M3/M4 vs W205 C63 AMG

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by tallshortguy

That 4 cylinder is actually a bad example imo because of the numerous people citing the seemingly significant lag associated with it. I really have no problem with high performance 4's at all but if you're going to turbocharge the hell out of it like AMG did they should have done it right and minimized lag.

I know a few people that own them. I've heard no complaints about excessive lag. There's going to be some because it's using a lot of boost.

Originally Posted by myzmak

My worry with AMG is that they are prone to excessive engineering instead of obsessive. There is a difference.

Think SLS Black - a ridiculous car that is nearly impossible for any normal driver to control. Great car? Sure.

Put another way: the S63 is insanely fast. Would I rather drive an S63 or a Golf GTI? If for fun, the latter.

As others have mentioned, you were thinking of the standard, older iteration of the SLS. The SLS Black is incredible. I've driven one and was very, very impressed.

I would rather drive the S63. But that's just personal preference. It is without a doubt easier to master driving cars down on power because the chassis outclasses the engine. And there can be some fun in that, indeed.

Also, someone made an excellent point about MB AMG's innovative/technological success in F1 this year. If that tech starts to trickle down at all, fans of the road cars should be excited.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by elitex

Wow, extremely biased opinions on both sides!

Here's my take. I've walked into a MB dealership every time I was ready for a change. Driven C63 2 and 4 door, E63 old and E63s new.
They are nice cars and very nicely built, no doubt. I just don't like their interiors.

I've almost pulled the trigger on C63 twice but ended up backing out. I almost pulled the trigger the third time around for the edition 507. Some of the things that pushed me away was.

1-No DCT!!!!!
2- terrible gas mileage
3- tiny wheels and tires
4- feels like a typical c class when you're just puttering around, I am sure an exhaust would fix that.
5- softer than the M3
6- didn't like the infotainment system

With all this said, I am looking forward to the TTV8 in the new C63. Maybe I'll convert this time around.

I think your opinion is definitely reasonable but things like the interior, the infotainment system, and the tiny wheels (18" or 19" . . . that's pretty standard as far as wheels go, no?) are either subjective or easily correctable. That car will fit 275s in the rear without rubbing and that's plenty (if not too much) rubber in the back.

And I'm not biased at all. I had 6 BMWs in 6 years prior to opting for a change. I felt the LCI C63 I drove back-to-back against an E92 M3 had better steering feel and a firmer ride. So I didn't think it was "softer" than the M3 at all.

I do agree that the DCT is quicker, especially in M mode. In fact, I think the DCT is one of the best road car transmissions out there today. I just thought the MCT was a little less clunky in the more reserved automatic modes.

I also felt that the M3 was clearly the lighter car. It wouldn't snap back with as much violence after stepping the rear out. That was confidence inspiring.

Believe me, it was a tough decision. But I will fully consider both the F80 M3 and the W205 when it comes time. The M3 has everything I'd want from dual threat daily/track-capable touring car. The only question mark is the sound, but that is correctable (Akrapovic).

[M3guy3]

Originally Posted by elitex

Best sounding V8 ever? Hardly. It's good but it's not that good.

that C63 AMG 507 is the boss.

[M3guy3]

Originally Posted by myzmak

That is what is wrong with AMG. You don't need 8 cylinders. That is lazy and boring. You need obsessive engineering. That is genius.

whatever you wanna think. these AMG V8s are loved by many people. its proven.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by M3guy3

whatever you wanna think. these AMG V8s are loved by many people. its proven.

oh for the love of.........

I know many people love their AMG V8s. Know how I know that? (and, shhhh....this is a secret but.....) Because people buy them. Lots of them. And then they join forums like this. And talk about them. And how much they love them. And journalists review them. And love them. And all of that information is really easy to find out.

And that is all great. People are welcome to love them. They are (as I've said) great cars.

