Bilstein PSS10

[x.shell]

Originally Posted by Bucketsbentley

KW Clubsports are night and day compared with PSS10, especially on the track or under hard or high-speed cornering. Have a look at previous threads and tell me if anyone is saying different. I know people at Nurburgring who'd rather track with standard shocks than PSS10. If you are after soft, comfort driving, then that's a different story...

Apples to Oranges. The PSS10 is comparable to the KW Variant 2 or 3 series (which is what Der was asking about).

The KW Clubsport is comparable to the Bilstein Clubsport.

[Bucketsbentley]

Originally Posted by exo-shell

Apples to Oranges. The PSS10 is comparable to the KW Variant 2 or 3 series (which is what Der was asking about).

The KW Clubsport is comparable to the Bilstein Clubsport.

KW everytime

[Der]

Thanks a lot for all the replies guys I decided to go with.... AST 5100

[x.shell]

Originally Posted by Der

Thanks a lot for all the replies guys I decided to go with.... AST 5100

Congrats. More info please!

[scott13]

Originally Posted by Neema@TAG

The minimum drop is just about perfect in my opinion, it doesn't become much of a liability unless you have a front lip. Remember that the front of these cars is, in a technical sense, located on the 3rd floor so there is some room to go down before you have to drive extremely cautiously everywhere.

Hmm. Damn you for making me reconsider my reconsidering. Hehe. That's just the kind of real world advice that's going to keep me obsessing over which setup is right for me.

Hope you don't mind, but I shot you a PM so as not to completely derail the thread.

And congrats to Der. Now we'll all be looking forward to your review...

[Der]

Originally Posted by exo-shell

Congrats. More info please!

I will post you with more info come September once I install it

[x.shell]

Originally Posted by Der

I will post you with more info come September once I install it

Looking forward to it.

[mhanism]

Bump

Also considering the PSS10 for my M3, and wanted to see if there was anymore feedback from the group. A few questions -

1) Just confirming ride height adjustment, I was hoping to lower about 1.5-1.75" in the front. I'm running 275/30/19 PSS and really wanted to fill in the gap.

2) I'm reading people say this set up is on the softer side, but wanted to make sure people are happy with the sportiness (and/or stiffness) of these vs. stock springs/dampers. Or in other words, I don't want to turn my car into a Lexus ES300, and would very much like to improve in the sportiness and handling characteristics as well as overall ride quality.

Thanks all!!

[mhanism]

Originally Posted by Neema@TAG

The official measurements from Bilstein on the F82 M4 PSS10 kit are 30-40mm for the front and 5-25mm for the rear. Listings in other places are subject to confusion on the part of the people making the listings.

Hello - Can you please Pm pricing, shipped to San Jose?

Thanks!!

[double_R]

Originally Posted by mhanism

Bump

Also considering the PSS10 for my M3, and wanted to see if there was anymore feedback from the group. A few questions -

1) Just confirming ride height adjustment, I was hoping to lower about 1.5-1.75" in the front. I'm running 275/30/19 PSS and really wanted to fill in the gap.

2) I'm reading people say this set up is on the softer side, but wanted to make sure people are happy with the sportiness (and/or stiffness) of these vs. stock springs/dampers. Or in other words, I don't want to turn my car into a Lexus ES300, and would very much like to improve in the sportiness and handling characteristics as well as overall ride quality.

Thanks all!!

Don't you have the Dinan suspension? Are you changing setups just to have less wheel gap or did you not like the way car felt with it?

Reason I ask is because I've purchased the Dinan coil-over but haven't installed it yet and would like your feedback.

Thanks

[mhanism]

Originally Posted by double_R

Don't you have the Dinan suspension? Are you changing setups just to have less wheel gap or did you not like the way car felt with it?

Reason I ask is because I've purchased the Dinan coil-over but haven't installed it yet and would like your feedback.

Thanks

More the former. I'm running lower profile tires now and did not realize the impact to wheel gap. Saw this as an opportunity to also upgrade dampers.

The Dinan's are fine, and work very well with the stock EDC, but as noted in my earlier reviews, there's some room for improvement on the damper side.

[Carlos@TAG]

Originally Posted by mhanism

Hello - Can you please Pm pricing, shipped to San Jose?

