M3/M4 vs. Tesla Model 3 Performance

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

I think its a nice rebuttal for those who instantly jumped to the notion that the taycan has a terrible driving range. Its pretty much the same as the tesla when you compare them at real world speeds. although why this is i'm not sure. the Porsche has a two speed transmission, but that 1st gear is only for launches, otherwise its always in top gear.

I agree EPA tests are misleading... nobody does 60mph on the highway around here. Its at least 70-80mph. I've found I always have to knock about 5-6 mpg off the hwy rating on the window sticker.

My GUESS is that at slow speeds, the Tesla software is better at managing the motors' power draw (making the tesla more efficient in the slower EPA test) while the Taycan 2 speed gearbox lets the motors stay in the efficient part of its power band at higher road speeds (making the taycan efficiency similar at the EPA speeds and the higher MT speed)

So, I've had to discuss EVs with many non EV people for almost 3 years now, and the reality is that even 80 miles range EV is fine for most people as a commuter, and everyone just can't get over the typical desire to plan for the rare 1-2 times per year event (i.e. annual road trip). When the longer ranges come into play during the road trips, what most don't realize is that it is more about the charging infrastructure than anything

[SflBimmer8484]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Doesn’t FBO N55 make less whp than stock F80?

Sorry I’m so jaded but it’s hard for me to get excited about a roll race with a relatively weak car like that

About 15 hp less than a stock m3. Point was it wasnt even close.

I did a race a gt2rs from 70. We hung together for about 2 seconds.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke

About 15 hp less than a stock m3. Point was it wasnt even close.

I did a race a gt2rs from 70. We hung together for about 2 seconds.

Nice. That’s longer that I would have guessed. Expected a 2RS to immediately blow the doors off a model 3P (139mph vs 116mph traps)

[f80er]

Being fast is cool but the car has to look good doing it. I just can't get over the looks of a 3p.

[Humdizzle]

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

Nice. Rs6 walked the model 3 cleanly right from the dig.

Great acceleration despite being 4600lb

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

...

In other news: Water wet - Film at 11.

[nicknaz]

Guys one thing we haven’t discussed at all is charging. I have started to use the model 3 for longer days of driving to see clients or show visitors around and it’s definitely required planning.

Here in norcal, the SC are pretty full a decent amount of the time, and I have the stock SAE J1772 adapter for L2 charging at home and elsewhere, and I purchased a $450 CHaDeMo adapter to give another DC charging option (33-50kw per hr).

Not to mention I have 4 different charging network membership cards in the car.

Once you move away from the “charge at home” use case, you really need to give charging a level of thought that just isn’t even a factor for gassers (unless you are doing something on standard like running a 100 octane tune in the street).

Just wanted to toss that in there, since I haven’t seen that discussed in most reviews. It’s just kind of glossed over before going back to talking about pulls from a dig or low roll.

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Guys one thing we haven’t discussed at all is charging. I have started to use the model 3 for longer days of driving to see clients or show visitors around and it’s definitely required planning...

Out of curiosity, at what SOC do you start each of these days, and typically at what SOC do you start to look for recharge options?

I've commuted and done long trips in mine, but have only done one "local" day that required recharging, which I accomplished by planning our lunch at a place with destination charging.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

Out of curiosity, at what SOC do you start each of these days, and typically at what SOC do you start to look for recharge options?

I've commuted and done long trips in mine, but have only done one "local" day that required recharging, which I accomplished by planning our lunch at a place with destination charging.

I start at 90% SoC and definitely plan for charging around 10-20%.

A good example is 150 mi round trip to take guests around to Napa Valley from my home, then 60 mi round trip to the city for dinner, and some driving around town in between. That’s pretty close to the 240mi range I get (285wh/mi average consumption), so I’m definitely looking to recharge sometime that day so I’m not returning home with 5% SoC.

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I start at 90% SoC and definitely plan for charging around 10-20%.

A good example is 150 mi round trip to take guests around to Napa Valley from my home, then 60 mi round trip to the city for dinner, and some driving around town in between. That’s pretty close to the 240mi range I get (285wh/mi average consumption), so I’m definitely looking to recharge sometime that day so I’m not returning home with 5% SoC.

Appreciate the details.

When I know I have a long drive in front of me, I'll charge to 95% or even 100%, and I've returned home a couple of times between 5 and 10%.

I charge to 85% normally, and rarely go below about 25%.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

Appreciate the details.

When I know I have a long drive in front of me, I'll charge to 95% or even 100%, and I've returned home a couple of times between 5 and 10%.

I charge to 85% normally, and rarely go below about 25%.

You too are a few more miles away from needing lots of charge station cards and charger adapters

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

You too are a few more miles away from needing lots of charge station cards and charger adapters

It’s telling that in 15K miles and 14 months I’ve only needed non-Supercharging/away from home charging once.

[SflBimmer8484]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

Appreciate the details.

When I know I have a long drive in front of me, I'll charge to 95% or even 100%, and I've returned home a couple of times between 5 and 10%.

I charge to 85% normally, and rarely go below about 25%.

Why wouldnt you charge to 100 on these days? The only downside of charging to 100% is the loss of Regen braking. Other than that the battery isnt being worn out any faster since 100% is technically not 100% with the buffer it has built in.