BUT (if you actually read the whole thread) my point was that I am more impressed with the manufacturing philosophy that says "wring what you can out of less and make it great". Take something ordinary (a 3 series or an engine with smaller displacement) and make a heart stoppingly great ride.

I don't think that is the AMG way. The AMG way is fine for what it is ("lets take something really big and make it bigger and more monstrous and powerful") and yes many people like it (see above) and yes it makes great cars, but I prefer other ways for my dinero (even acknowledging, as I said, I maintain a bit of regret that I didnt get the E63 wagon....but as it is my wife's daily driver/child-ferrying taxi, the need for a 500+ hp car to drive the kids the 20 blocks to school might have been overkill....maybe....though it would have been all kinds of fun in other circumstances).

So, in conclusion, great cars, not the philosophy I would follow the farthest.

That is all.

[elitex]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

I think your opinion is definitely reasonable but things like the interior, the infotainment system, and the tiny wheels (18" or 19" . . . that's pretty standard as far as wheels go, no?) are either subjective or easily correctable. That car will fit 275s in the rear without rubbing and that's plenty (if not too much) rubber in the back.

And I'm not biased at all. I had 6 BMWs in 6 years prior to opting for a change. I felt the LCI C63 I drove back-to-back against an E92 M3 had better steering feel and a firmer ride. So I didn't think it was "softer" than the M3 at all.

I do agree that the DCT is quicker, especially in M mode. In fact, I think the DCT is one of the best road car transmissions out there today. I just thought the MCT was a little less clunky in the more reserved automatic modes.

I also felt that the M3 was clearly the lighter car. It wouldn't snap back with as much violence after stepping the rear out. That was confidence inspiring.

Believe me, it was a tough decision. But I will fully consider both the F80 M3 and the W205 when it comes time. The M3 has everything I'd want from dual threat daily/track-capable touring car. The only question mark is the sound, but that is correctable (Akrapovic).

Wait, you thought that a C63 had better steering and a firmer ride than an E92? i must be going crazy.

Go to 5:40. It's a great car but it's made a little softer. M3 is the sportier car and that's how I felt when I drove both of them.

[bimmerj]

Originally Posted by elitex

Wait, you thought that a C63 had better steering and a firmer ride than an E92? i must be going crazy.

Go to 5:40. It's a great car but it's made a little softer. M3 is the sportier car and that's how I felt when I drove both of them.

The C63 has a better steering feel than the E9X. As for track performance on, highly technical tracks the E92 is faster and not so technical tracks the LCI C63 is faster.

[bimmerj]

Originally Posted by myzmak

My worry with AMG is that they are prone to excessive engineering instead of obsessive. There is a difference.

Think SLS Black - a ridiculous car that is nearly impossible for any normal driver to control. Great car? Sure.

....but (as a normal driver) I'd still take something engineered to be spectacular AND driveable - which is where (generally) M is ahead. That is the obsessive engineering that makes the 1M, possibly the M2, the M3, the M5, etc, such great cars.

When AMG tries to go simple and driveable, it doesnt quite work (see CLA, see A45, etc). They are better at building monster cars than they are precise and refined.

Not to say M doesn't have its problems. The M5 (though beautiful) may be a bit of a chunky-monkey.

....and, as my posts were originally on the "4 cylinder M3??" thread (and got moved over here) my original point was that I think there can be more fun in driving a smaller engine at its max than a large engine. That is why a proper hot hatch can be at least as smile-inducing (if not more) than a large engined beast. Put another way: the S63 is insanely fast. Would I rather drive an S63 or a Golf GTI? If for fun, the latter.

First I was a bit surprised about how out of touch you are, then I saw the word Golf in your post and things became as clear as mud.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by bimmerj

First I was a bit surprised about how out of touch you are, then I saw the word Golf in your post and things became as clear as mud.

Is it after midnight and am I permitted to feed you?

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by elitex

Wait, you thought that a C63 had better steering and a firmer ride than an E92? i must be going crazy.

