Audio system upgrade advice/recommendations?

[N44RP]

Just did Bavsound everything minus the amp.

Definitely puts out more volume and punch (maybe 15-20% more punch and 35% more volume). I’m contentish
Maybe I’ll throw their amp in there too

[Motown65]

Hopefully I’m not too late but here’s the best advice I can give you from a HUGE audio guy that has researched the science behind sound and takes actual measurements and not just listening.

Don’t buy the bavsound, bimmer sound, whatever sound, hertz, Rockford or any plug and play speaker/ amp kit.

The hk drivers are fine especially if you do want to spend the money to get a dsp on them.. the factory system has nothing below around 40hz. If you want that low end you can add your sub with a lci-2 and for an amp I’d recommend an audiofrog mono or jl xd600/1.

Now if you care about accurately recreating music you will want to get a mic. I’d get the audiofrog umik or the mini dsp one. This along with room eq wizard will allow you to actually measure and see what your audio system is doing. This is where an eq comes in hand because you can use it to make actual corrections and not just assumptions.

The factory hk system has one thing that makes it really good. The logic 7 processing. It’s not utilized in the best way by bmw so the next best step after adding the sub is to get a helix vtwelve. Now this is a lot of money but it gives you ultimate control to make the drivers super precise.

To make everything plug and play get that autotrchnic harness. It’s a pass through harness that goes inbetween the factory amplifier harness and the amp so you can cut it up to tap into whatever speakers you want and not mess with the factory wiring. Also buy their delete harness for the engine noise module back by the hk amp to clean up the signal.

Ultimately it all comes down to how you want the car to sound. If you want accuracy and precision you’re looking at a good bit of wiring and probably the 4K but this is better than the integral audio because you can use the logic 7 to make a perfect stage for all the seat in the car. Or you can go with a less expensive dsp if you only want the driver seat to sound good. Or you can just throw money into making the car have some crazy loud, muddy bass.

Another thing is for source material just use Apple Music or any music app that gives you Atleast 320 kb any higher is a waste.

[FrankMstein]

Originally Posted by Motown65

Hopefully I’m not too late but here’s the best advice I can give you from a HUGE audio guy that has researched the science behind sound and takes actual measurements and not just listening.

Don’t buy the bavsound, bimmer sound, whatever sound, hertz, Rockford or any plug and play speaker/ amp kit.

The hk drivers are fine especially if you do want to spend the money to get a dsp on them.. the factory system has nothing below around 40hz. If you want that low end you can add your sub with a lci-2 and for an amp I’d recommend an audiofrog mono or jl xd600/1.

Now if you care about accurately recreating music you will want to get a mic. I’d get the audiofrog umik or the mini dsp one. This along with room eq wizard will allow you to actually measure and see what your audio system is doing. This is where an eq comes in hand because you can use it to make actual corrections and not just assumptions.

The factory hk system has one thing that makes it really good. The logic 7 processing. It’s not utilized in the best way by bmw so the next best step after adding the sub is to get a helix vtwelve. Now this is a lot of money but it gives you ultimate control to make the drivers super precise.

To make everything plug and play get that autotrchnic harness. It’s a pass through harness that goes inbetween the factory amplifier harness and the amp so you can cut it up to tap into whatever speakers you want and not mess with the factory wiring. Also buy their delete harness for the engine noise module back by the hk amp to clean up the signal.

Ultimately it all comes down to how you want the car to sound. If you want accuracy and precision you’re looking at a good bit of wiring and probably the 4K but this is better than the integral audio because you can use the logic 7 to make a perfect stage for all the seat in the car. Or you can go with a less expensive dsp if you only want the driver seat to sound good. Or you can just throw money into making the car have some crazy loud, muddy bass.

Another thing is for source material just use Apple Music or any music app that gives you Atleast 320 kb any higher is a waste.

I can agree with most of this except the last line. Real audio quality is in a CD. If you ever get the chance to A/B the same song on a CD against, well, anything, you will be amazed at the difference, even in the stock system.

[pfrederi]

Originally Posted by Motown65

Hopefully I’m not too late but here’s the best advice I can give you from a HUGE audio guy that has researched the science behind sound and takes actual measurements and not just listening.

