Top Gear tests an M3 vs. a Model 3 Performance at Thunderhill

[valve float]

Moderator: Video Added (Thanks to CanAutM3 and Mo@BMWofFairfax for posting) -

[Ras550]

TL;DR: The 3P beats the M3 by two full seconds around the track.

[ZCD1]

Fulfilling Elon’s promise. Nice.

[Jmm_22]

Just saw that. It really is impressive how good these cars have gotten in the last decade. Yes, gas motors sound great, but the performance ceiling is higher for electric (rimac, tesla roadster, etc.)

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Jmm_22

Just saw that. It really is impressive how good these cars have gotten in the last decade. Yes, gas motors sound great, but the performance ceiling is higher for electric (rimac, tesla roadster, etc.)

The sustain of EVs is still not great though. You can take a cheapo spec Miata and do enduros but that’s not happening with EVs yet for a while

I’ve tracked my model 3 and it was fun but I wanted to be transparent that is not the ideal use case for the car. Stick with f80 if you want a “dual use” car, and plan for gas competition or sports car on top of your EV if you’re a track addict

[Moo]

Originally Posted by Ras550

TL;DR: The 3P beats the M3 by two full seconds around the track.

But can TM3P do it more than once every 2 hrs?!

[m630]

Saw the story yesterday. Doesnt really matter if its base vs comp lets be real....if this thing is merely competing with an M3 its a real problem for bmw

[Clark_Kent]

Originally Posted by m630

Saw the story yesterday. Doesnt really matter if its base vs comp lets be real....if this thing is merely competing with an M3 its a real problem for bmw

I couldn't disagree more. The core supporters of the M cars are not worried about Tesla and their electric cars. If you're into cheap thrills (i.e. racing people from stop light to stop light) then the Model 3 may be of interest to you. Furthermore, if one is interested in a proper performance vehicle, the Model 3 won't even be in your consideration set.

[m630]

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

I couldn't disagree more. The core supporters of the M cars are not worried about Tesla and their electric cars. If you're into cheap thrills (i.e. racing people from stop light to stop light) then the Model 3 may be of interest to you. Furthermore, if one is interested in a proper performance vehicle, the Model 3 won't even be in your consideration set.

Im not comparing it or saying I would take it over my previous F80, thats not the discussion. I think one has to consider the reality that the percentage of hardcore owners of M cars is quite small and if a startup electric car can compete both on track and the road with the M3, thats an issue as ultimately the non hardcore M fans will move to what may be claimed to be as fast and perhaps more enjoyable(on daily drives due to the instant torque) than an M3, especially the younger generations on the green kick. That could be big trouble to bmws ability to keep the M3 with an ICE....

[phantomF80]

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

I couldn't disagree more. The core supporters of the M cars are not worried about Tesla and their electric cars. If you're into cheap thrills (i.e. racing people from stop light to stop light) then the Model 3 may be of interest to you. Furthermore, if one is interested in a proper performance vehicle, the Model 3 won't even be in your consideration set.

What's consider proper performance vehicle though? You definitely don't get nice engine sound and mechanical feel of a manual transmission, but there are many pluses of an electric drivetrain. Specifically, instant response and the amount of torque when compared to today's turbo cars with 7+ gears transmissions. I do think endurance will be solved in the near future, so the main drawbacks with electric will be sound.

BTW, I had a F80 and now a Model 3. So I am one of those converted.

[MPBK]

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

I couldn't disagree more. The core supporters of the M cars are not worried about Tesla and their electric cars. If you're into cheap thrills (i.e. racing people from stop light to stop light) then the Model 3 may be of interest to you. Furthermore, if one is interested in a proper performance vehicle, the Model 3 won't even be in your consideration set.

The problem with your argument is that the Tesla beat the M3 in a proper race track, not a drag strip.

[Haywood]

Originally Posted by MPBK

The problem with your argument is that the Tesla beat the M3 in a proper race track, not a drag strip.

That's the 'holy shit' point for me. That's why I wanted to see the full details. We all know about the instant torque off the line, but the larger Tesla has always be known as a heavy pig that doesn't handle very well. I still think the major manufactures will win in the end. But, if the Model 3 out performs the gold standard of sports coupes, that's a huge statement for Tesla.

[Clark_Kent]

Originally Posted by MPBK

The problem with your argument is that the Tesla beat the M3 in a proper race track, not a drag strip.