Go to 5:40. It's a great car but it's made a little softer. M3 is the sportier car and that's how I felt when I drove both of them.

I definitely thought that. And I was close to buying the E92.

You unfortunately found the most obscure (and most negative) video review I've ever seen for the LCI C63 haha. I don't think you were trying on purpose but I had to do some digging to find that one.

I've never heard of those guys. The test driver made me lose it laughing when he said he didn't think he could get oversteer out of the car. He clearly was not familiar with the platform.

Try this review:

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by bimmerj

The C63 has a better steering feel than the E9X. As for track performance on, highly technical tracks the E92 is faster and not so technical tracks the LCI C63 is faster.

Exactly. Well said.

Anyway, that review with the bearded, long-haired South African driver was not one of the best out there. It wasn't negative but there was some crazy content.

There's understeer dialed into all road cars but I wouldn't say it's anywhere close to being a predominant characteristic in the tail-happy, RWD C63.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by bimmerj

I did not join to talk about my AMGs. I have two BMWs and both better than your 328.

Yours is bigger than mine.

Got it.



Feel better now?

All the kids on the monkey bars looking at you with newfound respect?

I sure hope so otherwise some dog is gonna get kicked on your walk home.....

which reminds me:

[Lups]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Yours is bigger than mine.

Got it.



Feel better now?

All the kids on the monkey bars looking at you with newfound respect?

I sure hope so otherwise some dog is gonna get kicked on your walk home.....

You kind of nailed it there.
The stories I could share...

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Lups

You kind of nailed it there.
The stories I could share...

hahaha, thanks.

yeah, i should resist those temptations more.....but.....

[Lups]

Originally Posted by myzmak

hahaha, thanks.

yeah, i should resist those temptations more.....but.....

Nope, I never do either, it's more fun that way. If they are really mean, just call on the supergirl, and I'll have your back.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Lups

Nope, I never do either, it's more fun that way. If they are really mean, just call on the supergirl, and I'll have your back.

Hahaha - thanks.

Sadly, strangers pay me to argue on their behalf for a living, so having hurt feelings or not having sharp comebacks is never the problem....the problem is, as Kenny Rogers might say, knowing when to walk away...

[Lups]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Hahaha - thanks.

Sadly, strangers pay me to argue on their behalf for a living, so having hurt feelings or not having sharp comebacks is never the problem....the problem is, as Kenny Rogers might say, knowing when to walk away...

That's easy, only when the opposition is completely humiliated. And then you don't walk, you strut.

See, I'm useful!

I'm going to get kicked out of this forum for never being on topic. Oh well...

[bimmerj]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Yours is bigger than mine.

Got it.



Feel better now?

All the kids on the monkey bars looking at you with newfound respect?

I sure hope so otherwise some dog is gonna get kicked on your walk home.....

which reminds me:

LOL. That feeding the troll thing puts a nice twist on your rather "out of touch with reality" posts. The "Yours is bigger than mine", makes you look intelligent.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by bimmerj

LOL. That feeding the troll thing puts a nice twist on your rather "out of touch with reality" posts. The "Yours is bigger than mine", makes you look intelligent.

He has a sense of humor. Google can tell you more about that, but basically it means in this context that this is a forum, and one should have fun here instead of being a duplicate of any of my close relatives.

Let's keep it light.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Lups

Let's keep it light.

Seconded. And let's keep it on-topic as well.

We can have a thoughtful and respectful discussion of the topic without the posting of videos as accusations, name-calling, etc.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Seconded. And let's keep it on-topic as well.

We can have a thoughtful and respectful discussion of the topic without the posting of videos as accusations, name-calling, etc.

... but there is so much more to say off topic! Okay, I'll play nice. Men and their toys...

[gmd2003]

Well the new M4 already has lost a review vs the outgoing C63 AMG

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/p...s-benz-c63-amg