Anyone else get banned from the G8X section for making fun of its looks?

[R N M]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

i've driven quite a few cars and porsche just does it best. everything makes sense: the driving position, working on it, there is no dumb clutch delay valve, the steering is one of the best on the market, if you opt for pdk it is perfect in every situation every time no matter what, the panel gaps are minimal. everything is in balance: brakes, hp, chassis.

then again it makes sense why they are so good because they never deviated from the rear engine flat 6 formula. they've had 50 years+ to perfect this car.


As for BMW... the f80 will probably be my last new one. its a very good car but the s55 doesn't have much character. i'll either go to an e92 m3 or see what other offerings are out there. car market is just too insane right now to justify dumping an f80 for a similar miles lci e92 for the same money.

Definitely agree with you about Porsche - the ergonomics, inputs, seating position, sight lines are all perfect. I sat in a new AM Vantage and MB AMG-GT, they are so compromised and funky inside. 911 just feels “right” no matter if you 6’3 or 5 feet.

Porsche is definitely a level up for performance and engineering over BMW but at a very significant cost imo.
An M3 will never feel like a 911 but my F80 was $80k while my 911 was $130k. I just did a 2nd yr service at a whopping $1,300 with PCA discount. You will definitely pay for that extra performance but the Cayman and 911 are worth it.

What made BMW great was offering true enthusiast cars with real Motorsport character at a very affordable price. F80 comp is really a bargain compared to anything Porsche can get you for less than $80k.

If BMW built a dedicated sports car for $100k to take on 911 that weighs 3,300lbs with N/A straight 6 that revs to 9k rpm. There would be waiting lists for 5yrs from dedicated BMW fans - obviously if it was styled like a BMW of old.

My last hope is new M2 but in mean time also considering other makes like C8 Z06 or LC500 to replace F80 although im not crazy about those brands either. Really wish BMW didn’t fall off the edge like this.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by minn19

I actually feel like I'm getting what I paid for. It surprisingly is somewhat fun to drive, has some steering feel and the S is plenty powerful for a DD.

That's awesome - the Cayenne's are nice and if it weren't for covid & supply chain issues I'd have been picking one up in Leipzig in October! We even had tickets booked and hotel reservations in Berlin

I hate to admit it, but I'm bummed not have been able to buy a German-made car, delivered in Germany ... FWPs I guess ...


In my SUV news today, I was stuck in stop & go traffic for 45 min so I put on the massage, turned on Traffic Assist and damn if that fucker didn't auto-drive IN TRAFFIC just like i would've! It was impressive - it doesn't tailgate, but it doesn't leave a bunch of room either so move-busters jump in front of you ... AND it even slightly moves over for lane splitters! no crazy jolts, just moves slightly over and then back.

I've used Teslas and it gets a big nope for me, at least for now, but BMW's is really damn good in its <40mph mode ... >40mph is a bit different though - occasionally it drifts a little so it makes me feel like I gotta be on it all the time in which case I don't need it, so I'd ding it there, but Traffic Assist is really good.

I've also done the auto-park in parking lots/ramps, also stellar, but scary as fuck. I'm on the fence about using it consistently ...


Separately I'll say my biggest disappointment with X5M is the transmission ... the M4 DCT I drove 99.9% in manual and it freaked me out not to, like if it bumped into auto. I felt total control over the drivetrain and felt I was giving up nothing not having MT ... controversially I'd say, for me, the M-DCT was more sporty than MT and kinda made the MT feel like the budget choice, especially in the 2014/15 models with the batshit programming.

This ZF ... eh. Sure, it shifts fast enough but it FEELS mushy daily driving. You can't hide the torque converter. On previous test drives that kinda goes away when you light it up, so my thought was no biggie since SUV is for cushy driving anyway, but the ZF ain't no PDK/DCT. Assuming my next vehicle has an ICE, it'll be PDK or MT if I have a choice.

BMW really fucked up ditching the DCTs - the ZF has convinced me it's dual clutch or MT ... though I have no run time with Benz's wet clutch pack thingie...

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by R N M

What made BMW great was offering true enthusiast cars with real Motorsport character at a very affordable price.

100% ... though I'm now convinced BMW no longer wants this market position either because they believe they're bigger than it now or it's shrinking (i.e., 1%ers buy multiple cars so build for them & ignore the 99% market).

