tensile strength than billet aluminum, it lends itself to be a perfect match to negate theses issues for endurance race cars. Also, since titanium is more dense it results in much broader torque bands due to the inertia it carries. Lastly, our engineers can be much more aggressive with blade pitch design, angle, and contour than a standard aluminum billet compressor wheel due to it's increased fatigue and tensile strength. This results in the ability to also produce more power in a given dimensional area.

In regards to the additional cost of the titanium being worth it for pump fuel is relative to your use. Being that it's a more aggressive design and higher flowing wheel, it will produce more power even at pump gas boost levels as compared to our standard billet option. However, that power difference will increase exponentially as boost increases with higher octane fuels. For most daily driver street cars though, the KRAS55Bi would probably be the more cost effective option for pump gas as the difference in power at that boost level is more so a limit of octane rather than flow capability.
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      02-12-2019, 02:52 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoop_ass View Post
What People forget is that there is no core charge.

When you purchase PS2+ turbo's you in for 4k and core charge and have no additional turbo's when you return the core for your credit.

with these units you can sell your stockers which are worth about 3k or return it to stock and sell ASR kratos turbo's.

So i personally think you end up at the same price point of most of the hybrid turbo's without a core charge.

So essentially it works out the same
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      02-13-2019, 04:06 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktulu990 View Post
I'm new to this platform but I'm confused about all the fussing on the price when the F8X owners shell out $4k plus for a cat back, $8k for 2 or 3 HUNDRED horsepower seems reasonable to me.

On top of that the product seems top notch and provides a reasonable expectation of longevity on a stock block.
If BMW offered a M4 special edition with the like type turbo and power they could ask for 20K or more extra with plenty of buyers willing to spend the money.

I absolutely don't need any more engine power, but I do want these turbos. Quicker spool up with less back pressure for more big cubic inch NA like power delivery.
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      02-15-2019, 01:32 PM   #77
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      02-15-2019, 09:55 PM   #78
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Why the switch to a built motor? Wouldn't it have been more prudent for your market to display the standard billet turbo at the dragstrip and 60-130 against your main competition since that would be 90%+ of the people thinking about upgraded turbos? Did the motor let go at 850whp advertised as disproving the naysayers?
Thanks.
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      02-18-2019, 09:05 AM   #79
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I was just reading the VTT GC thread and came across this. Sounds very interesting, and the "extra" premium just sounds like an insurance policy IMO.
With the emphasis being on reducing back pressure, anyway we could run these on stock cats for the guys who want 600/600 but wish to remain emmissions compliant? ETA for availability?

Also, I have a Dinan stage 3, with the comments you made that tune to tune, you should get more power gains from you turbos compared to stock oem ones, same correlation here too with Dinan piggyback? If these are truly plug and play in that regard as well as the physical install, then I think Kratos has a compelling story for the street guys. Thank you in advance.

Last edited by TR930; 02-18-2019 at 09:11 AM..
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      02-18-2019, 09:31 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paikman View Post
Why the switch to a built motor? Wouldn't it have been more prudent for your market to display the standard billet turbo at the dragstrip and 60-130 against your main competition since that would be 90%+ of the people thinking about upgraded turbos? Did the motor let go at 850whp advertised as disproving the naysayers?
Thanks.
These are 2 different vehicles as pictures and video show in the new thread posted last week. Our KRAS55Bi is advertised as 850whp capable with supporting modifications. Keep in mind it has produced 975whp thus far with a built engine and supporting mods, well above its advertised capabilities. It was never claimed, recommended, or suggested that customers produce 850whp on the stock engine.

Our statement regarding disproving the naysayers was directed towards the preconceived notion that the stock connecting rods are only safe up to approximately 700whp. This was disproved with our KRAS55Bi as the mechanical limit of the connecting rods has more to do with extreme backpressures of stock manifolds as well as high torque demand tuning. This particular stock engine beta test car has endured over 20K miles of daily driving and abuse with our KRAS55Bi's installed with a large portion of those miles driven at well over 750whp. As of late the same car has approximately 3500 miles logged at the current 812whp level without fail.
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      02-18-2019, 12:22 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TR930 View Post
I was just reading the VTT GC thread and came across this. Sounds very interesting, and the "extra" premium just sounds like an insurance policy IMO.
With the emphasis being on reducing back pressure, anyway we could run these on stock cats for the guys who want 600/600 but wish to remain emmissions compliant? ETA for availability?

