M3/M4 vs. Tesla Model 3 Performance

[Darth One]

Originally Posted by mbiondo

I had a model 3 come from behind me last night on the Parkway. I'd say, from my view, it looked almost as good as a Prius. Almost.

high praise

[XsltAnalyst]

I wouldn't mind picking up a cheap (sub 10K) EV but not everyone lives in a house with a garage, so it's one of the major hurdles for a good chunk of the population. I actually liked when I test drove i3 and chevy Volt.

I think for everyday driving, a something with an autopilot would be nice thing to have.

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Bruce, just curious, what's your experience level with EVs? Your post reminds me of what I used to think, before I commuted daily in an EV.

Took an S for a (fairly) short test drive last year. This was not the hot-damn model, but was still impressed with the performance. Doesn't change the basic physics, however.

Oh, yeah, a Chevy Volt, as well. Damned impressive, for the price. Yeah, I know it's not a true EV.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

Took an S for a (fairly) short test drive last year. This was not the hot-damn model, but was still impressed with the performance. Doesn't change the basic physics, however.

Oh, yeah, a Chevy Volt, as well. Damned impressive, for the price. Yeah, I know it's not a true EV.

Gotta try the P100D. It feels like it repeals physics of heavy cars the same way an E63S wagon does

Ian1973 , I can't speak for others but I'm saving $100 per month in gas and tolls, and 15 minutes a day by commuting in an EV

I could inflate the cost savings more if I were to factor in the saved tires + maintenance cost from not using my 911 for commuting

[peeej]

the model 3 got that weird tv screen in the front. hate it. i prefer the screens that are integrated into the cars

[Ian1973]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Gotta try the P100D. It feels like it repeals physics of heavy cars the same way an E63S wagon does

Ian1973 , I can't speak for others but I'm saving $100 per month in gas and tolls, and 15 minutes a day by commuting in an EV

I could inflate the cost savings more if I were to factor in the saved tires + maintenance cost from not using my 911 for commuting

Are you plugging in at home or at work or something?

Well yeah a 911, but you could have something like a Prius or even a Civic, Mazda3 or Corolla. How much would it save you then? Where does the time savings go? Are you in an area that allows you a different lane?

While I have to drive an obscene amount right now for work, I'm thankful I am not in a city.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Ian1973

Are you plugging in at home or at work or something?

Well yeah a 911, but you could have something like a Prius or even a Civic, Mazda3 or Corolla. How much would it save you then? Where does the time savings go? Are you in an area that allows you a different lane?

While I have to drive an obscene amount right now for work, I'm thankful I am not in a city.

Yes, I pay $0.125/kWh at my home to recharge and can use a carpool lane for part of my drive.

My spark ev was a $12k used car with 1.6k miles on the odo. And it has 327ftlb of torque. There's pretty much no way I would take any of the cars you suggested in its place. It's super fun to drive as well

The best combo (I'm biased) is a gas sports car for fun and an EV for commuting. Ev replacing gas is hard. Ev added to existing setup is the way to go for now, until the affordable EV are 3000lb with 800ftlb of torque

[hellrotm]

R&T has a track review of the Model 3 Performance. Quick summary, it isn’t a track car. One lap of 1.5mile Lime Rock uses about 9 miles of battery life. Full power lasts 3 to 4 laps, before it starts gradually cutting power due to heat. Looks like the M3 has a number of years ahead at remaining one of the best options for dual purpose weekend track car.

[BluM4]

I just test drove my friend's Model 3 performance and it blew my mind. If I am not waiting for the Porsche Taycan, I will trade my M4 to get the M3P.

Btw, I don't track and my commute is about 100 miles per day. With the HOV sticker, it can be the perfect car for me.

[IS350]

Originally Posted by BluM4

I just test drove my friend's Model 3 performance and it blew my mind. If I am not waiting for the Porsche Taycan, I will trade my M4 to get the M3P.