I have feeling BMW believes EVs aren't sport or luxury oriented, rather tech oriented, thus sport & luxury buyers need hybrids, thus X///M and whatever else they're cooking up, while EVs are being marketed to techie millennials.

Benz seems to be going in this direction too (i.e., new c63), while Porsche/Audi seem focused on building great cars independent of drivetrain and, as far as I know, keeping their EV platform separate from their ICE platform - stein_325i, do you know, is that true? Separate platforms?

Tesla's vision of the future they're baking into the new Model S/X seems to be a primarily self-driving vehicle that can occasionally be taken over manually for fun, but in daily-driver mode is 100% self driving with the yoke disappearing into the dash (thus a yoke wheel and minimal gauges/binnacle)

Porsche seems to be evolving into an up-market EV company who also makes a great sport ICE ... EVs are Porsche's opportunity to move down-market into BMW & Japanese territory without diluting their premium brand.

The avg household income of a Macan owner is $440k, the highest in the industry ... 10 years ago those buyers went BMW or Japanese, now they can stay with Porsche ... and a $60k Porsche Macan EV would be a market killer.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

100% ... though I'm now convinced BMW no longer wants this market position either because they believe they're bigger than it now or it's shrinking (i.e., 1%ers buy multiple cars so build for them & ignore the 99% market).

I have feeling BMW believes EVs aren't sport or luxury oriented, rather tech oriented, thus sport & luxury buyers need hybrids, thus X///M and whatever else they're cooking up, while EVs are being marketed to techie millennials.

Benz seems to be going in this direction too (i.e., new c63), while Porsche/Audi seem focused on building great cars independent of drivetrain and, as far as I know, keeping their EV platform separate from their ICE platform - stein_325i, do you know, is that true? Separate platforms?

Tesla's vision of the future they're baking into the new Model S/X seems to be a primarily self-driving vehicle that can occasionally be taken over manually for fun, but in daily-driver mode is 100% self driving with the yoke disappearing into the dash (thus a yoke wheel and minimal gauges/binnacle)

Porsche seems to be evolving into an up-market EV company who also makes a great sport ICE ... EVs are Porsche's opportunity to move down-market into BMW & Japanese territory without diluting their premium brand.

The avg household income of a Macan owner is $440k, the highest in the industry ... 10 years ago those buyers went BMW or Japanese, now they can stay with Porsche ... and a $60k Porsche Macan EV would be a market killer.

I believe some are shared with Audi but the others aren't.

Like the Mission R which is pretty much confirmed to be the coming Cayman/Boxster EV, is Porsche dedicated. The Taycan of course, isn't as it is shared with the VW group.

Iuno if that will change, or continue to change but I would be surprised if the Macan, Cayenne and Taycan is on a shared platform. Then 911 and 718 are Porsche dedicated as they don't want others to cannibalize their stuff. I mean, some forget (and I didn't really remember this) that the V8/V10 in Lambo cars is with Audi.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Benz seems to be going in this direction too (i.e., new c63), while Porsche/Audi seem focused on building great cars independent of drivetrain and, as far as I know, keeping their EV platform separate from their ICE platform - stein_325i, do you know, is that true? Separate platforms?

Here's the Benz EV plans:

Currently they have two sets of EV's. Dedicated and Non-Dedicated.

-The EQS, EQE, as well as upcoming EQS SUV and EQE SUV models (and their possible AMG and Maybach spinoffs) will use the current MEA (Modular Electric Architecture) which is built from the ground up. These models all either have or will have above 300 miles of range, with the EQS already scoring 422 miles in Edmund's range test.

-The EQA, EQB, and EQC (Equivalent to GLA/B/C) are based on an ICE platform and have been modified into EV's. Only EQB is coming to the US, these are mainly compliance vehicles.

-In 2024, they will introduce a new MMA platform for entry-level and compact vehicles. This is apparently an EV-dedicated skateboard platform featuring 800V technology, however one that can fit a small engine at the front if needed for specific markets.

-2025 is the ICE development cutoff date. In 2025, three new EV-only platforms will be used. MB.EA for Mid-Size and Large Benz vehicles, AMG.EA for AMG Performance models, as well as VAN.EA for commercial models.

