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      07-27-2017, 11:48 AM   #1
nycaudioma2
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Around town, M4 feels slower than 330 Loaner?

I know this post will elicit some harsh flaming, but it is about psychology and so I actually look forward to the responses. I recently brought my M4 in for the 1200 mile service and was given a 330 loaner. As you may know, that engine is a tiny 4-cylinder.

But surprisingly, in some way, around town it felt faster than my M4. I am not by any means saying it is objectively faster - it is not obviously - but by seat of the pants and effort level to get up to around-town speed it was snappy in a way the M4 does not feel.

Since the 330 is not faster objectively by any means, I have some theories here:

1. The 330 feels faster because it is super quiet. The power just comes on unexpectedly from 0 up to 30/40 MPH. Sounds and feels effortless.

2. The automatic transmission crawl that starts when you lift your foot off the brake (compared to the DCT not being engaged) gives an impression of the car pulling forward earlier.

3. The M4 transmission gearing or settings (I am usually in Sport with the transmission in the middle setting) affects the feel.

Again, feedback is most appreciated, especially from anyone else who had the odd feeling of getting in a 330 loaner and saying "this feels zippy."
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      07-27-2017, 12:25 PM   #2
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Likely 100% transmission difference when driving 5/10s and below. The torque converter slips into optimal torque while the DCT locks up and then pull cleanly through the gears. I.e DCT require a bit more effort to be in the right gear to get the wow experience something that most don't do when you are not trying to go fast. And the DCT feels even more sluggish from standstill when you aren't aggressive. Are you relatively new to the DCT? If so this will likely go away once you become more in tune with it's behavior and instinctively drop into a more aggressive gear and modulate the loud pedal in every type of driving to make the gap to a 330 feel as big as it is.

Last edited by solstice; 07-27-2017 at 12:30 PM..
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      07-27-2017, 12:32 PM   #3
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Change driving mode to Sport+ and report back. And remember to hold on to the steering.
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      07-27-2017, 12:37 PM   #4
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It could be a weight thing too. The 330 is lighter up front (not overall I do not believe) due to the smaller engine which gives the illusion it is light and nimble pulling hard (especially when adding the quietness and lack of DCT).
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      07-27-2017, 12:38 PM   #5
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Maybe it's got something to do with the front end lift under load because of softer suspension? I think that may also contribute to that feeling of being pushed back more. Just a guess
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      07-27-2017, 12:44 PM   #6
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I honestly feel like the 330 just feels faster around the city because of psychology. It is a very different experience in both cars so everyone might feel a major difference when shifting from one to another. i've also noticed some things
- The F8x's doesn't roll when you lift off the throttle while the f3x's do, therefore *imo* gives an impression of a more nimble vehicle.
- The 330 feels softer to drive and it slightly feels smaller than the F8x's

In my experience, i feel that it might be the F8x DCT being a little more jerky in traffic while the 330 has smooth low end and it rolls just by lifting off the throttle. But all in all the F8x's do feel alot slower in traffic, but not at all during highway driving
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      07-27-2017, 12:49 PM   #7
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I totally agree. My buddy bought his 2016 328i the same day i bought my 2016 M4. Around town his does feel zippier. Sometimes leaving work just jumping from a red light he can get a lead on me (for a second or 2). But.. its still night and day. His is bouncy and floaty, mine is solid and agressive. And freeway driving, i like looking at his headlights behind me. You are right though, the 330i is light and sprinty around town. We have beasts with almost double the hp. It takes a little more work to tame the beast in city sprinting.
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      07-27-2017, 12:49 PM   #8
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I could almost understand if M throttle was in efficient but hard to imagine if throttle in Sport. Maybe wearing heavier shoes in the 330?
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      07-27-2017, 12:49 PM   #9
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Loaner/rental cars always feel fast, especially with full insurance coverage.
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      07-27-2017, 12:56 PM   #10
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      07-27-2017, 01:06 PM   #11
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One thing that I also noticed is that DSC seems to intervene quite a lot when accelerating from a standstill and probably also adds to the impression of it being slower.

I know of some very particular situations where if you run with DSC on (or even MDM on), that my M4 is slower from a stop than my former 435d.

One such situation is when you try to accelerate from a standstill in a tight turn.
Even with MDM mode on, the power is significantly limited, until the car is straight...
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      07-27-2017, 01:14 PM   #12
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My m4 is absolutely slower than my older 335 xDrive in 1st gear.
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      07-27-2017, 02:25 PM   #13
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I don't have those issues driving around town with the MT, it zips around town
very nicely.
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      07-27-2017, 02:30 PM   #14
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I feel the same way driving my wife's Forester XT. It has a CVT transmission and twin-scroll turbo which makes is zippy as hell when it first gets going.

But I drive a 6MT so everything on the planet is going to feel faster in 1st gear than my M4
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      07-27-2017, 02:33 PM   #15
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For me, it definitely comes down to how I drive the car. When I'm in my manual transmission M3 (or any of my MT Ms), I modulate the clutch carefully and don't try to go very fast. Part of that is not wanting to seem like a jerk in my M car, part is that it's hard to not go all out when you start trying to go a bit fast (then it's jerk + speeding ticket ). However, it a automatic 330, like most people I don't even think about it. I press the accelerator and off I go, definitely faster than I would be going in my M3. Now, if I'm trying in my M3...no way.
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      07-27-2017, 02:39 PM   #16
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I had a 420d loaner the other month, I thought this is nippy (whilst driving round town) really smooth and quick step off with the ZF8.

Then I hit the open road and tried to overtake a line of cars from 60mph....errrrr and nothing!
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      07-27-2017, 03:33 PM   #17
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I'll buy the tranny differences, but also bet you drive it differently. I've had 330 loaners too, and you get used to giving it way more throttle off the line. If I gave my M that much throttle it would light up the tires - so think you get used to driving more smoothly in the M.

Also, if you're driving the 330 in auto mode, the tranny will pick the best gear for you. In MT mode in the M, if you're just cruising you're probably in a taller gear than optimal for acceleration.

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      07-27-2017, 03:35 PM   #18
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In Sport throttle and D2, the car is likely starting in gear 2 unless you really punch it....at least that's my theory.

I drive mine around town most of the time in Sport + and D3...traction management is the only challenge, so many get a jump off the line for the first 10-15 feet and then I'm gone once my rear tires pass the painted stripe.
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      07-27-2017, 04:22 PM   #19
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Torque converter cars always feel quicker off the line to me than directly connected clutch transmissions.
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      07-27-2017, 05:54 PM   #20
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I got a 330i loaner and I can say that it doesn't feel fast....at all.
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      07-27-2017, 07:20 PM   #21
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I had this same feeling with my friend's 330 and also an A3 I borrowed recently. I think a big part of it is you can really open it up WOT and zip around city streets and it feels "faster" because there's much more "usable" power at lower speed but that illusion will wear off very quickly once you have a chance to get on some real roads.
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      07-27-2017, 07:34 PM   #22
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Coming from a 435i to a 535i to an M4 ..435 was quick but I don't know wtf!!! Anyone here is talking about. That M4 when you say let's see how much balls you have will make the 435 feel like a smart car..
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