M2C vs M4C as track toy

[BulkBen]

Hi forum members,

Great to see the Motorsport section so active and masses of knowledge in here. I’m a BMW owner from the southern most part of Australia (Tasmania) and would appreciate some advice on whats very much a first world problem im facing.

I currently own a big turbo X3m40i which is a daily driver and a baby BMW, Mini Cooper S (F56) which has the B48. The latter is being built into a reasonably serious track car, running big brakes, coilovers, track tyres, 17x9’s (huge for a mini) and big turbo conversion.

I’ve recently sold an Alfa Romeo 4C, so am yearning to fill that gap. The 4C was a stunning car, very ordinary on the road but much better on the track.
Motivation to sell was wanting a change, but also due to the fact it’s a very costly car to get more performance out of given the 1.7l motor.

My goal over the indefinite future is to own a series of third cars (BMWs, Porsche, Merc etc), which I’ll likely only hang onto for 12-18 months, before going onto something else.

Goal is for them to retain reasonable road manners, but challenge myself with how far I can improve them through a series of cost effective mods for the track. Track days would be once every month or two.

Think race pads, fluid, track wheels & tyres, engine tune, camber and castor as opposed to 10 point roll cages, big brake conversions and built motors.

The plan at the end would be to sell off track wheels and tyres, then otherwise sell a car which was lightly modded.

Anyway, is there a significant benefit to choosing either an M2C or M4?

I’m looking at used options, in Australia an M4 base comes in cheapest, with a used M2C and M4C being similarly priced.
Purchase price isn’t really an issue though. I’d far prefer to spend more first up on a low kn car, then less on mods, as money sunk in mods is rarely returned when selling the car.

It seems clear that the competition differences to the M4 can be programmed in, obviously with an M2 the competition model is vital if I want the S55 (which I def do).

The M2C’s get through bigger brakes, but it also means they’re limited to the 19 inch wheel. Other major difference seems to be front tyre size, both can run a 305 rear, while the M4 can run up to this wide up front at a stretch, seems the M2 is limited to a 265 or 275, so that’s a decent negative for the M2.

Finally, I really love the look of both of them, so it’s not a case of picking the one which I find nicer to look at.
Style wise, I’d ever so slightly lean towards the M2, but the M4 is a little less common at the track in Aus, so that evens it out as I prefer to have something more unique there.
I’d ultimately prioritise speed over fun, however if both cars equally modded have the same capabilities, then the more enjoyable car to drive would be a factor.

[Suds]

I’ve got both, a 2019 M4c with camber plates otherwise stock other than Nitto NT01’s 275/35/18 F and 305/35/18 R.
The 2019 M2c, is a half cage, seats, Nitron 3 way shocks, APRacing big brakes and a bunch of other mods. Also RE71 275/35/18 tires, square set on 513m rear wheels.
Both are BM3 stage 1 tuned.

The M4 is really good on a road course, very competitive yet comfortable on street.
The M2 feels much smaller on the track, it is really easy to catch when it starts to step out and also easy to drive fast.
If I were going for a track car, it would be a M2c.

The M4 is going back to DD and road trip duty, the M2 will now be the dedicated tract car.

So the M2c was easily 2+ seconds faster than my M4c and my Corvette Z06/Z07 my first time out.

“All things not equal on the same track.”

Also, both cars have the same camber settings. -3.0 front and -2.0 rear.

[kpaso]

+1 to what he said above. The M2 feels more fun on track.

[maddmatth]

Wider track means technically M4 should handle/grip better and put the power down better.

It also comes with CF roof as standard, more power in stock form, brake pads are easier to swap (slides in/out the back of the calipers), can come with EDC suspension which the M2C doesn't get which can make it a little better for dual duty.

But if you're up for modifying the car and want it mainly as a track toy... then it more just depends on preference.

Also if you're tall, fitment might be better in the M4 especially with a helmet - although I'm not totally sure.

Also you might want to avoid tuning the engine and trans if you get one with a BMW warranty. There is no hiding a tune from BMW, not even by flashing back to stock.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by maddmatth

Wider track means technically M4 should handle/grip better and put the power down better.

It also comes with CF roof as standard, more power in stock form, brake pads are easier to swap (slides in/out the back of the calipers), can come with EDC suspension which the M2C doesn't get which can make it a little better for dual duty.

But if you're up for modifying the car and want it mainly as a track toy... then it more just depends on preference.