-For a future EQG (G-Wagen) there will be a dedicated platform for that vehicle.

On top of all of this, there is also an upcoming technology concept that will debut in January, dubbed the "EQXX" which in conjunction with Benz and AMG's F1 Powertrain Division, is a concept design to get over 1,000 Kilometers (620 miles) of range, with efficiency in the single digits of kWh per 100km at highway speed. This technology will make its way to future EV's.

[M3WC]

I have come to the conclusion BMW is just doing these wild(aka ugly) designs just for attention. The designs grab headlines. There is no other explanation. Similar to a chick getting giant injected lips and ass implants. Trying to get attention, but everyone is really laughing at her.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

That's awesome - the Cayenne's are nice and if it weren't for covid & supply chain issues I'd have been picking one up in Leipzig in October! We even had tickets booked and hotel reservations in Berlin

I hate to admit it, but I'm bummed not have been able to buy a German-made car, delivered in Germany ... FWPs I guess ...


In my SUV news today, I was stuck in stop & go traffic for 45 min so I put on the massage, turned on Traffic Assist and damn if that fucker didn't auto-drive IN TRAFFIC just like i would've! It was impressive - it doesn't tailgate, but it doesn't leave a bunch of room either so move-busters jump in front of you ... AND it even slightly moves over for lane splitters! no crazy jolts, just moves slightly over and then back.

I've used Teslas and it gets a big nope for me, at least for now, but BMW's is really damn good in its <40mph mode ... >40mph is a bit different though - occasionally it drifts a little so it makes me feel like I gotta be on it all the time in which case I don't need it, so I'd ding it there, but Traffic Assist is really good.

I've also done the auto-park in parking lots/ramps, also stellar, but scary as fuck. I'm on the fence about using it consistently ...


Separately I'll say my biggest disappointment with X5M is the transmission ... the M4 DCT I drove 99.9% in manual and it freaked me out not to, like if it bumped into auto. I felt total control over the drivetrain and felt I was giving up nothing not having MT ... controversially I'd say, for me, the M-DCT was more sporty than MT and kinda made the MT feel like the budget choice, especially in the 2014/15 models with the batshit programming.

This ZF ... eh. Sure, it shifts fast enough but it FEELS mushy daily driving. You can't hide the torque converter. On previous test drives that kinda goes away when you light it up, so my thought was no biggie since SUV is for cushy driving anyway, but the ZF ain't no PDK/DCT. Assuming my next vehicle has an ICE, it'll be PDK or MT if I have a choice.

BMW really fucked up ditching the DCTs - the ZF has convinced me it's dual clutch or MT ... though I have no run time with Benz's wet clutch pack thingie...

That is/would be cool to have in traffic. The C63S had a semi self driving mode but it wasn’t very smooth/tended to wander as well. Enough so that I never really felt comfortable using it.

Agreed about the ZF as well. I can already tell that I’ll have it in sport mode almost exclusively due to it being as you say mushy or lazy in comfort. It does shift really quick and smooth in sport with with the paddles but there is no fun drama there like a DCT gives. The MCT in the Merc was very good but I had a hard time driving it smoothly starting off and coming to a stop sometimes. In comfort it tries to get to 9th far too quickly IMO and that was annoying. When driven in anger though it was very similar to the DCT. FormulaMMM can probably give a better review of it, especially in comparison to BMWs DCT.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by minn19

That is/would be cool to have in traffic. The C63S had a semi self driving mode but it wasn’t very smooth/tended to wander as well. Enough so that I never really felt comfortable using it.

Agreed about the ZF as well. I can already tell that I’ll have it in sport mode almost exclusively due to it being as you say mushy or lazy in comfort. It does shift really quick and smooth in sport with with the paddles but there is no fun drama there like a DCT gives. The MCT in the Merc was very good but I had a hard time driving it smoothly starting off and coming to a stop sometimes. In comfort it tries to get to 9th far too quickly IMO and that was annoying. When driven in anger though it was very similar to the DCT. FormulaMMM can probably give a better review of it, especially in comparison to BMWs DCT.

Benz's MCT is still a planetary auto and only replaces the torque converter with a wet clutch, so the only difference is launching from rest and creeping. Gear changes are handled in the exact same way as any other planetary auto would: with the torque converter/main-clutch-pack locked up. It ain't no DCT...

