BMW Value

[s4awd]

[Patronus86]

I always agreed with S4AWD that the retail and gts M3 were very different from the DTM version. So that video he posted above isn't really necessary.

I took issue with S4AWD claiming that the only difference between the 997 gt3 rs and the cup car was a transmission swap and upgraded fuel cell. That's just plain untrue.

Earlier, I posted a link to an autoblog article which detailed the extreme differences in setup, components, cost, ect:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/26/p...-of-frankfurt/

This argument between me and him started when he said:

Originally Posted by s4awd

The m3 race cars are carbon monocoque chassis with a 6 speed xtrac tranny and a P66 motor that shares nothing with the production car. The only M3 that was homologated for racing was the first M3. The 997 GT3 is the homologated race car for the road. Same engine chassis, etc. only swap is the fuel cell and 6 speed replaced by a dog box tranny.

No issue with what he said about the M3, but note the part in bold. I assumed he mean the gt3 rs, but if he was referring to the base gt3, then there is a whole other level of falsehood to his claim.

I provided him a link to an article that outlined the differences between the gt3 rs and cup car:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...et-review.html

But he refused to acknowledge that he was wrong.

Originally Posted by s4awd

I agree with the cost of running the car being high but it is still the same car. There is no way you can convert the customer M3 to a DTM machine and compete no matter how much you spend. The GT3 like the Evo and STi are homologated race cars detuned for the street which at a price you can race them

He continued to defend his claim and refused to acknowledge that there were greater differences than just the transmission and fuel cell.

Originally Posted by s4awd

I'm not wearing a Porsche hat. Just being a consumer. The 997 GT3 has the same motor (GT1) and chassis as the cup car. That is a fact. Of course they will drive differently but facts are facts.

Then he started to backtrack and acknowledged there were in fact greater differences between the gt3 rs and the cup car than just the previously claimed transmission and fuel cell swap, though he didn't acknowledge all of the differences. Note the part in bold:

Originally Posted by s4awd

Here is a video review of both rs and cup. Main difference as I mentioned is the tranny. Tires as well but overall, same chassis, same motor. No one is going to buy an RS and race. They buy a Cup car. It is sold through different channels. Fuel systems, wheels, electrical systems, etc are all different but the base is THE SAME.

He also claimed that a gt3 rs 3.8 was worth +200k on the used car market:

Originally Posted by s4awd

I purchased a 997.2 3.8 RS and it's going for up to $200k on the used market

S.Hasan546 posted links that showed otherwise:

Originally Posted by S.hasan546

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...US_Cars_Trucks

^Reputable dealer. Low-ish miles.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...US_Cars_Trucks

Want one from a porsche dealer & only 2000 miles? sure here you go. $177k

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...rack-time.html

You were saying? I can show you overpriced cars for 911 turbos as well. That doesn't mean people get anywhere near those prices or that they actually sell them.

Originally Posted by Hoopumpers

Listen to the man. He knows what he's talking about.


Good posts

So in reply to this, no I don't think S4AWD knows what he is talking about. That or he is deliberately putting out misinformation in order to prove his points. Regardless of whatever smiley faces or videos he may post now, his initial claims about the value of the gt3 rs and its differences from the cup car were wrong.

[s4awd]

Originally Posted by Hoopumpers

Listen to the man. He knows what he's talking about.


Good posts

[BMWinGE]

Originally Posted by Patronus86

I used to think that BMW cars were overpriced. Compared to normal, everyday drivers and American muscle cars, that statement probably holds true. But when you start comparing BMW M performance cars to the other exotics and high priced/performance oriented cars, BMW prices really begin to look like a bargain.

Assuming that the new M4 coupe will be in the same ballpark as the previous M3, you'll pay nearly twice as much to get a similarly performing porsche (131k for a baseline 911 gt3 with 475hp and 325ft-lb). The GT3 will likely continue to outperform the m3/m4 in terms of handling, but hp/torque wise, the stats are close enough.

When you upgrade to the M6 coupe, the price difference increases dramatically. You pay 113k for a baseline M6 coupe with 560hp and 500ft-lb. You'll have to pay 27k more for a aston martin vantage which only has 430hp/360ft-lb (that's m4 territory in terms of performance)....57k more for jaguar xk with marginally lower hp and torque...and over 120k more for a ferrari 458 with much less torque.

Granted you need a lot of dough to play with the m6, but you compare it to the other top-of-the line v8's out there...you really get a lot more performance for your money. Really makes you appreciate the value and performance you get for the price you pay with BMW!

Great first thread!

[absoluteis350]

Originally Posted by darkalley

I was talking about your rs4 lol. Don't they have carbon issues?

Heh, I know ;P (late reply, sry) Yea, thankfully I've managed to avoid them mostly, but its still probably robbing some hp.