Thanks!!

Absolutely, PM sent!

[kitw]

Originally Posted by Bucketsbentley

KW Clubsports are night and day compared with PSS10, especially on the track or under hard or high-speed cornering. Have a look at previous threads and tell me if anyone is saying different. I know people at Nurburgring who'd rather track with standard shocks than PSS10. If you are after soft, comfort driving, then that's a different story...

The KW V3 and Clubsport ride terribly. I hated them. Better than the bouncy stock 2015 dampers, but stiffer and harsher by quite a bit.

Curiously, my 2016 with the passive dampers seems way better damped than my early 2015 M3 with passive.

My JRZs were worlds better than the V3 and Clubsport both from a damping performance perspective and putting power down on a less than perfect surface, and ride quality for a street car. I'm curious to see how the PSS10 do on that scale.

[double_R]

Originally Posted by mhanism

More the former. I'm running lower profile tires now and did not realize the impact to wheel gap. Saw this as an opportunity to also upgrade dampers.

The Dinan's are fine, and work very well with the stock EDC, but as noted in my earlier reviews, there's some room for improvement on the damper side.

Gotcha, thanks for clarifying

[supremepower]

Originally Posted by kitw

The KW V3 and Clubsport ride terribly. I hated them. Better than the bouncy stock 2015 dampers, but stiffer and harsher by quite a bit.

Curiously, my 2016 with the passive dampers seems way better damped than my early 2015 M3 with passive.

My JRZs were worlds better than the V3 and Clubsport both from a damping performance perspective and putting power down on a less than perfect surface, and ride quality for a street car. I'm curious to see how the PSS10 do on that scale.

What setting were your Clubsport and V3 set at? Its all about the set up.

PSS10 is a bit more comfortable than the KW BUT you need to have the shocks at the right setting to be more compliant.

JRZ have a really nice approach as well. Set up correctly the JRZ are fantastic!

[mhanism]

Thanks Kit! I'm actually considering the JRZ RS One Touring. They are one way adjustable and have been well reviewed for a primarily street set up. Decent price point too.

[kitw]

Originally Posted by supremepower

What setting were your Clubsport and V3 set at? Its all about the set up.

PSS10 is a bit more comfortable than the KW BUT you need to have the shocks at the right setting to be more compliant.

JRZ have a really nice approach as well. Set up correctly the JRZ are fantastic!

I've been told that about the KW, and I've owned 8+ sets on various cars (my 5 E9x and my 3 F8x and a few P-cars) None of the settings worked well from a ride quality perspective.

The PSS10 on my 911 turbo were fine and rode well and held up fine on the track.

The JRZ, I took out of the box and slapped on the car at the recommended settings and loved them.

[AlterZgo]

I had Bilstein PSS10 coilovers installed on my F80 2 weeks ago and have driven on them for about 700 miles. For background, my car is a 2015 6MT with passive suspension. I had been lowered on KW HAS for the past year or so. At first, KW HAS springs were fine. Over time, the damping of the stock shocks started to wear out and I began to really hate how my car drove.

A little background about me... The M3 is the 10th car I've owned and EVERY single car I've ever owned has been lowered w/ everything from front perch mounts to aftermarket springs to full coilover suspensions so I have a very clear idea on how I want my cars to ride and handle. And KW HAS simply wasn't cutting it. The probably wore out the stock shocks faster than any aftermarket springs I've ever used and my car was only mildly lowered.

So after chatting w/ Tam@SupremePower, I decided I needed to bite the bullet and get a full coilover system. KW V3s were out as my experience w/ KW HAS had soured me on KW products. JRZ, Moton, Ohlins and the various Club Sport coilovers all seemed too pricey and overkill for a car that I never plan to track, though I was tempted to buy the used set of Bilstein CS coilovers TAG is selling. Since I've had good experience with Bilstein on a couple of my past cars, I went with the PSS10 coilovers. I also liked Bilstein's monotube design and, IMO the blue springs simply looked better than yellow ones.

So far, I have been very satisifed with them. The very first thing I noticed was the car had significantly improved turn in response. You turn the steering wheel and the car turns immediately. It felt like slop in the steering was removed and steering feel became more direct. Curiously, though, after that initial turn in, the steering seemed to firm up a bit more... almost like the caster angle became more slack. I soon got used to the steering feel and I find that I like it better overall due to the immediacy of turn-in response.