Btw, I don't track and my commute is about 100 miles per day. With the HOV sticker, it can be the perfect car for me.

I'm also considering that Taycan. Did you feel the Tesla was solid in the corners? I know it can't compete with the M3/M4, regarding turns, but, still impressed. What was your friend's previous ride?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

R&T has a track review of the Model 3 Performance. Quick summary, it isn’t a track car. One lap of 1.5mile Lime Rock uses about 9 miles of battery life. Full power lasts 3 to 4 laps, before it starts gradually cutting power due to heat. Looks like the M3 has a number of years ahead at remaining one of the best options for dual purpose weekend track car.

Here is the article. Thanks for flagging that it's available.

2-3 seconds reduction in overall lap time once the car gets hot is a bit disappointing but not too bad / not unexpected.

Will be interested to see how the upcoming Porsche EV handle heat

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by IS350

I'm also considering that Taycan. Did you feel the Tesla was solid in the corners? I know it can't compete with the M3/M4, regarding turns, but, still impressed. What was your friend's previous ride?

I just test drove a performance one again today and had the opportunity to take it on some corners (well Texas corners) and I was actually very very impressed with the car. It hides its weight very well, I was pleasantly surprised. Although it doesn't necessarily feel as solid as my F80 and by no means feels "sporty" inside. It lacks that M Cockpit feel our cars have. That being said, the acceleration felt completely bonkers and it did feel decently planted through a corner. Definitely recommend you test drive one.

[PK1]

I've been car shopping for a while and before I left a deposit on an M3 last week, I test drove all model S configurations (the P100D can simulate lesser configurations through software), along with the base model 3 as well as the performance variant.

The only way I can describe the acceleration of the P100D is "insane." The g-force and the blood rushing to the back of your head is actually unpleasant for a moment until you realize what hit you and start laughing out loud. It's totally insane. The base model 3 (the one that they currently make: single motor with extended battery) is surprisingly fast and more than enough for most. The Performance model is very VERY fast, not quite P100D, but VERY fast. Faster than the vast majority of IC cars out there. The instant acceleration can simply not be replicated with IC cars.

Can't talk handling much since I wasn't in an area where you could throw the car around (Dallas grid), but both cars felt very planted. I would definitely have considered and wanted a Tesla as my next car, but as much as I liked the P100D I wasn't ready to spend $145K on it ($135K base plus a few options). They also don't lease well at all, and I usually lease cars.

My opinion of the model 3 is that it is a great car for $50K or less (the base model), exactly the segment it was supposed to occupy. In that price range few cars would beat its performance and I think its quality is acceptable, but once you get up in the trims and price (dual motor or Performance) - unless acceleration or electric car is mainly what you seek - there are better options out there. The performance model will end up being around $70+K if you put the $5K option pack in it and choose any color other than black. Other than crazy acceleration and it being an electric car, it doesn't feel like a $70K car. I know the minimalist cabin design is a love or hate it thing, that aside, it simply felt cheap to me for that price point. If you are after pure acceleration, model 3 Performance can't be beat for that price point. Otherwise, not worth it to me. And oh, no leases, gotta buy it.

My opinion of course, and by virtue of the fact that they are quite a few Performance model being ordered, many others disagree with me!

[IS350]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

I just test drove a performance one again today and had the opportunity to take it on some corners (well Texas corners) and I was actually very very impressed with the car. It hides its weight very well, I was pleasantly surprised. Although it doesn't necessarily feel as solid as my F80 and by no means feels "sporty" inside. It lacks that M Cockpit feel our cars have. That being said, the acceleration felt completely bonkers and it did feel decently planted through a corner. Definitely recommend you test drive one.

Thanks. Do you think you might get one, or trade the BMW?

[IS350]

Originally Posted by PK1

I've been car shopping for a while and before I left a deposit on an M3 last week. I test drove all model S configurations (the P100D can simulate lesser configurations through software), along with the base model 3 as well as the performance variant.

