Macht Schnell Competition Sport Spring - Front Clunk / Clicking issue

parabmw · 01-31-2019, 09:15 AM

Isn't the clunking related to the steering rack after lowering?

jclifton · 01-31-2019, 11:47 AM

I'll toss the car up on jacks this weekend and take a closer look. What's the damage risk of continuing to run these MS springs with the clunking?

tom @ eas · 01-31-2019, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan l.

Tom its safe to say that this issue isn't install related. Most of us didn't use a monkey as a mechanic to get springs installed and the process is straight forward on this car. No worn parts since we have guys like me and others do the install when the car had less than 200 miles on the odometer. I've personally checked my install and nothing looks off and everything is tight but I still get the clunks on certain types of sharp bumps and more so when the wheel is turned.

I've checked the forums and nobody else seems to have this issue with springs except for those with MS springs.

I will most likely swap these out for M Performance suspension once winter is over...

Alan

Zero issues on our end, we've installed a ton of these as well as others. As long as care is taken during installation, all should be well. Check the rubber boots carefully for damage from installation as they are very delicate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jclifton

I'll toss the car up on jacks this weekend and take a closer look. What's the damage risk of continuing to run these MS springs with the clunking?

Likely none, but it's hard to give a clear answer without knowing what's causing the noise.

jclifton · 01-31-2019, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Zero issues on our end, we've installed a ton of these as well as others. As long as care is taken during installation, all should be well. Check the rubber boots carefully for damage from installation as they are very delicate.

Likely none, but it's hard to give a clear answer without knowing what's causing the noise.

That makes total sense. I'll check them for any damage etc. Thanks for the reply.

jclifton · 02-14-2019, 05:41 PM

Didn't get a chance to get the car up on the lift since we've had a ton of snow recently here in Seattle -- Odd I know. However, I did get a response back from MS when I asked them about this. Here's the response:

"It is possible they are upside down. The spring should seat better one way vs the other."

What's your take on that Tom? They seemed to fit just fine when I installed them. Could they possibly be upside down?!

empowered_one · 02-14-2019, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jclifton

Didn't get a chance to get the car up on the lift since we've had a ton of snow recently here in Seattle -- Odd I know. However, I did get a response back from MS when I asked them about this. Here's the response:

"It is possible they are upside down. The spring should seat better one way vs the other."

What's your take on that Tom? They seemed to fit just fine when I installed them. Could they possibly be upside down?!

I think that if they are recommended in one direction can the other, MS should mark one side and update installation instructions to "help installation"....just my $0.02.

jclifton · 02-14-2019, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by empowered_one

I think that if they are recommended in one direction can the other, MS should mark one side and update installation instructions to "help installation"....just my $0.02.

No kidding! I looked all over the spring for any marking and scoured the "documentation" (aka the single sheet of paper) that came in the box... found nothing. Can we get an arrow or something? Top? I'll add to your $0.02.. $0.04

tom @ eas · 02-15-2019, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jclifton

No kidding! I looked all over the spring for any marking and scoured the "documentation" (aka the single sheet of paper) that came in the box... found nothing. Can we get an arrow or something? Top? I'll add to your $0.02.. $0.04

Most likely it's a torn insulator boot from rushing installation. Inspect and replace.

jclifton · 02-25-2019, 09:33 AM

Update:

I put the car up on stands this weekend and was surprised by what I found. The driver side was completely fine. Spring lined up perfectly to the boot, all bolts still secure, no marks anywhere... the passenger side however was a different story. The spring had twisted about an 1/8 of a turn to "separate" from the boot "stop" location it should have been touching. Luckily the boot wasn't torn at all so I didn't need to call the stealership for a replacement. Although... in addition to the spring rotation, the sway bar link bolt had become loose. The only thing I can think is that I was an idiot and simply didn't hit 60ft-lbs when I torqued it down. Using a piece of wood underneath the rotor to lift up and down a bit to simulate movement, the pop was clearly audible -- albeit more subtle -- from the sway bar bolt.