Second thing I noticed was the car cornered much flatter. There was definitely less body roll than with KW HAS springs.

Third thing I noticed was the excellent ride quality. When I first drove off, I was a bit worried because the ride felt too compliant. I was concerned that it would be too soft and wallowy when I hit larger bumps. The car definitely has a progressive spring rate feel, i.e. small bumps and rough road texture is filtered out compared to the stock OEM springs where you felt more of the harshness of road texture. That feeling you get on a stiffly sprung car with linear rate springs - you know, where you feel like you could drive over a dollar bill on the road and feel it - well that doesn't exist with the PSS10s. For better or worse, the PSS10s seems to smooth out all of that texture. Of course, I have not tried driving with the dampers set at 10/10 and that may bring back more of the road feel and harshness, but at my current 4/5 setting, it's very smooth.

As I drove the car more over varied roads and at different speeds, I found the damping to be very well tuned. It was not soft at all and the damping has been excellent for street driving. They provide a massively better and more refined and sophisticated ride compared to my KW HAS on worn out passive OEM shocks.

The PSS10s absorbs large and small bumps in the road extremely well while providing a fairly well damped ride. By this, I mean when I hit a large bump on the fwy at say 80 mph, the car will dip once and take a firm set rather than oscillating or feeling unbalanced and squirlely like w/ KW HAS. When you drive over a series of bumps and other rough road patches, the suspension absorbs it with ease, without bottoming out or packing up on the rebound stroke.

The car rode so well, I began looking for rougher roads so I could deliberately ram through it at speed and marvel at how well the suspension soaked up the bumps. Rough roads that I would have to slow down and cringe when driving over with my KW HAS set up, for fear of bottoming out, I now took at full speed with no issues.

I don't track my car so I can't comment on how well it would hold up on a track, but on the street, it's a great set up. It does not squeak, clank or pop. No odd noises at all. It just works well in virtually all road conditions. So far, the PSS10s are totally quiet and OEM like in refinement.

From a drawback standpoint, the only minor thing I noticed is, at lower speeds (say 10-25 mph or so), the ride can feel a bit rough on poor roads. It's like the suspension seems to eat through the compliant travel of the progressive spring and then takes a firmer set so that it starts following the roadway imperfections more and the ride feels a bit busy or jiggly. However, as your speed increases to 35+ mph, over the exact same roads, the ride quality magically smooths out as the springs and dampers come alive and seemingly flattens the road.

The car truly excels at freeway speeds of say 50-100+ mph. The handling is excellent and ride quality is exceptional at these speeds soaking up all roadway undulations, bumps, etc. Despite the progressive springs and seemingly soft ride, the car does not exhibit any floatiness at all at these speeds even with the dampers set at a relatively soft 3/3. Also, the crisp and quick turn-in I mentioned earlier never feels darty even at higher freeway speeds.

Some other observations:

1. Officially, the minimum lowering is something like 30mm or just over 1". I did not want to slam my car so I had some concerns that 30mm may be too much. Well, I would say minimum lowering is more in the .5" to .75" range, i.e. 15mm rather than 30mm. I would say the overall lowering range in front is probably about .6" or so to 1.75", which is more than enough range for a street driven car.

2. Rear lowering has an even wider range. I'm sure you can set rear at stock height and, based on how much more I can lower the rear perch, you can probably drop the rear by 2.5". In short, lowering range front and rear is totally fine for a street driven car.

3. PSS10s have a single knob to adjust both compression and rebound damping. While not ideal, for a street driven car, it is totally fine. The best thing is, the adjustment knobs are super easy to access and doesn't require removing trim panels in the trunk, or removing wheels/tires to access. The rear adjustment knobs can be accessed easily by laying under the rear bumper. The front knobs are a bit harder to reach just b/c the front end has less clearance, so I had to jack up each front corner to reach the damper adjustment knobs. Still, this is very simple to do and a 3 minute job for each front damper.