Don’t buy the bavsound, bimmer sound, whatever sound, hertz, Rockford or any plug and play speaker/ amp kit.

The hk drivers are fine especially if you do want to spend the money to get a dsp on them.. the factory system has nothing below around 40hz. If you want that low end you can add your sub with a lci-2 and for an amp I’d recommend an audiofrog mono or jl xd600/1.

Now if you care about accurately recreating music you will want to get a mic. I’d get the audiofrog umik or the mini dsp one. This along with room eq wizard will allow you to actually measure and see what your audio system is doing. This is where an eq comes in hand because you can use it to make actual corrections and not just assumptions.

The factory hk system has one thing that makes it really good. The logic 7 processing. It’s not utilized in the best way by bmw so the next best step after adding the sub is to get a helix vtwelve. Now this is a lot of money but it gives you ultimate control to make the drivers super precise.

To make everything plug and play get that autotrchnic harness. It’s a pass through harness that goes inbetween the factory amplifier harness and the amp so you can cut it up to tap into whatever speakers you want and not mess with the factory wiring. Also buy their delete harness for the engine noise module back by the hk amp to clean up the signal.

Ultimately it all comes down to how you want the car to sound. If you want accuracy and precision you’re looking at a good bit of wiring and probably the 4K but this is better than the integral audio because you can use the logic 7 to make a perfect stage for all the seat in the car. Or you can go with a less expensive dsp if you only want the driver seat to sound good. Or you can just throw money into making the car have some crazy loud, muddy bass.

Another thing is for source material just use Apple Music or any music app that gives you Atleast 320 kb any higher is a waste.

Sounds like some good info. Any advice for those of us that may have "some crazy loud, muddy bass"?? In my particular case I dnt know how to adjust the numerous settings on my SONY AMP for optimum sound. Sounds like you have ton of experience. Any help on my setup is appreciated. I currently have the settings on the SONY amp set to "OFF". I want the underseat woofers to play more mids and more tight bass (mids to lows) and the sub well to play subs(lows). My issue is i dnt know how to set the many settings on the SONY XM-GS4 AMP. Any help here is appreciated. My setup is:

- 1 LC2i Line Converter
- 1 SONY XM-GS4 AMP (used in bridge mode as 3 channel AMP)
- 2 8in SWS Underseat Woofers (4 Ohm)
- 1 JL Audio 10W3V3

Heres a pic of the controls on my amp. Thanks

[FrankMstein]

Originally Posted by pfrederi

Sounds like some good info. Any advice for those of us that may have "some crazy loud, muddy bass"?? In my particular case I dnt know how to adjust the numerous settings on my SONY AMP for optimum sound. Sounds like you have ton of experience. Any help on my setup is appreciated. I currently have the settings on the SONY amp set to "OFF". I want the underseat woofers to play more mids and more tight bass (mids to lows) and the sub well to play subs(lows). My issue is i dnt know how to set the many settings on the SONY XM-GS4 AMP. Any help here is appreciated. My setup is:

- 1 LC2i Line Converter
- 1 SONY XM-GS4 AMP (used in bridge mode as 3 channel AMP)
- 2 8in SWS Underseat Woofers (4 Ohm)
- 1 JL Audio 10W3V3

Heres a pic of the controls on my amp. Thanks

Gain (Main? on the LC21) all the way down, micro adjustments up until you hear distortion, not max settings on any of them for sure. Get test tones from youtube or actual tracks. Sounds like you are over driving the subs. Send actual pics of the actual settings presently on the LC2 and GS4.

[pfrederi]

Originally Posted by FrankMstein

Gain (Main? on the LC21) all the way down, micro adjustments up until you hear distortion, not max settings on any of them for sure. Get test tones from youtube or actual tracks. Sounds like you are over driving the subs. Send actual pics of the actual settings presently on the LC2 and GS4.

Thanks for your help. I did do that setting on the LC2i instructions and looked at youtube as well but im wondering if I use the SONY AMP controls (instead of the LC2i settings) if it will sound clearer and better as theres more controls and also a Low pass and Hi Pass filters as well. I have all the controls settings on the SONY AMP set to OFF and Im currently using the adjustments on the LC2i. Ive attached 2 pic below of the current settings. Thanks for your input.