Pulled the entire passenger assembly out again, re-seated everything correctly and re-torqued all the bolts to spec... twice. It's been dead silent since then and I've driven almost 100 miles over smooth and as rough pavement as I can find just to see the difference.

Note: I did see what Macht Schnell was talking about in reference to "upside down installation". The springs will fit either direction... but if you look at the bottom mount you'll see a gap in the plate it sits on IF you lean the spring so the shock is directly in the center and not leaning toward the side of the spring. If you see that gap, it's upside down.

TLDR: Don't be an idiot and make sure everything is torqued to spec before you close up.

Andrew30azs · 02-26-2019, 08:56 AM

So now everything is ok ??? They was upside down?

Andrew30azs · 02-26-2019, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jclifton

Update:

I put the car up on stands this weekend and was surprised by what I found. The driver side was completely fine. Spring lined up perfectly to the boot, all bolts still secure, no marks anywhere... the passenger side however was a different story. The spring had twisted about an 1/8 of a turn to "separate" from the boot "stop" location it should have been touching. Luckily the boot wasn't torn at all so I didn't need to call the stealership for a replacement. Although... in addition to the spring rotation, the sway bar link bolt had become loose. The only thing I can think is that I was an idiot and simply didn't hit 60ft-lbs when I torqued it down. Using a piece of wood underneath the rotor to lift up and down a bit to simulate movement, the pop was clearly audible -- albeit more subtle -- from the sway bar bolt.

Pulled the entire passenger assembly out again, re-seated everything correctly and re-torqued all the bolts to spec... twice. It's been dead silent since then and I've driven almost 100 miles over smooth and as rough pavement as I can find just to see the difference.

Note: I did see what Macht Schnell was talking about in reference to "upside down installation". The springs will fit either direction... but if you look at the bottom mount you'll see a gap in the plate it sits on IF you lean the spring so the shock is directly in the center and not leaning toward the side of the spring. If you see that gap, it's upside down.

TLDR: Don't be an idiot and make sure everything is torqued to spec before you close up.

So now everything is ok ? Asking because i don’t know if I have to return the springs or keep it

Alan l. · 02-26-2019, 09:19 AM

I find it stupid that these springs comes with zero mention of which way they should be oriented. There is zero writing on the springs themselves and I even called EAS while i was at the mechanic asking which way the springs should go. The answer i got was they fit either way but it "fits one direction better". I have checked my springs and both sides they are aligned with the dust boot with zero visual tears but yet I still get minor clunking noises on sharp bumps when the steering wheel is turned. Frustrating to say the least....

parabmw · 02-26-2019, 11:04 AM

Is this issue an MS only issue?

tom @ eas · 02-26-2019, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parabmw

Is this issue an MS only issue?

Please see Post 4

Andrew30azs · 02-26-2019, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan l.

I find it stupid that these springs comes with zero mention of which way they should be oriented. There is zero writing on the springs themselves and I even called EAS while i was at the mechanic asking which way the springs should go. The answer i got was they fit either way but it "fits one direction better". I have checked my springs and both sides they are aligned with the dust boot with zero visual tears but yet I still get minor clunking noises on sharp bumps when the steering wheel is turned. Frustrating to say the least....

That’s why I don’t want to risk . The labor cost me to that’s why I don’t want to experiment with springs I need just good springs and here is 50/50 with this macho schnels. Alan who install you this springs ?

jclifton · 02-27-2019, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tobiasz17azs

Quote:

Originally Posted by jclifton

Update:

I put the car up on stands this weekend and was surprised by what I found. The driver side was completely fine. Spring lined up perfectly to the boot, all bolts still secure, no marks anywhere... the passenger side however was a different story. The spring had twisted about an 1/8 of a turn to "separate" from the boot "stop" location it should have been touching. Luckily the boot wasn't torn at all so I didn't need to call the stealership for a replacement. Although... in addition to the spring rotation, the sway bar link bolt had become loose. The only thing I can think is that I was an idiot and simply didn't hit 60ft-lbs when I torqued it down. Using a piece of wood underneath the rotor to lift up and down a bit to simulate movement, the pop was clearly audible -- albeit more subtle -- from the sway bar bolt.