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke

Why wouldnt you charge to 100 on these days? The only downside of charging to 100% is the loss of Regen braking. Other than that the battery isnt being worn out any faster since 100% is technically not 100% with the buffer it has built in.

My impression after reading quite a bit on the topic is that it's better for battery longevity if the SOC is kept between 20 and 80-85%.

My 70-mile round-trip commute gives me no real reason/need to charge any further.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

It’s telling that in 15K miles and 14 months I’ve only needed non-Supercharging/away from home charging once.

It’s a good for your usage pattern and driving style.

My car has 220mi effective range before I need to hit up an SC, based on the hilly freeways, driving 70+ etc, and I definitely notice it more than once in 14 months.

YMMV as they say

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Guys one thing we haven’t discussed at all is charging. I have started to use the model 3 for longer days of driving to see clients or show visitors around and it’s definitely required planning.

With 1 year and 12+K miles under my belt in Model 3P (~310 battery range), I've only had to rely on mid-trip charging about 10-15 times.
Rely, as in I had to recharge to complete the round-trip vs. charging somewhere because it's free, or because that was the only way to secure a desirable parking spot.

That includes trips up/down I-95 to Boston and DC (~250 miles one way).
I start these trips charged to 100% (L2 at home), and then plug-in for an overnight recharge at the hotel (vast majority have chargers onsite, or a parking lot with a charger nearby).
For longer trips, I always fly. 3-4 hours of driving is my tipping point for driving vs. flying.

Between Tesla SuperChargers (fast, but also the most expensive option), ChargePoint and EVGo networks, I'm fully covered up/down the East coast. Never had to wait for a charging stall to open up, but on two occasions I had grabbed the last spot available from a bank of Tesla SC's (both times at an outlet shopping mall).

Yes, it takes longer to charge an EV than refuel an ICE car.
But if you charge overnight, it's an irrelevant data point.

Originally Posted by ZCD1

Out of curiosity, at what SOC do you start each of these days, and typically at what SOC do you start to look for recharge options?

In the summer, I charge to 80% over the weekend, and usually don't have to plug it in till the following weekend (overnight charge at home). In other words - the same consumption pattern as I get with my ICE cars (refuel weekly). I plug it in before it drops much below 20%.

In the winter, I charge to 80% 2x/week, just because electricity consumption rate goes up (from ~280 Wh/mi in the summer, to ~380 Wh/mi this winter), and my kids play seasonal sports that require more commuting in the winter months.

For longer trips, I charge to 100%, and no longer bother to research where I will re-charge at the destination. There are always multiple EV charging options everywhere I go.

With one exception - skiing resorts.
For those, I always take our large ICE car. Partly because I can throw all the gear inside without sacrificing seating room, partly because I don't need to worry about plowing through 1+" for powder and slush, and partly because I don't need to worry about battery SOC. But mostly for the first two.

a

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by afadeev

.

In the summer, I charge to 80% over the weekend, and usually don't have to plug it in till the following weekend (overnight charge at home). In other words - the same consumption pattern as I get with my ICE cars (refuel weekly). I plug it in before it drops much below 20%.

In the winter, I charge to 80% 2x/week, just because electricity consumption rate goes up (from ~280 Wh/mi in the summer, to ~380 Wh/mi this winter), and my kids play seasonal sports that require more commuting in the winter months.

a

You are using 60% of the battery per week or about 45kwh and get 3.57mi/kwh in the summer so you drive about 160 mi per week.

That’s 1-2 days of driving for me.

Makes a lot of sense why you don’t really think about charging, and I do (even thought I have an L2 at home and charge overnight as well).

[nicknaz]

Cup 2 and track pads now a factory option for model 3

https://shop.tesla.com/product/model-3-track-package

Software also getting updated and apparently the key updates are a data logger, 20 stage traction control, ability to change and fix the front / rear awd power bias (including full rwd), turn regen braking off or make it rwd only to help induce lift throttle oversteer

Slightly ironic that M3 CS is nerfed with pss tires, and EV can be optioned with cup2. Bmw should rethink their approach to tires in the USA.

My $0.02 is too bad there isn’t any camber plates or full coilover option, and there looks to be a $1k markup over aftermarket for those wheels tires and brake pads and fluid. (~20% Tesla tax)

[SflBimmer8484]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Cup 2 and track pads now a factory option for model 3

https://shop.tesla.com/product/model-3-track-package

Software also getting updated and apparently the key updates are a data logger, 20 stage traction control, ability to change and fix the front / rear awd power bias (including full rwd), turn regen braking off or make it rwd only to help induce lift throttle oversteer

Slightly ironic that M3 CS is nerfed with pss tires, and EV can be optioned with cup2. Bmw should rethink their approach to tires in the USA.

My $0.02 is too bad there isn’t any camber plates or full coilover option, and there looks to be a $1k markup over aftermarket for those wheels tires and brake pads and fluid. (~20% Tesla tax)

Never got the update and my buddies did :/

[turboawdfanatic]

Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke

Never got the update and my buddies did :/

I just got the update tonight. Don’t worry it’ll come!

[ZCD1]

Updated my car yesterday. 👍🏻