No, my argument is very sound. I would like to see how it performs after a 20 minute lapping session at VIR, Road Atlanta, Button Willow or (insert your favorite track).

[David70]

Normally the case is auto manufacturers and magazines want to run the numbers and pick a winner only based on this. I would like to own an old 911, likely a new Accord would beat it. For a lot of the same reasons as this comparison I would still prefer to own the M3.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

No, my argument is very sound. I would like to see how it performs after a 20 minute lapping session at VIR, Road Atlanta, Button Willow or (insert your favorite track).

Oh - you mean like less than 10% of consumers of M cars will actually do?



For those very few folks, your argument is probably valid, but for the vast bulk of consumers who buy the M3, it is merely a status symbol and nothing more. There is zero chance it will ever see a race track and will do exactly what you state in your first post - accelerate quickly from stop light to stop light.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

No, my argument is very sound. I would like to see how it performs after a 20 minute lapping session at VIR, Road Atlanta, Button Willow or (insert your favorite track).

We've had a few Tesla 3s show up at Buttonwillow at our events. They hold their own and then some.

The issues of "range" isn't as blown-out as it seems, the Tesla 3 Performance that shows up can do 2 solid 25 minute sessions at full speed, then take off at lunch to go charge at the local supercharger station for an hour, and be back to finish up the day. The only inconvenience is there's no electrical charge station on site, so unlike other M3 owners that show up at our events, they have to leave the facilities to "charge."

They're every bit as fast, if not faster, than the M3s. The only thing is they're not nearly that common amongst enthusiasts, and they're not out for decades like the gasoline BMWs are, so you don't see them that often. In the last 3 years I've only seen 2 model 3s at track, one at Laguna, one at Buttonwillow. And you're definitely limited on where you CAN go, both Laguna and Buttonwillow has supercharging stations near by. Chuckwalla? Good luck.

There are limitations. But owning a model 3 does not preclude you from enjoying speed at track. Far from it. Anyone with a Performance model SHOULD take it to the local track for sure.

Also a "lightly modded" model 3 performance decimated global time attack at Buttonwillow:

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by The HACK

We've had a few Tesla 3s show up at our events. They hold their own and then some. They're every bit as fast, if not faster, than the M3s.

Indeed.

Interesting seeing the attempts to move the goal posts by some - previously, a lap time was enough.

Now that the Tesla has that covered, it has to run a "race-length" competition to prove....what? These aren't racecars - they're streetcars that can be tracked.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

Indeed.

Interesting seeing the attempts to move the goal posts by some - previously, a lap time was enough.

Now that the Tesla has that covered, it has to run a "race-length" competition to prove....what? These aren't racecars - they're streetcars that can be tracked.

Enduros and Nurburgring time. These electric cars can't lay down a good 'Ring time because the battery drains increase exponentially at higher speeds, speeds in excess of 100 mph.

That's the next goal post.

[Soterios]

Originally Posted by Run Silent

Oh - you mean like less than 10% of consumers of M cars will actually do?



For those very few folks, your argument is probably valid, but for the vast bulk of consumers who buy the M3, it is merely a status symbol and nothing more. There is zero chance it will ever see a race track and will do exactly what you state in your first post - accelerate quickly from stop light to stop light.

10% is being very generous. I bet it's closer to a tenth of a percent. If that.

For most drivers, stop light to stop light is the only performance metric they'll ever use, even if they pretend they bought a car for the other characteristics.

[cfm56d7b]

There is much more to comparing vehicles than asking electric motor to compete with gasoline engine and narrowing the comparison to two metrics: top speed and acceleration.

Not an exhaustive list: suspension behavior under various conditions, brakes, driver ergonomics, parts availability after the accident ...

Tesla Model 3 isn't there yet ...

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

There is much more to comparing vehicles than asking electric motor to compete with gasoline engine and narrowing the comparison to two metrics: top speed and acceleration.

Not an exhaustive list: suspension behavior under various conditions, brakes, driver ergonomics, parts availability after the accident ...

Tesla Model 3 isn't there yet ...

Perhaps for you and a very select other few it isn't, but for the vast majority of the buying public who purchase these automobiles it certainly is.

[Red Bread]

It is amusing to see the total failure of the “Yeah But...” arguments against Tesla.