Pulled the entire passenger assembly out again, re-seated everything correctly and re-torqued all the bolts to spec... twice. It's been dead silent since then and I've driven almost 100 miles over smooth and as rough pavement as I can find just to see the difference.

Note: I did see what Macht Schnell was talking about in reference to "upside down installation". The springs will fit either direction... but if you look at the bottom mount you'll see a gap in the plate it sits on IF you lean the spring so the shock is directly in the center and not leaning toward the side of the spring. If you see that gap, it's upside down.

TLDR: Don't be an idiot and make sure everything is torqued to spec before you close up.

So now everything is ok ? Asking because i don’t know if I have to return the springs or keep it

Everything seems to be just fine so far. I keep rolling the windows down and listening for funny noises... I'll keep this thread updated over the coming weeks.

Andrew30azs · 02-28-2019, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jclifton

Everything seems to be just fine so far. I keep rolling the windows down and listening for funny noises... I'll keep this thread updated over the coming weeks.

Probably i will return them and I will go on Swifts.

jclifton · 03-01-2019, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tobiasz17azs

Quote:

Originally Posted by jclifton

Everything seems to be just fine so far. I keep rolling the windows down and listening for funny noises... I'll keep this thread updated over the coming weeks.

Probably i will return them and I will go on Swifts.

I still haven't had any issues since.

Andrew30azs · 03-12-2019, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jclifton

I still haven't had any issues since.

I return Macht schnells
And bought swifts

The Spectacle · 04-23-2019, 01:10 PM

I’ve had the MS springs installed for about 4 months and 2500 miles. I just returned from a long road trip - FL -> AL -> TN -> FL and wanted to wait until I had adequate time and mileage under my belt before posting. Before installing the springs, I read this thread (and a few others) complaining about issues with noise did everything I could to avoid it. Here’s what I think is going on: the OEM torque specs for each suspension bolt you have to remove and replace is too low, OR people are not torquing these bolts under load as required. Here was my experience:

I printed out the newTIS guide/pages for removing and replacing the springs and took it to my installer who followed it to the letter (I supervised the entire install). Install went smoothly with no issues. On the first test drive, I went out by myself and over rough road, the car clanked and banged terribly from the front. Something was obviously loose in the front end. I came back to the shop and took my installer out on the same roads and he heard the same thing. We came back to the shop and double-checked all torque specs. Everything was where it was supposed to be.

With the car on the ground I turned the wheel as needed and he went back through every suspension bolt and re-torqued everything “full send”, meaning no torque wrench and just by feel. Went back out for a test drive over the same roads and all noise was gone and never returned. What I think happened is when we initially put everything back together on the lift, we didn’t have a load on the suspension which allowed some play when the car was back on the ground. As for torn boots - as recommended by EAS we did lube all contact points on the spring perches during install and haven’t had any problems.

All that said, I think these springs are fantastic and gave me the exact look and feel I wanted. With the proper install, I highly recommend them.

Happy to answer any questions I can.

