Has anyone had their brake pads seize to the rotors from road salt?

[Lotus99]

I've got an M2C, but since the brakes are really similar to yours, I thought I would ask here.

I live in the Pacific Northwest, so the winters are pretty mild, but wet. I have winter tires on my car and drive it daily. I don't have a garage to store her in though unfortunately.

A couple of weeks ago, we got some snow and they had salted the roads. After driving, I parked the car, and ended up not driving it for like 5 days. When I went to drive off, the car would not budge! The front brake pads had seized onto the rotors!

It was like having a line lock kit - I actually sat there spinning my rear tires a bit and the car would not budge. After trying that a few times, it broke loose finally, but upon braking, it was vibrating like crazy (you could feel it in the car, even as a passenger).

I took it in to the dealer, and was surprised to hear that is not considered a defect of any kind, and pretty much nothing with the M2 brakes is covered under warranty. My car only has 10,000 miles on it. I can understand if they think you have been taking the car to the track, or it is a wear and tear issue, that it would not be warrantied. But how can they claim it's normal what had happened?

I wonder how anyone else who parks their car outside in the rest of Canada which sees salt all winter or in the Northern parts of the US deals with this issue? I've not found any others who have experienced this.


So I decided to try to bed them in again, and did 10 hard stops from 60 to 10 MPH, cooled down, then repeated, and fortunately most of the vibration is gone, but it is still there a little bit on the highway.

Here's pictures of the front rotors now. Is the leftover rust going to eventually go away do you think? Will it cause issues down the road? Should I try to maybe sand it off myself, and if so, using which grit?
.

[behindthen0thing]

I would drive it for a while, it might smooth out. Otherwise you might be able to have the rotors turned. My rotors look similar to that when I let the car sit for a while but I don't have any vibration issues.

[LVI]

it'll go away over time but in the mean time, get your car washed to get rid of that salt.

[Lotus99]

The rotor in the upper picture has improved over the last few days, but the bottom one still has that 1/2 inch strip of heavy rust... Which is odd, because it's where the brake pad touches yet it's not improved at all.

[allinon72]

Originally Posted by behindthen0thing

I would drive it for a while, it might smooth out. Otherwise you might be able to have the rotors turned. My rotors look similar to that when I let the car sit for a while but I don't have any vibration issues.

You can't turn drilled rotors.

The corrosion on the rotor hat and lug nut suggest heavy salt exposure. More washing is probably needed to prevent this in the future.

[JoeFromPA]

I've daily driven my car for 5.5 years including now it's 6th PA winter. First off it's doing fantastic, but second let's talk about what you described.

Yes, if you park your car after it's heavily wetted the pads will stick to the rotors. I can't tell you how many times I've pulled out of the garage with a loud POP from them coming unstuck. It's normal and a function of our pad material, rotor material, and having them kept very close to each other by design.

I've had them get stuck maybe 2-3x where it requires me actually to put it in gear and give it meaningful throttle to unstick it. My tires have NEVER spun or anything like that. That seems insane to me unless you were running summer tires and they were 20 degrees and the floor was wet underneath or some similar set of conditions.

Regardless, in all cases simply by driving the car normally and braking heavily it's totally returned to normal with no lasting effects. Every single time.

And my car now has >70k miles on it on ALL original brake pads and rotors. They've never been touched.

[behindthen0thing]

Originally Posted by allinon72

You can't turn drilled rotors.

The corrosion on the rotor hat and lug nut suggest heavy salt exposure. More washing is probably needed to prevent this in the future.

you actually can have them turned. Maybe some places might turn you down but I assure you it is possible and it is done.

[thestimp]

You can machine those to a min spec, they diamond tip shave off the top layer off, pep boys and some commercial places will probably do it.

[Lotus99]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

I've daily driven my car for 5.5 years including now it's 6th PA winter. First off it's doing fantastic, but second let's talk about what you described.

Yes, if you park your car after it's heavily wetted the pads will stick to the rotors. I can't tell you how many times I've pulled out of the garage with a loud POP from them coming unstuck. It's normal and a function of our pad material, rotor material, and having them kept very close to each other by design.

I've had them get stuck maybe 2-3x where it requires me actually to put it in gear and give it meaningful throttle to unstick it. My tires have NEVER spun or anything like that. That seems insane to me unless you were running summer tires and they were 20 degrees and the floor was wet underneath or some similar set of conditions.

Regardless, in all cases simply by driving the car normally and braking heavily it's totally returned to normal with no lasting effects. Every single time.

