We Interview BMW M President, Dr. Nitschke, at 2012 Geneva Motorshow

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

Well, Porsche actually did come out with a 912:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_912

All of the 911 models after the first generation technically do have a different name like 993, 996 ,997, and the new 991 for example. For name recognition sake I suppose, the original model name has been kept though.

I always thought or looked at the 993, 996, 997, and 991 as internal designations like we do with the 3-Series and the E30, E36, E46 and E90, etc.

[YolkyPalky]

Don't see what all the fuss is over whether next-gen M3 is a sedan, and coupe/convertible models are called M4. First of all, I don't think it's even been confirmed this is happening, it's all speculation at this point. Secondly, why would this be so bad? Isn't the new M6 essentially a coupe version of the M5 after all? I don't hear anyone all up in arms over the M5 being only a sedan while M6 is the coupe version of it.

[DrivenByE30]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Fixed.

(When you enumerate all the different models, it is easy to see why a change is naming has become necessary)

Thank you I totally forgot about those two:
One is not so desirable in my eyes (GT)
and
the other one is so desirable to me, i still think it sci-fi (GC)

I am still trying to adjust myself to this potential number shift...

Originally Posted by esqu1re

Guy at bank to friend: "Hey, you wanna see my M4?"

Stranger overhearing conversation: "He's got a gun!!!"

Originally Posted by YolkyPalky

Don't see what all the fuss is over whether next-gen M3 is a sedan, and coupe/convertible models are called M4. First of all, I don't think it's even been confirmed this is happening, it's all speculation at this point. Secondly, why would this be so bad? Isn't the new M6 essentially a coupe version of the M5 after all? I don't hear anyone all up in arms over the M5 being only a sedan while M6 is the coupe version of it.

Because there was never been a M5 coupe... so as coupe version between the 5series and 7 series, calling the M6 is more than logical...

As opposed to the M3 which originally started as a Coupe and to the enthusiast mind such as yourself, the M3 reference is always associated with the coupe, Even for the E36 version, there wasn't a Sedan M3 (sadly)

see the dilemna now?

[F80 M3]

GOOD NEWS about the M335i

[YolkyPalky]

Originally Posted by DrivenByE30

As opposed to the M3 which originally started as a Coupe and to the enthusiast mind such as yourself, the M3 reference is always associated with the coupe, Even for the E36 version, there wasn't a Sedan M3 (sadly)

see the dilemna now?

I think what was said was that the M model naming will always reflect the underlying series it is based on, so if BMW decides to introduce a 4-series line-up of coupes and convertibles, and have the 3-series be sedan-only, it would logically make sense that the M coupe/convertible based on that series would be M4. This is a much broader decision for BMW than just about the M3 specifically, it is a larger decision about branding and differentiation of the series lineups.

Personally, I think an M coupe or convertible should be a somewhat different car, even if in badge name only, than a four-door sedan, so despite the history blah blah, I would be ok with different M models of coupe/convertible vs sedan.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by 宝马.e90

I always thought or looked at the 993, 996, 997, and 991 as internal designations like we do with the 3-Series and the E30, E36, E46 and E90, etc.

Exactly. Not that I care, but Porsche changing the 997 to the 991 is not the same as BMW changing the M3 to the M4. Those designations are purely internal, like BMW's E46, E90, F30, etc, as you mention.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by YolkyPalky

Don't see what all the fuss is over whether next-gen M3 is a sedan, and coupe/convertible models are called M4. First of all, I don't think it's even been confirmed this is happening, it's all speculation at this point. Secondly, why would this be so bad? Isn't the new M6 essentially a coupe version of the M5 after all? I don't hear anyone all up in arms over the M5 being only a sedan while M6 is the coupe version of it.

Wrap your head around this paradox: The M6 is the coupe version of the M6 Gran Coupe.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by DrivenByE30

As opposed to the M3 which originally started as a Coupe and to the enthusiast mind such as yourself, the M3 reference is always associated with the coupe, Even for the E36 version, there wasn't a Sedan M3 (sadly)

What.

[DrivenByE30]

My bad, i know very well the e36 came with the sedan!
this is my current car:


In fact that's my favorite M3 !! I thought bMW had a moment of genius for selling 4-door M3 since then.

I was very sad when the E46 didn't have one!
I had a moment of finger slip! i meant to type E46! or did they ??


Thanks for the above pic!

[Red Bread]

Good grief. When the E36 replaced the E30, people were upset that it had a six cylinder. When the E46 replaced the E36, people were upset that it wasn't any more powerful (than the euro E36) and when the E9x came along, people were upset that it had a V8. No one is ever happy, get used to it. The car will be fine, whatever it's called.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by thesag3

German Philosopher, Dr. Friedrich Nitschke proclaims "M3 is dead."

HA HA HA!!! my earlier post was along these lines noone caught my reference.

Well said!!! Kudos!

~Frost

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by YolkyPalky

Don't see what all the fuss is over whether next-gen M3 is a sedan, and coupe/convertible models are called M4.

Waint until there is a larger price difference between sedan and coupe, just because of the M4 badge.

People will be even more pissed. It will happen, watch.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

Waint until there is a larger price difference between sedan and coupe, just because of the M4 badge.