01-31-2019, 09:15 AM	#23
parabmw Major 169 Rep 1,039 Posts Drives: 2018 m4 Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: canada iTrader: (0)	Isn't the clunking related to the steering rack after lowering?
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01-31-2019, 11:47 AM	#24
jclifton New Member 3 Rep 15 Posts Drives: 2016 M4 Convertible Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Seattle, WA iTrader: (0)	I'll toss the car up on jacks this weekend and take a closer look. What's the damage risk of continuing to run these MS springs with the clunking?
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02-14-2019, 05:41 PM	#27
jclifton New Member 3 Rep 15 Posts Drives: 2016 M4 Convertible Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Seattle, WA iTrader: (0)	Didn't get a chance to get the car up on the lift since we've had a ton of snow recently here in Seattle -- Odd I know. However, I did get a response back from MS when I asked them about this. Here's the response: "It is possible they are upside down. The spring should seat better one way vs the other." What's your take on that Tom? They seemed to fit just fine when I installed them. Could they possibly be upside down?!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-25-2019, 09:33 AM	#31
jclifton New Member 3 Rep 15 Posts Drives: 2016 M4 Convertible Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Seattle, WA iTrader: (0)	Update: I put the car up on stands this weekend and was surprised by what I found. The driver side was completely fine. Spring lined up perfectly to the boot, all bolts still secure, no marks anywhere... the passenger side however was a different story. The spring had twisted about an 1/8 of a turn to "separate" from the boot "stop" location it should have been touching. Luckily the boot wasn't torn at all so I didn't need to call the stealership for a replacement. Although... in addition to the spring rotation, the sway bar link bolt had become loose. The only thing I can think is that I was an idiot and simply didn't hit 60ft-lbs when I torqued it down. Using a piece of wood underneath the rotor to lift up and down a bit to simulate movement, the pop was clearly audible -- albeit more subtle -- from the sway bar bolt. Pulled the entire passenger assembly out again, re-seated everything correctly and re-torqued all the bolts to spec... twice. It's been dead silent since then and I've driven almost 100 miles over smooth and as rough pavement as I can find just to see the difference. Note: I did see what Macht Schnell was talking about in reference to "upside down installation". The springs will fit either direction... but if you look at the bottom mount you'll see a gap in the plate it sits on IF you lean the spring so the shock is directly in the center and not leaning toward the side of the spring. If you see that gap, it's upside down. TLDR: Don't be an idiot and make sure everything is torqued to spec before you close up.
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02-26-2019, 08:56 AM	#32
Andrew30azs Private First Class 10 Rep 164 Posts Drives: BMW m4 Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Ct iTrader: (0)	So now everything is ok ??? They was upside down?
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02-26-2019, 09:19 AM	#34
Alan l. Major General 5428 Rep 8,801 Posts Drives: 2020 F95 X5M Competition Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: United States iTrader: (9)	I find it stupid that these springs comes with zero mention of which way they should be oriented. There is zero writing on the springs themselves and I even called EAS while i was at the mechanic asking which way the springs should go. The answer i got was they fit either way but it "fits one direction better". I have checked my springs and both sides they are aligned with the dust boot with zero visual tears but yet I still get minor clunking noises on sharp bumps when the steering wheel is turned. Frustrating to say the least.... __________________ Last edited by Alan l.; 02-26-2019 at 11:32 AM..
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02-26-2019, 11:04 AM	#35
parabmw Major 169 Rep 1,039 Posts Drives: 2018 m4 Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: canada iTrader: (0)	Is this issue an MS only issue?
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04-23-2019, 01:10 PM	#42
The Spectacle Enlisted Member 0 Rep 32 Posts Drives: 2018 M4 Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Tampa, FL iTrader: (0)	I’ve had the MS springs installed for about 4 months and 2500 miles. I just returned from a long road trip - FL -> AL -> TN -> FL and wanted to wait until I had adequate time and mileage under my belt before posting. Before installing the springs, I read this thread (and a few others) complaining about issues with noise did everything I could to avoid it. Here’s what I think is going on: the OEM torque specs for each suspension bolt you have to remove and replace is too low, OR people are not torquing these bolts under load as required. Here was my experience: I printed out the newTIS guide/pages for removing and replacing the springs and took it to my installer who followed it to the letter (I supervised the entire install). Install went smoothly with no issues. On the first test drive, I went out by myself and over rough road, the car clanked and banged terribly from the front. Something was obviously loose in the front end. I came back to the shop and took my installer out on the same roads and he heard the same thing. We came back to the shop and double-checked all torque specs. Everything was where it was supposed to be. With the car on the ground I turned the wheel as needed and he went back through every suspension bolt and re-torqued everything “full send”, meaning no torque wrench and just by feel. Went back out for a test drive over the same roads and all noise was gone and never returned. What I think happened is when we initially put everything back together on the lift, we didn’t have a load on the suspension which allowed some play when the car was back on the ground. As for torn boots - as recommended by EAS we did lube all contact points on the spring perches during install and haven’t had any problems. All that said, I think these springs are fantastic and gave me the exact look and feel I wanted. With the proper install, I highly recommend them. Happy to answer any questions I can.
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