[minn19]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Benz's MCT is still a planetary auto and only replaces the torque converter with a wet clutch, so the only difference is launching from rest and creeping. Gear changes are handled in the exact same way as any other planetary auto would: with the torque converter/main-clutch-pack locked up. It ain't no DCT...

I don’t get into the techno side like you do. Just an average dude having fun with cars. For me it felt closer to how the DCT felt shifting than the ZF8. Agreed though, it doesn’t replicate the DCT experience, especially one turned up to full attack mode probably for the reasons you stated. I need the Homer meme……”can you repeat the part of stuff where you said all about the things.”

I’ll respond with this though to people that still say things like Gruss does about DCTs vs MTs. Yes you have the control of a MT but it isn’t a MT IMO. Nor/not even as close as fun, of course my opinion as well. Because the planetary things get locked up by my left foot and the right hand moves the lever thingy to another number then left foot unlocks planetary things and right foot goes down, hence sending dopamine to my cro-magnon brain. Good technical explanation of a MT?

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Benz's MCT is still a planetary auto and only replaces the torque converter with a wet clutch, so the only difference is launching from rest and creeping. Gear changes are handled in the exact same way as any other planetary auto would: with the torque converter/main-clutch-pack locked up. It ain't no DCT...

Originally Posted by minn19

I don’t get into the techno side like you do. Just an average dude having fun with cars. For me it felt closer to how the DCT felt shifting than the ZF8. Agreed though, it doesn’t replicate the DCT experience, especially one turned up to full attack mode probably for the reasons you stated. I need the Homer meme……”can you repeat the part of stuff where you said all about the things.”

I’ll respond with this though to people that still say things like Gruss does about DCTs vs MTs. Yes you have the control of a MT but it isn’t a MT IMO. Nor/not even as close as fun, of course my opinion as well. Because the planetary things get locked up by my left foot and the right hand moves the lever thingy to another number then left foot unlocks planetary things and right foot goes down, hence sending dopamine to my cro-magnon brain. Good technical explanation of a MT?

I am definitely not as tech savy as CanAut but I can definitely tell the times I had test driven recent Benz cars that the MCT wasn't a dual clutch. It was the behavior of the car that I knew it wasn't a DCT. Especially since I love DCTs, I can pretty much always tell between a dual clutch and a planetary auto tranny.

MCT wasn't impressive though. It didn't have the feel of a DCT but it wasn't as fast as a DCT either. Not sure if the recent cars changed this or not but when I drove them, I was no where impressed by it.

The ones in the CLA, which I think are actual DCTs, aren't... great either.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by minn19

still say things like Gruss does about DCTs vs MTs. Yes you have the control of a MT but it isn’t a MT IMO. Nor/not even as close as fun

I have no dog in the transmission war fight, MTs are fun, a *good* DCT is fun; both require symmetry with the rest of the engineering to be fun, and both also favor different scenarios ... thus in some cars for some scenarios I'd take an MT, and in others I'd take a DCT. My 2011 m3, dct for sure, my 2015 dct for sure, my 2018 comp ... in retrospect I'd have gotten the MT.

It's just for me personally there's no default choice - gotta try 'em both and live with the choice or, better, have 'em both!

That said, I get there are people who only like one or the other in all cases.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

a *good* DCT is fun;

Can’t emphasize this enough as there are plenty of “bad” DCTs out there. Case in point, the Alfa 4C. That has to be one of the worst gearboxes I’ve ever interacted with, which is a massive surprise / insanely infuriating given how well tuned the rest of the package is. It’s is literally a gearbox away from being a lotus slayer.

DCTs will never be a manual, but I don’t think that should be the selling point of them, I think a DCT seeks to emulate the speed and feel of a true dog box / sequential transmission without the insane wear and maintenance of one. Plus I think in 2021, manual is more of a state of mind considering many in the road can barely even drive an automatic, let alone think about what gear to be in…

[Humdizzle]

I haven't found an auto I like yet. 340i, lc500, tlx... all a big no for me. There's a reason why all the exotic companies still use a dct and not that trash zf8. It's sad when a damn macan has a better trans than the 'bespoke' 10 speed auto the lc500 i tested or an M8.