[FrankMstein]

Are the levels at 2v or .3v in the lower pic? Start all the levels at the lowest settings then move higher until you hear what you like. With and without the main speaker on if that is possible. Your LC2 looks to be ok but start low and work up. Youtube can be a good source of tuning advise. Can be...

[Motown65]

Originally Posted by FrankMstein

I can agree with most of this except the last line. Real audio quality is in a CD. If you ever get the chance to A/B the same song on a CD against, well, anything, you will be amazed at the difference, even in the stock system.

I’ve A/B Apple Music and tidal hifi and can’t tell the difference. Andy Wehmeyer has done testing to prove 320 is all that’s needed.

[Motown65]

Originally Posted by pfrederi

Sounds like some good info. Any advice for those of us that may have "some crazy loud, muddy bass"?? In my particular case I dnt know how to adjust the numerous settings on my SONY AMP for optimum sound. Sounds like you have ton of experience. Any help on my setup is appreciated. I currently have the settings on the SONY amp set to "OFF". I want the underseat woofers to play more mids and more tight bass (mids to lows) and the sub well to play subs(lows). My issue is i dnt know how to set the many settings on the SONY XM-GS4 AMP. Any help here is appreciated. My setup is:

- 1 LC2i Line Converter
- 1 SONY XM-GS4 AMP (used in bridge mode as 3 channel AMP)
- 2 8in SWS Underseat Woofers (4 Ohm)
- 1 JL Audio 10W3V3

Heres a pic of the controls on my amp. Thanks

First off you need to read the audiocontrol manual for the lc2i. I’m not sure on that model exactly but I had one of their dsp’s and it either wanted a 0db test tone or pink noise played with the outputs disconnected. Then you turn up the gain till the max light comes on then back it off a touch. Also that’s with the headunit volume set to its max undistorted volume. After the lc2i is gain matched you hook it up to the Sony and you can use a multimeter connected to the speaker outs to get an ac voltage. You turn the amp gain up till the voltage matches what the amplifier puts out for your speaker impedance. Go on YouTube and look up how to use a damn to set amp gains.

I’d replace the sws underseats with the hk ones if your system is hk. Also I’m assuming you have the hk system for the rest of this. The underseats cover like 40-160hz. You could hpf them at like 100hz and lpf the sub at 60hz. Those are rough estimates. You really need to spend the $100 and get a mic to measure the frequency response. This way you can see if the sub and midbass are in phase or not. You could also get a cheaper dsp like a mini 4x8 or a Dayton audio one to process just the midbass and the sub. You definitely need a mic for a dsp to make any sense.

[Motown65]

Originally Posted by pfrederi

Thanks for your help. I did do that setting on the LC2i instructions and looked at youtube as well but im wondering if I use the SONY AMP controls (instead of the LC2i settings) if it will sound clearer and better as theres more controls and also a Low pass and Hi Pass filters as well. I have all the controls settings on the SONY AMP set to OFF and Im currently using the adjustments on the LC2i. Ive attached 2 pic below of the current settings. Thanks for your input.

The accubass, bass boost, this boost that boost turn it all to 0. Set lc2i gain properly, set amp gain properly, lpf the sub, subsonic sub if it’s in a ported box, hpf the underseat, the amp gains set properly are the MAX. If the sub is too loud compared to the underseat midbass turn the gain down. You should only have like 9sb more bass then mids. Anymore and you pull the bass to the trunk.

[FrankMstein]

Originally Posted by Motown65

I’ve A/B Apple Music and tidal hifi and can’t tell the difference. Andy Wehmeyer has done testing to prove 320 is all that’s needed.

CD and Tidal bitrate is always 1,411 Kbps, iTunes and Apple 256. Tidal has a limited range in my genres. There is a vast difference to me, maybe it's the SPARS codes that can make a slight difference? When iTunes finally picked up Tool, there was a significant difference for me. Have Andy include me in his next sampling rate test...I'll skew the testing.

