05-21-2013, 07:29 AM | #23 |
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"Official" weight for M3 F80 is 1.490 kg (EU), that is 160 kg less than M3 E90. We'll see if true.
Not necessaraly. There is a wieght different of only 7 kg between N54 and S65. Turbocharging hard-ware also has weight, especially if it has to be reliable under hard use (i.e tracking). But anyway, who tracks their M3? |
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05-22-2013, 05:07 AM | #24 | |
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In front of me lies the sport auto 6/2013 with the last ever sport auto test of the M392. Interesting for this thread might be the last part of the text: "'The M3 CSL for me is the benchmark regarding handling' explains M-Chef Nitschke. [...] The new M3 will be available with DCT or MT and for the first time a Ceramic brake as an option. Much more important: It shall weigh nearly 100kg less." Not the best translation, but you should get the point. The transmission should be available for you as we Germans do not even get an MT M5 like you US-guys do. If you refer to the M3 CSL as M seems to do, this car HAS to be lighter and it is no secret that the weight of an E46 M3 was always set as target weight for the F8x. |
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05-22-2013, 09:05 AM | #25 | ||
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In such a case, whether an independently weighed F8x actually comes in 200lbs less than an independently weighed E9x will remain to be seen. Quote:
One big problem is that it is difficult for us as consumers to compare apples to apples in the real world due to differences in standard equipment, especially when you start talking different regions and so forth. Then, of course, optional equipment comes into play, and two equivalent pieces of functionality or technology from different eras could have vastly differing weights as well, but the heavier one may be much more robust and feature-laiden, etc. At some level of abstraction (sufficient scrutiny) there really is no true apples-apples comparison to be made. And from a marketing perspective, this presents plenty of opportunity. So, only BMW knows exactly how they compare the weights of two particular products, even when claims about individual components like the chassis or frame. In the end the finished F8x products will outperform their E9x M3 equivalents,but I strongly doubt we will have a sub 3,300 lb. for or five passenger car this size before next decade when CFRP becomes more mainstream. |
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05-24-2013, 12:21 AM | #26 |
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Really, there is an official weight? That simply cannot be true given how far away production is. Am I missing some key point in your post?
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05-24-2013, 06:50 AM | #27 |
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In the current AutoBild the well known german car journalist Rolf Kacher brings the all new M4 at an weight of about 1.495kg (EU-Weight?). So the posted numbers for the F80 of about 1.480kg to 1.490kg seems to be correct!
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05-24-2013, 08:13 AM | #28 | |
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I will try to dig out the actual numbers. EDIT: E92 DCT, carbon roof, premium sound, idrive, full tank: 3688lb E46, 6MT, no nav, moon roof, premium sound, full tank: 3551lb Difference: 137 lb Last edited by CanAutM3; 06-12-2013 at 02:12 PM.. |
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05-24-2013, 10:36 AM | #29 |
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My evo weighted little over 3300lb.. and the thing was tin can with hardly any luxuries.. doubt m4 will be near that #.. ill be surprised to see 3500.. maybe lots of aluminum & cf..
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05-24-2013, 11:08 AM | #30 |
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05-24-2013, 11:53 AM | #31 | |
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In fact, E46 weight was a target that's been quoted many times by BMW workers. But I doubt that there is an official weight yet. |
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06-12-2013, 05:24 AM | #32 |
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06-12-2013, 05:58 AM | #33 |
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Not a valid argument to determine engine weight. F30 weighs less than E90's with the exact same engine and that is without a carbon roof that E92 had over E46.
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06-12-2013, 06:01 AM | #34 |
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They will have VP builds using production tooling under test now, so can't see why they won't know the exact weight at this stage.
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06-12-2013, 08:19 AM | #35 |
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I'm speaking of the engine only. The current V8 is lighter than the past I6 M3's. And that was WITHOUT the added weight of turbos. What makes you think a tri turbocharged I6 engine will be lighter than the M3's current V8? 2 cylinders isn't enough to negate all the added weight of the associated plumbing.
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06-12-2013, 12:10 PM | #36 | |
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06-12-2013, 03:43 PM | #38 | |
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06-12-2013, 04:56 PM | #39 |
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don't dismiss the added weight of 2+ turbos and the associated plumbing. I would be surprised if the new engine weighs less than the S65.
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06-12-2013, 05:21 PM | #40 |
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Will it? Both the N54 and N55 have aluminum blocks. The N52 and N53 use a magnesium/aluminum alloy for the block, but to date no turbocharged engine from BMW has. It would be great if the S55 changes that, but I have my doubts.
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06-12-2013, 05:24 PM | #41 | |
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06-13-2013, 03:31 AM | #42 |
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Don't forget how much mass there is in the cylinder heads and overhead valve assemblies. That will help an I6 (assuming that's what she'll be) in comparison to any V. Of course it won't help relative to an existing I6.
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06-13-2013, 06:04 AM | #43 | |
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But there are strange rumors that the new M3/M4 engine would get more than 3.0ltr. probably as much as 3.3ltr. (3.296ccm) as I posted in my closed thread, which for me cries V6 based on the S63Tü, but an member with ties to the M-GmbH told me, that it would be nevertheless an I6 (third source for 3.3ltr.). As I asked him how 3.3ltr., HDZ and Highpressure-Turbos could work together in an I6 based on an N54/55-Block, because of the very high needed stroke of > 99mm, which is needed to reach 3.3ltr. out of an N54/55, as it is impossible to make the bore greater than 84mm in an N54/55 block ... he tolds me that the M3/M4 engine would probably be basesd on an greater and stronger engineblock older than the N54/55 (S54?) ... I do not know what is in this rumor on it, but it would be for me - due to the lower stroke - the only possible way to imagine an 3.3ltr.I6 Triturbo with 7.800rpm redline in the new M3/M4. But an possible S54-block meens that the new engine would be clearly much heavier than the famous S65. Nevertheless, regardless of the weight of the new engine the whole M3 will be significantly lighter than its predecessor or the F30 335i ... the EU-weight of 1483kg = ~3270lbs be called from multiple sources as the current state of affairs. Probably this time the F80M3 sedan will be even lighter than the F82M4 coupe , because a key weightsaving measure are the lightweight aluminum doors and at 4 doors, the potential savings are just greater. Greets Uli_HH Last edited by Uli_HH; 06-13-2013 at 06:13 AM.. |
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06-13-2013, 08:23 AM | #44 | |
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