And my car now has >70k miles on it on ALL original brake pads and rotors. They've never been touched.

Thanks for sharing your experience, but I'm not clear what your point / advice is as to what I should do?

I'm still shocked it happened and that BMW's response is that it's normal for a daily driver that's meant to see winters. You can't exactly hose down a car in -5°C / 20°F weather!

I almost ended up calling the tow truck. The car was NOT moving and it was crazy how much gas I was giving.

[behindthen0thing]

Originally Posted by Lotus99

Thanks for sharing, but I'm not clear what your point is / advice is for me?

He's telling you to drive the car and it will get better

[Lotus99]

Originally Posted by behindthen0thing

He's telling you to drive the car and it will get better

Thx. That's what I presumed... I guess I'll know in a week or two, and will report back.

I'm curious if by looking at my pictures JoeFromPA would say whether his were as bad as mine ever... Especially the rotor in the second picture.

[behindthen0thing]

I don't see why it wouldn't get better. The brake pads will scrub down the rotor to new clean metal. Pretty sure you're looking at mild surface corrosion on the rotor which has no measurable depth.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by Lotus99

Thx. That's what I presumed... I guess I'll know in a week or two, and will report back.

I'm curious if by looking at my pictures JoeFromPA would say whether his were as bad as mine ever... Especially the rotor in the second picture.

I'm telling you I have 70k miles of driving my vehicle in worse conditions than yours and my rotors have looked worse than that. And with heavy driving and braking cycles they return to normal just fine. AND that even with those conditions, my brakes are all original at 70k miles and have given me great service.

So yes, BMW is telling you it's normal. I'm telling you it's normal. I'd also recommend going out and doing more hard braking.

What's not normal is that you got so stuck you had to give it lots of gas and your tires are spinning. So I asked about whether you were in a traction compromised situation (i.e. cold summer tires on wet surface). That would explain a lot.

[Mark'sM3]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

I've daily driven my car for 5.5 years including now it's 6th PA winter. First off it's doing fantastic, but second let's talk about what you described.

Yes, if you park your car after it's heavily wetted the pads will stick to the rotors. I can't tell you how many times I've pulled out of the garage with a loud POP from them coming unstuck. It's normal and a function of our pad material, rotor material, and having them kept very close to each other by design.

I've had them get stuck maybe 2-3x where it requires me actually to put it in gear and give it meaningful throttle to unstick it. My tires have NEVER spun or anything like that. That seems insane to me unless you were running summer tires and they were 20 degrees and the floor was wet underneath or some similar set of conditions.

Regardless, in all cases simply by driving the car normally and braking heavily it's totally returned to normal with no lasting effects. Every single time.

And my car now has >70k miles on it on ALL original brake pads and rotors. They've never been touched.

Quote for truth. I've got both a 997.1 911TT and F80 M3 parked outside and when one sits for awhile I definitely have to give it some revs for the brake pads to cut loose (especially if has been raining/snowing). No spinning of my tires at all...weird to hear about that.

[Lotus99]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

I'm telling you I have 70k miles of driving my vehicle in worse conditions than yours and my rotors have looked worse than that. And with heavy driving and braking cycles they return to normal just fine. AND that even with those conditions, my brakes are all original at 70k miles and have given me great service.

So yes, BMW is telling you it's normal. I'm telling you it's normal. I'd also recommend going out and doing more hard braking.

What's not normal is that you got so stuck you had to give it lots of gas and your tires are spinning. So I asked about whether you were in a traction compromised situation (i.e. cold summer tires on wet surface). That would explain a lot.

Gotcha. Thanks for explaining. That's good to hear. To answer your last question, I have winter tires on my car. If traction control had been off, I don't doubt it would have been a burnout!

Sounds like after each of those events, you just did normal driving at it went away? How many miles, would you say? Or did you go out and try to scrub it off intentionally? I've done 3 bedding in attempts so far and the vibrations are gone at least, and the top one is much better looking. The second one with the half inch of solid rust has barely changed.

Someone gave me some advice also about using Scotch brite red pads or 220 fine sandpaper to get the rust off, which I might try if in a few weeks when I take off my winter tires. Thoughts? Overkill?