[jmciver]

Originally Posted by FrankMstein

CD and Tidal bitrate is always 1,411 Kbps, iTunes and Apple 256. Tidal has a limited range in my genres. There is a vast difference to me, maybe it's the SPARS codes that can make a slight difference? When iTunes finally picked up Tool, there was a significant difference for me. Have Andy include me in his next sampling rate test...I'll skew the testing.

I also agree with this…. Just because you can't hear a difference, does not mean there isn't one. When playing music on a system with quality components, properly matched and tuned, the difference can be very noticeable - and you don't need to be an audiophile to hear it either. So if your ears can't tell the difference between a $10 transistor radio and a $10k custom audio system, then paying more for the higher quality music streaming may not be worth it to you (along with upgrading you car stereo in the first place).

Before I upgraded my system and my source of music, I knew about the technical differences in music quality (i.e. bit rates, etc) but did not pay too much attention to it. I had been using the free streaming services (like Pandora) for a long time (since I can be cheap at times ) and after I upgraded my system, the music did sound better. For shits and giggles, I tried a free Tidal and Deezer HiFi trial subscriptions to see how much things sounded better. I definitely noticed a difference, especially going back and forth between HiFi and non-HiFi streaming sources. So since I spent the time and money on a quality system upgrade in my car, I decided to keep the better streaming service, and I am glad I did as I enjoy listening to music more in my car now, which is why I upgraded my system in the first place (I use Deezer HiFi now).

All that said, with streaming music quality, there does come a point of diminishing returns as the human ear is only so good and the acoustic environment inside a car is far from ideal - even with a perfectly tuned high end system. But anything CD quality or greater will sound different and better IMHO - garbage in = garbage out .

So if anyone does not believe this, after you upgrade your system (with good components, properly tuned, etc), give one of the free streaming "HiFi" trials a try. If you can't hear the difference or don't think the difference is worth the extra $$, then don't pay for the extra music quality - so you lose nothing. But if you are spending money on an upgraded system, wouldn't you want to play high quality music on it to enjoy it to its fullest?

[pfrederi]

Originally Posted by Motown65

First off you need to read the audiocontrol manual for the lc2i. I’m not sure on that model exactly but I had one of their dsp’s and it either wanted a 0db test tone or pink noise played with the outputs disconnected. Then you turn up the gain till the max light comes on then back it off a touch. Also that’s with the headunit volume set to its max undistorted volume. After the lc2i is gain matched you hook it up to the Sony and you can use a multimeter connected to the speaker outs to get an ac voltage. You turn the amp gain up till the voltage matches what the amplifier puts out for your speaker impedance. Go on YouTube and look up how to use a damn to set amp gains.

I’d replace the sws underseats with the hk ones if your system is hk. Also I’m assuming you have the hk system for the rest of this. The underseats cover like 40-160hz. You could hpf them at like 100hz and lpf the sub at 60hz. Those are rough estimates. You really need to spend the $100 and get a mic to measure the frequency response. This way you can see if the sub and midbass are in phase or not. You could also get a cheaper dsp like a mini 4x8 or a Dayton audio one to process just the midbass and the sub. You definitely need a mic for a dsp to make any sense.

Thanks - And yes I have the HK system:

As an added note I spliced the source signal for the woofers and sub (to the LC2i which feeds the SONY 4 ch AMP) off of the 2 stock underseat woofer signal cables. Ill try your suggestion and report back. I also called SONY to get a better of what all those buttons and knobs are for exactly as the manual was very vague. Wish me luck. Im going back in Lol.

Oh yeah btw the LC2i has a tiny adjustment button the side of the unit. I think thats the gain for the unit but ill recheck that as well.

Thanks to all.

[pfrederi]

*UPDATE*

So I finally "tuned" my system. I set the LPF\HPF and Gain on the AMP in addition to setting the LC2i as well. It sounds great inside the car but I guess i was expecting it to sound pretty good outside the car as well. It does, but if I walk away a good 3-4 car lengths I cant really get the clarity\bass as much anymore cpmpared tp previous systems Ive had. Im not looking to shake the neighborhood but i wouldve liked a bit more powerful. The AMP consistently gets pretty damn hot to touch but doesnt shutoff. Im starting to think maybe my system is underpowered. Im looking at upgrading the AMP to the JL Audio HD600/4 AMP.