4. I tried various damper settings 3F/3R, 5F/6R, 5F/5R and eventually settled on 4F/5R. I felt at about 5/6, the car started to ride a bit too firm and jiggly for street driving and at 4/5, the car was still very comfortable, yet provided a firm, well damped, sporty ride.

5. My car is not slammed. It's lowered maybe 1.2" front and .5" rear. Preserving as much suspension travel as possible, while not as sexy as a slammed car, actually handles better, rides better and prolongs the life of the dampers as well as other things like your front lip, the under carriage of your car, etc.

I would like to also say supremepower did an excellent job w/ customer service and installation. If you're in Southern California, you need to visit them. I was very picky about ride height. I have a heavy ass musicar subwoofer in the right rear corner and told Tam I wanted ride height to be set equally left to right. I also didn't want the car slammed. When I came to pick up the car, the installer had the car sitting on their alignment rack so that it could be perfectly level and I could see if I liked the ride height settings. It was absolutely spot on. The installer also made sure to install the damper adjustments in the rear to face inwards so that you can see the damper setting when you're laying under the rear bumper. Otherwise, if installed as recommended, the adjustment knobs would be facing outwards towards the rear tires you couldn't see or reach the adjustment knobs as easy.

In summary, PSS10s have been one of my favorite mods for my car. I do wonder how they will hold up over time though. Hopefully, I can get a good 20k+ miles out of them before the dampers start noticeably wearing out. When that happens, I can just click up the damping a notch or two and things should be fine. I will report back after I've added more miles on them.

[mhanism]

Appreciate the very thought out and detailed review AlterZgo! Look forward to reading your follow up thoughts!

[swagon]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

I had Bilstein PSS10 coilovers installed on my F80 2 weeks ago and have driven on them for about 700 miles. For background, my car is a 2015 6MT with passive suspension. I had been lowered on KW HAS for the past year or so. At first, KW HAS springs were fine. Over time, the damping of the stock shocks started to wear out and I began to really hate how my car drove.

That might very well be one of the most detailed reviews here. While I have no F80, thanks for the write up.

I feel the same about KWs. I feel like they've become a bit more rought over the past year on the 135i. And most people on here just buy them V3's to slam the car, I guess. They might be great for a few miles and then start deteriorating, but who cares when you have stretched 20's, no wheel gap and zero clearance for dem instagram likes.

[scott13]

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

I had Bilstein PSS10 coilovers installed on my F80 2 weeks ago and have driven on them for about 700 miles.

...

Some other observations:

1. Officially, the minimum lowering is something like 30mm or just over 1". I did not want to slam my car so I had some concerns that 30mm may be too much. Well, I would say minimum lowering is more in the .5" to .75" range, i.e. 15mm rather than 30mm. I would say the overall lowering range in front is probably about .6" or so to 1.75", which is more than enough range for a street driven car.

Thanks for sharing such a great and detailed write up. I've been seriously considering the PSS10's, but, like yourself, I was concerned about the minimum lowering for the fronts. Just curious, but have you noticed any significant settling since you've had them on for ~1000 miles? Any pics you can share?

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by scott13

Thanks for sharing such a great and detailed write up. I've been seriously considering the PSS10's, but, like yourself, I was concerned about the minimum lowering for the fronts. Just curious, but have you noticed any significant settling since you've had them on for ~1000 miles? Any pics you can share?

Hi Scott. I measured again recently and the rears are exactly the same. However, the fronts are 1/8" lower after almost 1000 miles.

I don't have photos hosted on a website so not sure if I can attach to bimmerpost. PM me your email and I can send you the pictures.

They currently measure about 26 1/8" from floor to top edge of front fender. This is about a 1.5 finger gap in front. Rears are at just a tiny bit under 26 1/2" from floor to top edge of rear qtr panel. This is 1 finger gap in the back.

Fronts, I would estimate I can raise by about .75" and rears looks like I can probably raise them a bit higher than stock or lower by 2" from where I'm at.

In short, you should have zero worries about these coilovers lowering the car too much as you can set it for a very mild drop. Conversely, you won't be able to slam the car either as I can maybe lower the fronts by another 1/2" at most from where I'm at (this would get to a 1 finger gap up front). You wont' be able to tuck tire in the front, but 1 finger gap would look great already and going any lower would seriously compromise suspension travel and performance IMO.