Also if you're tall, fitment might be better in the M4 especially with a helmet - although I'm not totally sure.

Also you might want to avoid tuning the engine and trans if you get one with a BMW warranty. There is no hiding a tune from BMW, not even by flashing back to stock.

M2 and M4 share the same track. Only wheelbase differs, which makes the M2 more nimble.

[BulkBen]

Thanks everyone, really appreciate the input.

If / when I start the build I'll jump on and take people through it here.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by maddmatth

It also comes with CF roof as standard, more power in stock form, brake pads are easier to swap (slides in/out the back of the calipers),

M2's don't have the same feature?!

[Suds]

M2 has a metal roof, then tune with BM3 and it is equal to an M4 with a BM3 stage 1 tune.

Originally Posted by jmg

M2's don't have the same feature?!

[maddmatth]

If you're referring to the CF roof... no, but you can buy one from BMW and have it fitted. Only the M2CS got it as standard.

[dvas]

With the same engine, less weight and a shorter wheelbase, I would say the M2 is more fun on track than an M3/4. Both should be similar in terms of lap times, assuming similar track mods, but I would imagine the M3/4 being a bit faster at longer tracks, given it's superior stability, albeit maybe less fun.

[F80Speed77]

Going to throw a curveball here but why isnt the Supra in the mix? It seems to be on equal footing to the M2C from a pure track day perspective.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by jmg

M2's don't have the same feature?!

For the brakes the M2C rear pads swap just like M3/4, but the front caliper has a fixed bridge so you have to remove the caliper to change pads.

Fun fact, the M2 CS Racing 350hp variant uses the same rear caliper as M2C, but the 450hp variant gets the Alcon rear BBK (both variants come with Alcon front BBK).

[BulkBen]

Originally Posted by F80Speed77

Going to throw a curveball here but why isnt the Supra in the mix? It seems to be on equal footing to the M2C from a pure track day perspective.

Good question, a few key reasons.

The B58 vs S55. I currently have a B58 in my X3M40i and it has taken a lot of time and effort to get it to its current power levels (fuel pump, DP, larger turbo and custom tune). The S55 achieves it with a simple tune thanks to those twin turbos.

I know the S55 has some weaknesses (ie crank hub) but at the levels I am playing with its very unlikely to be an issue.

Second big stumbling block for the Supra is the 2 seats. My Alfa 4C was a two seater and it was always a shame I could only take one kid in it at once when doing leisurely drives.
I don't plan to cage the car, which will preserve the back seat, so the rare family outing is still an option.

My brief may be misunderstood btw. I am by no means building a full blown track car, as my Mini covers that spot. The goal here is to spend a minimal amount on brakes, tyres, tune, alignment and potentially suspension to bring lap times down as much as possible.
Keeping it simple means a much easier transition from one car to the next when it comes time to sell.

There's always the risk I fall in love with something and want to keep it longer, but I suspect that's more likely to happen with a 718 than an M2 or m4.

[F80Speed77]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

For the brakes the M2C rear pads swap just like M3/4, but the front caliper has a fixed bridge so you have to remove the caliper to change pads.

Oh god the front calipers are soo heavy lol, such a pain in the ass to work with.

[F80Speed77]

Originally Posted by BulkBen

Good question, a few key reasons.

The B58 vs S55. I currently have a B58 in my X3M40i and it has taken a lot of time and effort to get it to its current power levels (fuel pump, DP, larger turbo and custom tune). The S55 achieves it with a simple tune thanks to those twin turbos.

I know the S55 has some weaknesses (ie crank hub) but at the levels I am playing with its very unlikely to be an issue.

Second big stumbling block for the Supra is the 2 seats. My Alfa 4C was a two seater and it was always a shame I could only take one kid in it at once when doing leisurely drives.
I don't plan to cage the car, which will preserve the back seat, so the rare family outing is still an option.

My brief may be misunderstood btw. I am by no means building a full blown track car, as my Mini covers that spot. The goal here is to spend a minimal amount on brakes, tyres, tune, alignment and potentially suspension to bring lap times down as much as possible.
Keeping it simple means a much easier transition from one car to the next when it comes time to sell.

There's always the risk I fall in love with something and want to keep it longer, but I suspect that's more likely to happen with a 718 than an M2 or m4.

Crank hub can happen to anyone at any power level but the M3/M4 hits all the check boxes especially if you like to throw the kiddos in the back for some mild hooning!!! Mine love it!