All the dct cars I've driven were great in terms of transmission. GTR, 458, huracan, f80, e92, gt3. Admittedly, I did update my gtr transmission software from 2010 to 2015 with a Cobb tuner which was probably the best mod I did to the car. Maybe the worst dct I drove was a jetta gli?... but I imagine it's not that hard to flash it to a golf R transmission tune or something.

So it's either manual or dct for me as well for a performance car.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Arcades

I am definitely not as tech savy as CanAut but I can definitely tell the times I had test driven recent Benz cars that the MCT wasn't a dual clutch. It was the behavior of the car that I knew it wasn't a DCT. Especially since I love DCTs, I can pretty much always tell between a dual clutch and a planetary auto tranny.

MCT wasn't impressive though. It didn't have the feel of a DCT but it wasn't as fast as a DCT either. Not sure if the recent cars changed this or not but when I drove them, I was no where impressed by it.

The ones in the CLA, which I think are actual DCTs, aren't... great either.

Again, I wasn’t saying Mercs MCT perfectly mimicked a DCT. I was saying it is closer to the feel of a DCT than any ZF8 I’ve driven. Even the one in the Cayenne.

As far as which shifts faster, both in full attack mode (at least the 9 speed in the C63S) you’d be hard pressed to tell which shifted faster. The MCT doesn’t have that feel as the DCT, but actual shifts have to be damn close.

Originally Posted by GrussGott

I have no dog in the transmission war fight, MTs are fun, a *good* DCT is fun; both require symmetry with the rest of the engineering to be fun, and both also favor different scenarios ... thus in some cars for some scenarios I'd take an MT, and in others I'd take a DCT. My 2011 m3, dct for sure, my 2015 dct for sure, my 2018 comp ... in retrospect I'd have gotten the MT.

It's just for me personally there's no default choice - gotta try 'em both and live with the choice or, better, have 'em both!

That said, I get there are people who only like one or the other in all cases.

I’m not an MT purist and I can definitely concede that a DCT/PDK fit a car or a situation better than a MT. For me though, I’ve never had more fun with a DCT/PDK than MT. For fun I think I’d always go MT.

My thing is people saying a DCT/PDK acts like a manual which I disagree with. Just because it rolls when in neutral doesn’t make it act like one. Any ZF8, DCT and MCT can give you full manual control over shifts via the paddles, it’s just the feel and speed of the shift that is different. We have a cat that literally acts like a dog. Is he a dog? No he’s a quirky cool cat. To me a DCT is a quirky automatic regardless of its guts. If it doesn’t have a third pedal it’s an auto.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by minn19

Again, I wasn't saying Mercs MCT perfectly mimicked a DCT. I was saying it is closer to the feel of a DCT than any ZF8 I've driven. Even the one in the Cayenne.

As far as which shifts faster, both in full attack mode (at least the 9 speed in the C63S) you'd be hard pressed to tell which shifted faster. The MCT doesn't have that feel as the DCT, but actual shifts have to be damn close.

I'm not an MT purist and I can definitely concede that a DCT/PDK fit a car or a situation better than a MT. For me though, I've never had more fun with a DCT/PDK than MT. For fun I think I'd always go MT.

My thing is people saying a DCT/PDK acts like a manual which I disagree with. Just because it rolls when in neutral doesn't make it act like one. Any ZF8, DCT and MCT can give you full manual control over shifts via the paddles, it's just the feel and speed of the shift that is different. We have a cat that literally acts like a dog. Is he a dog? No he's a quirky cool cat. To me a DCT is a quirky automatic regardless of its guts. If it doesn't have a third pedal it's an auto.

That's essentially how I view it as well, regardless of the techno-wizardry.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by minn19

That is/would be cool to have in traffic. The C63S had a semi self driving mode but it wasn’t very smooth/tended to wander as well. Enough so that I never really felt comfortable using it.

Agreed about the ZF as well. I can already tell that I’ll have it in sport mode almost exclusively due to it being as you say mushy or lazy in comfort. It does shift really quick and smooth in sport with with the paddles but there is no fun drama there like a DCT gives. The MCT in the Merc was very good but I had a hard time driving it smoothly starting off and coming to a stop sometimes. In comfort it tries to get to 9th far too quickly IMO and that was annoying. When driven in anger though it was very similar to the DCT. FormulaMMM can probably give a better review of it, especially in comparison to BMWs DCT.