[canukgtp]

I agree with what everybody has said, drive the car and it should clear up as you use the brakes...one thing you may want to consider is getting the dealer to do a clean and maintenance service each spring to avoid having any moving pieces seize up on you. I burned up a set of pads on my 328 touring because the caliper jammed with some corrosion, so only 1 side was being pushed against the rotor.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by Lotus99

Gotcha. Thanks for explaining. That's good to hear. To answer your last question, I have winter tires on my car. If traction control had been off, I don't doubt it would have been a burnout!

Sounds like after each of those events, you just did normal driving at it went away? How many miles, would you say? Or did you go out and try to scrub it off intentionally? I've done 3 bedding in attempts so far and the vibrations are gone at least, and the top one is much better looking. The second one with the half inch of solid rust has barely changed.

Someone gave me some advice also about using Scotch brite red pads or 220 fine sandpaper to get the rust off, which I might try if in a few weeks when I take off my winter tires. Thoughts? Overkill?

Ok so this is just me but that surface rust needs some real braking. When you are bedding in, are you smelling the brakes when you are done? Our stock brakes are simply incredible street brakes. They are even great track brakes with just fluid changes and sometime pads. What I mean by that is it's hard to get them REALLY hot.

I can tell you that every picture you've shown looks identical to my brakes every day.....except that 1/2" of rust around the bottom of the rotor face. I can't say I've seen that - I'll check today as I'm driving in the wet today.

I would be inclined to do something potentially stupid - which is to find a warm day out, some clear roads, and get my brakes hot like they'd be on the track. And if that didn't solve all my issues, only then would I begin removing wheels and working directly on the braking components.

[behindthen0thing]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Ok so this is just me but that surface rust needs some real braking. When you are bedding in, are you smelling the brakes when you are done? Our stock brakes are simply incredible street brakes. They are even great track brakes with just fluid changes and sometime pads. What I mean by that is it's hard to get them REALLY hot.

I can tell you that every picture you've shown looks identical to my brakes every day.....except that 1/2" of rust around the bottom of the rotor face. I can't say I've seen that - I'll check today as I'm driving in the wet today.

I would be inclined to do something potentially stupid - which is to find a warm day out, some clear roads, and get my brakes hot like they'd be on the track. And if that didn't solve all my issues, only then would I begin removing wheels and working directly on the braking components.

+1000

[Lotus99]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Ok so this is just me but that surface rust needs some real braking. When you are bedding in, are you smelling the brakes when you are done? Our stock brakes are simply incredible street brakes. They are even great track brakes with just fluid changes and sometime pads. What I mean by that is it's hard to get them REALLY hot.

I can tell you that every picture you've shown looks identical to my brakes every day.....except that 1/2" of rust around the bottom of the rotor face. I can't say I've seen that - I'll check today as I'm driving in the wet today.

I would be inclined to do something potentially stupid - which is to find a warm day out, some clear roads, and get my brakes hot like they'd be on the track. And if that didn't solve all my issues, only then would I begin removing wheels and working directly on the braking components.

I know how to do a proper bed in. I do 10 hard stops from 60 miles an hour down to 10, back to back, then give it five minutes to cool down by driving without using the brakes, and repeat.

It is definitely improving and the vibrations are gone, but that rust strip along the bottom is still there, though it is slowly disappearing. So I’m hopeful this will all disappear over time.

I only drive this car like 6000 miles a year, so it doesn’t get a lot of miles each month. In a couple of weeks when I takeoff the winter wheels, I’ll see as you say how it looks and whether it’s worth manually sanding anything.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by Lotus99

I know how to do a proper bed in. I do 10 hard stops from 60 miles an hour down to 10, back to back, then give it five minutes to cool down by driving without using the brakes, and repeat.

It is definitely improving and the vibrations are gone, but that rust strip along the bottom is still there, though it is slowly disappearing. So I’m hopeful this will all disappear over time.

I only drive this car like 6000 miles a year, so it doesn’t get a lot of miles each month. In a couple of weeks when I takeoff the winter wheels, I’ll see as you say how it looks and whether it’s worth manually sanding anything.

Just remember manual sanding will mean it'll come back

[Lotus99]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Just remember manual sanding will mean it'll come back

Oh, didn’t know that! How come? and do you mean heavy rust like now? Because overnight rust when parked outside and it is raining was common, but it would go away after my commute.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by Lotus99

Oh, didn’t know that! How come? and do you mean heavy rust like now? Because overnight rust when parked outside and it is raining was common, but it would go away after my commute.

I mean if you are going to sand off surface rust and then expose it to the same conditions again, it'll come back. The only way to prevent it from coming back is to treat the surface of the rotor which is not a good idea.