The only way I can describe the acceleration of the P100D is "insane." The g-force and the blood rushing to the back of your head is actually unpleasant for a moment until you realize what hit you and start laughing out loud. It's totally insane. The base model 3 (the one that they currently make: single motor with extended battery) is surprisingly fast and more than enough for most. The Performance model is very VERY fast, not quite P100D, but VERY fast. Faster than the vast majority of IC cars out there. The instant acceleration can simply not be replicated with IC cars.

Can't talk handling much since I wasn't in an area where you could throw the car around (Dallas grid), but both cars felt very planted. I would definitely have considered and wanted a Tesla as my next car, but as much as I liked the P100D I wasn't ready to spend $145K on it ($135K base plus a few options). They also don't lease well at all, and I usually lease cars.

My opinion of the model 3 is that it is a great car for $50K or less (the base model), exactly the segment it was supposed to occupy. In that price range few cars would beat its performance and I think it's quality is acceptable, but once you get up in the trims and price (dual motor or Performance) - unless acceleration or electric car is mainly what you seek - there are better options out there. The performance model will end up being around $70+K if you put the $5K option pack in it and choose any color other than black. Other than crazy acceleration and it being an electric car, it doesn't feel like a $70K car. I know the minimalist cabin design is a love or hate it thing, that aside, it simply felt cheap to me for that price point. If you are after pure acceleration, model 3 Performance can't be beat for that price point. Otherwise, not worth it to me. And oh, no leases, gotta buy it.

My opinion of course, and by virtue of the fact that they are quite a few Performance model being ordered, many others disagree with me!

Well said! Thanks for the perspective.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by IS350

Thanks. Do you think you might get one, or trade the BMW?

I think if they start coming out with more options and don't go under in the next 2-3 years I could see myself potentially making the switch. Maybe for a DD or the wife's car.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

I think if they start coming out with more options and don't go under in the next 2-3 years I could see myself potentially making the switch. Maybe for a DD or the wife's car.

Your gonna give the wife the electric and keep the ///M3 for you?

Hahahaha

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

Your gonna give the wife the electric and keep the ///M3 for you?

Hahahaha

Haha if she wants it this years in the future so who knows.

[JMon]

So I rented a base model 3 just to see what all the fuss is about. I couldn't get my hands on the dual engine AWD version, Just the base RWD

The throttle response is just absolutely amazing! I almost can't imagine what the dual engine will be like.

I wish the tesla guys would stop calling it an M3...that is so annoying.

This base car feels faster than my M3 in real world on the street driving because of the raw immediacy of power.

The sound system is better than the M3 HC.... and it drives pretty well.

The interior is ????? There is wind noise but no other creaking like my M3. And the seats are hot for some reason. (No, the Seat heater is not on)

[Thescout13]

Your thoughts are consistent with the rest of ours

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

Your gonna give the wife the electric and keep the ///M3 for you?

Hahahaha

I've been trying to ask my wife to take over my cars for a while, and it hasn't worked. Apparently there's such as thing as "too much power"? WTF

Most recently I asked about model 3 "performance" and she'd rather have a used i3 because "the Giga interior is cooler looking"... WTF x2

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Here is the article. Thanks for flagging that it's available.

2-3 seconds reduction in overall lap time once the car gets hot is a bit disappointing but not too bad / not unexpected.

Will be interested to see how the upcoming Porsche EV handle heat

The power reduction after a few laps is concerning but expected. More concerning is how fast it goes through battery. They said max 30 laps of VIR 1.5mile track. They were given two cars to perform tests and depleted both of them at the end of the morning. This is a no go for track days, there are not superchargers to go plug into between sessions. Personally think we are at least another generation, maybe two generations from electric cars being viable consumer track/daily drivers. It most likely will have to be solid state battery tech to get electric cars to that point. They are very quick on the street.