Also, I have a Dinan stage 3, with the comments you made that tune to tune, you should get more power gains from you turbos compared to stock oem ones, same correlation here too with Dinan piggyback? If these are truly plug and play in that regard as well as the physical install, then I think Kratos has a compelling story for the street guys. Thank you in advance.
There are major and significant differences between what KRATOS manufactures and vs. others. While you do pay more for the KRAS55Bi, the major difference doesn't only lay in our reliability and durability. As stated in the bullet points of our press release, our systems are completely different in every aspect and utilize a technology that no other company on the S55 platform offers. This is why KRATOS is the only True OEM Fitment Dual Ceramic BB Turbo System Manufacturer in the market.

While back pressure is a major hurdle that we've addressed, it's a culmination of the design and engineering process of the complete system that brings it all together. The flow capabilities and power output of our systems at a given boost pressure are among the many highlights of how our KRAS55Bi differs from others. For example, this same built engine S55 produced 758whp at only 25psi. This is significantly more power than any OEM style cast or hybrid S55 turbo system as ever produced at the given boost level. Less boost means less heat and less stress on all engine components which increases consistency of power output, durability, and reliability.

Yes, you can run stock cats with our KRAS55Bi's or any of our turbo systems for that matter. Stock cats will reduce power output a bit, but we see no reason as to why you can't produce 600whp safely and easily on pump gas with our KRAS55Bi's on stock cats. However, we do not recommend running the same tune made for stock turbos or any other systems for that matter with our turbos as tuning parameters must adhere to the hardware that's installed on the vehicle. Our turbos do have a higher power output at a given boost level as compared to other turbo systems, but we would recommend getting in touch with BM3 for shelf maps we're working on creating with them for our KRAS55 turbo offerings. Customers are also urged to contact Halim@HCP for any custom tune requests.
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      02-18-2019, 12:44 PM   #82
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A combo of the turbos and BM3 tune ( particularly with their torque limiting by gear capabilities) would really be a compelling package!
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      02-18-2019, 01:11 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TR930 View Post
A combo of the turbos and BM3 tune ( particularly with their torque limiting by gear capabilities) would really be a compelling package!
We couldn't agree with you more!
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      02-18-2019, 01:20 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TR930 View Post
A combo of the turbos and BM3 tune ( particularly with their torque limiting by gear capabilities) would really be a compelling package!
We couldn't agree with you more!
Hi,

Have you guys tried acceleration tests like 60-130? We saw all the dyno and detailed information about your turbos except that you guys are hiding the actual turbo specs but can you share the 60-130? I would really like to know what these turbos can do on stock engine
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      02-18-2019, 02:39 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3anPower View Post
Hi,

Have you guys tried acceleration tests like 60-130? We saw all the dyno and detailed information about your turbos except that you guys are hiding the actual turbo specs but can you share the 60-130? I would really like to know what these turbos can do on stock engine
We make it a point to be as transparent as possible when providing data. Unfortunately, turbo specs are proprietary information that we do not release or disclose. Our only stock engine S55 currently on hand is a manual transmission which wouldn't be conducive to 60-130 testing as compared to a dct for obvious reasons. At the present time we have pre-orders for many customers with stock engines which we're sure will be posting 60-130 data very shortly. We will also be posting 60-130 data of our built engine dct in the next week or so as well.
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      02-18-2019, 08:29 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by paikman View Post
Why the switch to a built motor? Wouldn't it have been more prudent for your market to display the standard billet turbo at the dragstrip and 60-130 against your main competition since that would be 90%+ of the people thinking about upgraded turbos? Did the motor let go at 850whp advertised as disproving the naysayers?
Thanks.
These are 2 different vehicles as pictures and video show in the new thread posted last week. Our KRAS55Bi is advertised as 850whp capable with supporting modifications. Keep in mind it has produced 975whp thus far with a built engine and supporting mods, well above its advertised capabilities. It was never claimed, recommended, or suggested that customers produce 850whp on the stock engine.

Our statement regarding disproving the naysayers was directed towards the preconceived notion that the stock connecting rods are only safe up to approximately 700whp. This was disproved with our KRAS55Bi as the mechanical limit of the connecting rods has more to do with extreme backpressures of stock manifolds as well as high torque demand tuning. This particular stock engine beta test car has endured over 20K miles of daily driving and abuse with our KRAS55Bi's installed with a large portion of those miles driven at well over 750whp. As of late the same car has approximately 3500 miles logged at the current 812whp level without fail.
Thanks for the response ! Makes more sense if the stock block car is still floating around then
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      02-19-2019, 04:19 PM   #87
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Thanks for the response ! Makes more sense if the stock block car is still floating around then
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      03-08-2019, 08:59 AM   #88
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