Calling all Alignment Experts!

[Nadeemp8]

hey folks,
I have a 2015 m3, lowered on H&R sport springs and on the factory EDC shocks. car is driving great and straight as an arrow, but noticed the inner shoulders of the front two tires are wearing faster than the rest of the tire. I took it by a local tuning shop to check and fix the alignment, they put the car on the machine and told me car was aligned well and they really wouldn't be able to do any better. they mentioned the wear is due to the camber on the front 2 tires, and they cant fix it unless I get camber plates.

after speaking with some folks, I've been told camber plates wont fix my issue and what needs to be corrected is the toe. I'm trying to figure out what I really need to do here and wanted to learn from some of you experts how you'd look at this and what you would recommend.

thanks in advance!

[Nadeemp8]

here's a pic of the car...

[F3IGHTY]

Assuming your not interested in performance driving, get the camber plates and reduce camber and caster.

Your front tires will begin wearing more evenly at the expense of a less ideal contact patch during aggressive cornering.

[ruley74]

Watching patiently as I have similar wear however with slightly less camber, I was going to ask for a couple of mm toe in with my next alignment.

[mindspin311]

-2deg and that toe is pretty normal, not extreme at all. What does the tire look like? Can you post a picture?

[Ant_tc]

Toe is fine. With the amount of front camber you have, it would be considered normal to have your inner tire and wear a bit faster than the rest of your tire.

[EricSMG]

Yeah, agreed that your front camber/toe combo is pretty tame all things considered. What is the factory camber setting for these cars (non-lowered)?

I would, however, have them fix your front left toe - you want it to match your right front toe, which looks good to me.

You *could* approach zero front toe which would reduce tire wear but I'm generally not a fan of how the car feels that way (too much tram-lining, too light on-center) BUT that's with older hydro setups... not sure about the EPS.

[bbnks2]

People take the statement that "toe causes inside shoulder wear" entirely too literally.

Camber dictates that the inside shoulder sees more scrub. Toe causes the scrub. Camber = where the tire wears. Toe = the rate at which the wear occurs.

This is talking about straight line driving. In a straight line, camber will cause inside shoulder wear. Period. We only dial in 2* of camber to offset camber loss IN ROLL (dynamic load of cornering). If all you do is drive in straight lines then what you're describing is completely normal. No, hitting a few round-about every once in a while does not count lol

[ruley74]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

People take the statement that "toe causes inside shoulder wear" entirely too literally.

Camber dictates that the inside shoulder sees more scrub. Toe causes the scrub. Camber = where the tire wears. Toe = the rate at which the wear occurs.

This is talking about straight line driving. In a straight line, camber will cause inside shoulder wear. Period. We only dial in 2* of camber to offset camber loss IN ROLL (dynamic load of cornering). If all you do is drive in straight lines then what you're describing is completely normal. No, hitting a few round-about every once in a while does not count lol

So if you're running decent pressures i.e. not under inflated and you also have a the outside wearing from cornering however you inside scrub is far excessive in comparison, would you look at adjusting toe?

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

People take the statement that "toe causes inside shoulder wear" entirely too literally.

Camber dictates that the inside shoulder sees more scrub. Toe causes the scrub. Camber = where the tire wears. Toe = the rate at which the wear occurs.

This is talking about straight line driving. In a straight line, camber will cause inside shoulder wear. Period. We only dial in 2* of camber to offset camber loss IN ROLL (dynamic load of cornering). If all you do is drive in straight lines then what you're describing is completely normal. No, hitting a few round-about every once in a while does not count lol

If you do not track the vehicle nor regularly do any high speed cornering would you recommend running less negative camber closer to zero?

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

If you do not track the vehicle nor regularly do any high speed cornering would you recommend running less negative camber closer to zero?

The answer would be relative to what your current alignment is set at. I think closer to 1.5* camber and .05* toe should produce slightly better wear while still making for a decently handling street car. You could drop to .5* camber if all you do is drive to work and highway cruise lol. You don't really benefit from camber driving in straight lines.

Generally, we dial in a bit of static toe-in to keep the car stable when braking. Toe-out when braking can aid turn-in but it can also cause the car to wander and be hard to manage on the street.

[Nadeemp8]

great info folks, I am enjoying learning more about this, so keep it going! here's a pic of my front tire, nothing extreme, but you can see inner shoulder is wearing quicker than the rest...

[Ant_tc]

Imo, camber closer to -1 would be more ideal. BMW calls for a specific amount of weight in the vehicle when performing a wheel alignment. I normally adjust camber within spec, but more closer to the positive side of the acceptable range. Toe is fine like I mentioned earlier. What you want to pay attention to most is the total toe, rather than individual toe. Your toe is -0.03 left side and +0.04 right side because the tech probably had the steering wheel slightly turned left when printing your spec sheet. If he printed your sheet with the steering angle at 0, your left side would read 0.00 and right side would read 0.01 or vice versa.

[F3IGHTY]

Originally Posted by Nadeemp8

great info folks, I am enjoying learning more about this, so keep it going! here's a pic of my front tire, nothing extreme, but you can see inner shoulder is wearing quicker than the rest...

I don't see any uneven wear.

Congrats!

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by F3IGHTY

I don't see any uneven wear.

Congrats!

+1. Alignment is about perfect for spirited driving and the wear looks fine. IMO, no need to change anything.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by F3IGHTY

I don't see any uneven wear.

Congrats!

+1 stop being paranoid. That's pretty even wear for -2.0. I ran -2.75 front and my wear wasn't that bad. You'll get much better turn in with -2 vs stock.

[MyFragileHalogen]

Nice to see lowering springs alone give pretty decent cambers without camber plates

[Bee Pee]

Zero the front toe as it's toe out on LHS and toe in on RHS according to the alignment sheet you posted !

[MrSmartyPants]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

Zero the front toe as it's toe out on LHS and toe in on RHS according to the alignment sheet you posted !

That's because the steering wheel was not straight on the alignment rack. Total toe is near zero.

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by MrSmartyPants

That's because the steering wheel was not straight on the alignment rack. Total toe is near zero.

TBH - go to another alignment shop as checking alignment when the SW is off is nonsensical as is being told excessive camber is causing yr wear, more so than correcting toe settings

[Ant_tc]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

TBH - go to another alignment shop as checking alignment when the SW is off is nonsensical as is being told excessive camber is causing yr wear, more so than correcting toe settings

Really? All the tech did was print out the spec sheet with the steering wheel very slightly turned left. You pay attention to total toe, not individual for the front. Only time individual toe matters more is in the rear because of the thrust angle.

[behindthen0thing]

I chorded out a pair of Michelan SS front tires, that had allot of meat on them left. The alignment shop found the toe out was set at .7 degrees.
I wonder if the previous owner did this on purpose? Anyway, I think the Toe will cause allot more wear problems than some camber.