People will be even more pissed. It will happen, watch.

But this is likely to effect the non-M F32 similarly. Not that makes it much better, but the furor should already be simmering down by the time the M4 hits. The E90 was slightly cheaper than the E92, so it's not a total break with tradition either.

But your point is valid, marketing is getting a little out of hand.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by aajami

Wrap your head around this paradox: The M6 is the 2 door version of the M6 Gran Coupe.

Fixed.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

But this is likely to effect the non-M F32 similarly. Not that makes it much better, but the furor should already be simmering down by the time the M4 hits. The E90 was slightly cheaper than the E92, so it's not a total break with tradition either.

But your point is valid, marketing is getting a little out of hand.

In 2011, the price gap between the M3 sedan and coupe was $3,000. It is possible for that to nearly double. I feel they will try to move the 4-series and M4 up market. With that in time the msrp will climb.

Look at the price difference between the 5 and 6 series. Although a extreme example, it does shed a little light on what they might try to do. I expect the models after the F30/F32 to have even more of price difference. All while be built on the exact same chassis.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by Levi

Fixed.

I chose my words carefully, Levi There's an ironic subtlety to the sarcasm that is perhaps lost in translation.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Good grief. When the E36 replaced the E30, people were upset that it had a six cylinder. When the E46 replaced the E36, people were upset that it wasn't any more powerful (than the euro E36) and when the E9x came along, people were upset that it had a V8. No one is ever happy, get used to it. The car will be fine, whatever it's called.

I get what you're saying, it's sometimes hard to accept changes but what you're saying isn't the same. There is no history on what engines ///M cars used (V6, straight-six, V8) it was just a power plant to the chassis (though you could argue NA vs FI, but that's another discussion). The ///M3, for the most part, has always been synonymous with the 3-Series (coupe or sedan).

The name isn't going to make a difference on how the car is going to drive, but for the history buffs it's something they want to have because the history there is so rich.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

But this is likely to effect the non-M F32 similarly. Not that makes it much better, but the furor should already be simmering down by the time the M4 hits. The E90 was slightly cheaper than the E92, so it's not a total break with tradition either.

But your point is valid, marketing is getting a little out of hand.

"Non-M F32" is redundant, since the "F32M" has a unique designation of F82

(I can't help it -- I'm anal)

[DrivenByE30]

Originally Posted by YolkyPalky

I think what was said was that the M model naming will always reflect the underlying series it is based on, so if BMW decides to introduce a 4-series line-up of coupes and convertibles, and have the 3-series be sedan-only, it would logically make sense that the M coupe/convertible based on that series would be M4. This is a much broader decision for BMW than just about the M3 specifically, it is a larger decision about branding and differentiation of the series lineups.

Personally, I think an M coupe or convertible should be a somewhat different car, even if in badge name only, than a four-door sedan, so despite the history blah blah, I would be ok with different M models of coupe/convertible vs sedan.

yes, we both get that already...
you are saying what i am wrote (and was trying to convey) in my earlier posts, and what we already knew.
Well at least now we are on the same page.


My previous post was merely trying to explain to you why some people were up in arms because of the "logical" M4 reference, that goes against the iconic "M3" nameplate.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

In 2011, the price gap between the M3 sedan and coupe was $3,000. It is possible for that to nearly double. I feel they will try to move the 4-series and M4 up market. With that in time the msrp will climb.

Look at the price difference between the 5 and 6 series. Although a extreme example, it does shed a little light on what they might try to do. I expect the models after the F30/F32 to have even more of price difference. All while be built on the exact same chassis.

+1

I made the exact same point in another thread:

Originally Posted by aajami

I read a lot of people bickering about what the badge will say (and I've certainly added my voice to those calls in the past), but no one seems to mind the real, physical implication of all of this: the inevitable increase in price that the F32 and F82 will get over the F30 and F80. One of the primary motivating factors for BMW to split up the 3-series into two separate models is to insert a little market segmentation into the mix. It's not the introduction of the M Performance models that make the M4 less attainable -- it's the introduction of what is intended to be perceived as an upmarket model. After all, everyone knows that 4 is more than 3, right? The M Performance models simply become the consolation prize for those that could have made their finances work for a previous generation M car, but now have to settle for something they can afford given that the market segment they used to be in has moved up a notch or two.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by aajami

"Non-M F32" is redundant, since the "F32M" has a unique designation of F82

(I can't help it -- I'm anal)

Hehe, only fair. I forget that BMW is making it easy to tell all cars apart. Gone are the days where E46 covered wagons, coupes and sedans. Oh, and that ugly little goblin of a hatch back thing with four bug eyes.

[car_fan]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

Nope, sorry. Sometimes newer is not better. Sometimes sticking to a heritage is better. I run into people all the time who see my car, and smile, comment on the car and talk about how it is their dream car, right after I tell them it was my dream for 15 years before I finally got this one. My buddy has had ///M5s for years and he never gets that same emotional response from people. All ///Ms are special, but the ///M3 has become iconic like the 911.....what do you think would happen if they came out with a 912?

The name "///M3" has a lot of meaning, stop trying to reinvent it. Sometimes, your marketing guys do not know best.

Cheers,
e46e92

Excellent - I was thinking the same thing