+1 on wandering and easily confused lane assist. Works on a well defined highway.

In the most aggressive gearbox setting, no complaints on AMG MCT upshifts. Little delay between paddle action and shift, thuds into gear with a characteristic that suits the overall character of the car (thug). Not as crisp or smooth as DCT, but doesn't detract from the acceleration experience.

Can't say the same for downshifts. Single, or especially, multiple downshifts. At its worst when downshifting manually from "Comfort" auto mode, e.g., in preparation for a pass. Incomparable to a E9X DCT triple downshift from a cruise in 7th gear.

Say E9X DCT because I still think that's the sharpest, most interactive gearbox I've ever experienced, particularly w/ E92 GTS DCT software. Even as compared to F82 GTS DCT, 992 PDK, 458 dual clutch (think most similar), Veloster N DCT (yeah I threw a Hyundai in the list, shout out to Albert).

Crazy E9X DCT was developed like 15 years ago now. Lost some sharpness after nearly 50,000 miles and however many track days, but at its mechanical best, so damn good.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

+1 on wandering and easily confused lane assist. Works on a well defined highway.

In the most aggressive gearbox setting, no complaints on AMG MCT upshifts. Little delay between paddle action and shift, thuds into gear with a characteristic that suits the overall character of the car (thug). Not as crisp or smooth as DCT, but doesn't detract from the acceleration experience.

Can't say the same for downshifts. Single, or especially, multiple downshifts. At its worst when downshifting manually from "Comfort" auto mode, e.g., in preparation for a pass. Incomparable to a E9X DCT triple downshift from a cruise in 7th gear.

Say E9X DCT because I still think that's the sharpest, most interactive gearbox I've ever experienced, particularly w/ E92 GTS DCT software. Even as compared to F82 GTS DCT, 992 PDK, 458 dual clutch (think most similar), Veloster N DCT (yeah I threw a Hyundai in the list, shout out to Albert).

Crazy E9X DCT was developed like 15 years ago now. Lost some sharpness after nearly 50,000 miles and however many track days, but at its mechanical best, so damn good.

Forgot about the downshifts, definitely disappointing compared to a DCT. Never took on the track so never really did a lot of multiple downshift corners etc. Agreed on the freeway downshifts to, if in comfort I got used to pushing the I button the steering wheel to get into sport mode for better reaction.

Already miss that TT V8.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by minn19

Forgot about the downshifts, definitely disappointing compared to a DCT. Never took on the track so never really did a lot of multiple downshift corners etc. Agreed on the freeway downshifts to, if on comfort I got used to pushing the I button the steering wheel to get into sport mode for better reaction.

Already miss that TT V8.

In defense of the 9 speed, can get a legit 26+ mpg on road trips, highway and backroads. Pretty remarkable considering the nuke under the hood.

1LE, AMG, Cayman, wifey was probably due for one.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by minn19

I don’t get into the techno side like you do. Just an average dude having fun with cars. For me it felt closer to how the DCT felt shifting than the ZF8. Agreed though, it doesn’t replicate the DCT experience, especially one turned up to full attack mode probably for the reasons you stated. I need the Homer meme……”can you repeat the part of stuff where you said all about the things.”

I’ll respond with this though to people that still say things like Gruss does about DCTs vs MTs. Yes you have the control of a MT but it isn’t a MT IMO. Nor/not even as close as fun, of course my opinion as well. Because the planetary things get locked up by my left foot and the right hand moves the lever thingy to another number then left foot unlocks planetary things and right foot goes down, hence sending dopamine to my cro-magnon brain. Good technical explanation of a MT?

Tech tidbit: there are no planetary things in a MT (or DCT for that matter)

[minn19]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Tech tidbit: there are no planetary things in a MT (or DCT for that matter)

Damn it.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

In defense of the 9 speed, can get a legit 26+ mpg on road trips, highway and backroads. Pretty remarkable considering the nuke under the hood.

1LE, AMG, Cayman, wifey was probably due for one.

Definitely agreed! Still got the MT Cayman, life is good.

[swagon]

How much of a brand douchebag would I be if I were to buy this BMW M suitcase (off ebay)?

My car is white and debadged, by the way