E85 killed one of my injectors

[M4J0R T0M]

Hey guys, pretty sure E85 killed my cyl 3 injector. Im running an MHD st 2 tune and been on E85 for maybe three tanks now. Only driven on the weekends and driven pretty hard when I do drive it. Today I was going down the interstate at 80 in cruise. Started going up a hill and it started missing, not bad at first, then it got worse. I ended up driving it about a mile and pulled over and checked codes. I got several fuel related codes, and several misfire codes. Cylinder 3 being the only one named in particular. It was also smoking from the tailpipe and there was a serious raw ethanol smell so I'm thinking injector 3 is stuck open. Does that sound right to y'all?


I've got about 62k on my car so I might as well replace the plugs while in there changing that injector, also plan on doing an oil change. I'll also be upgrading my charge pipes and installing ARM resonated DP's at the same time. Here's a couple questions regarding the repairs and upgrades.

1. Would y'all replace all the injectors or just #3? If I only replace the failed injector will I need to worry about the others failing if I keep running E85?
2. When I upgrade the DP's I'll be able to go stg 2+ which means E30 is the highest ethanol content I can run, should I do that or stick with 93?

[hellokitty]

Do you have a fuel filter like the ID750 offered by Bend Calibration? If you've been running on pump gas for 60k miles then switched to full E85, the ethanol probably dislodged dirt inside your fuel tank and caused injector 3 to fail. This is more common when you have poor quality fuel stations in the area or fill up frequently on non top tier gas stations.

I would add a fuel filter then replace the failing injector. However, I believe it is best to replace all injectors on the same bank so if you want, you can replace cyl 1-3 or do all 6 since S55 injectors are relatively inexpensive. Get them from fcp euro.

You may want to consider switching to BMW Flex Fuel plugs (NGK F8S) and gap to .020 as well. You might as well also replace your coil packs as well since everything is coming off at this point.

[TopJimmy]

Single injector swap out…you now know the other injectors held the high pressure, so keep them.

Suck out any remaining fuel from the cylinder.

New set of NGK plugs.

Oil change immediately, and again immediately. You don't want ethanol thinned oil circulating.

[M4J0R T0M]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

You may want to consider switching to BMW Flex Fuel plugs (NGK F8S) and gap to .020 as well. You might as well also replace your coil packs as well since everything is coming off at this point.

I ordered a single Bosch injector and a set of NGK 97506’s from FCP. I ordered those plugs based on some of the other E85 threads I’ve read on here. Are the F8S preferable, if so why?

I also found a thread recommending that Bend filter kit, are there other options or that the only way to go?

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by M4J0R T0M

I ordered a single Bosch injector and a set of NGK 97506’s from FCP. I ordered those plugs based on some of the other E85 threads I’ve read on here. Are the F8S preferable, if so why?

I also found a thread recommending that Bend filter kit, are there other options or that the only way to go?

F8S is far superior to 97506 if you are running ethanol blends or full E85. You can see these in data logs as timing will break up on the higher RPM range on 97506s.

Per Cary: "The NGK 97506 being totally adequate for pump gasoline, isn't the best choice for E85 usage, whereas the NGK BMW Germany F8S plug should be used. The NGK 97506 plugs are more readily available and can be used with E85, but won't last as long nor have equal performance to the NGK F8S Flex Fuel Plugs."

As far as I know, only bend calibration offers the ID750 kit made specifically for our cars.

[M4J0R T0M]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

F8S is far superior to 97506 if you are running ethanol blends or full E85. You can see these in data logs as timing will break up on the higher RPM range on 97506s.

Per Cary: "The NGK 97506 being totally adequate for pump gasoline, isn't the best choice for E85 usage, whereas the NGK BMW Germany F8S plug should be used. The NGK 97506 plugs are more readily available and can be used with E85, but won't last as long nor have equal performance to the NGK F8S Flex Fuel Plugs."

As far as I know, only bend calibration offers the ID750 kit made specifically for our cars.

Thanks for your help. I’ll see if I can get fcp to swap out the plugs before they ship my order.

[TR930]

I'm wondering is, are F8s plugs good for straight gas and e85?

I have both sets in my garage,, about to go in tomorrow on a turbo upgrade. I'm thinking F8S leaves the E option open vs 97506.

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by TR930

I'm wondering is, are F8s plugs good for straight gas and e85?

I have both sets in my garage,, about to go in tomorrow on a turbo upgrade. I'm thinking F8S leaves the E option open vs 97506.

Yes, F8S are best if you use both fuels.
NGKs are best for gas only tuned cars, but still work well for E85.

[M4J0R T0M]

Originally Posted by TR930

I'm wondering is, are F8s plugs good for straight gas and e85?

I have both sets in my garage,, about to go in tomorrow on a turbo upgrade. I'm thinking F8S leaves the E option open vs 97506.

Good point, I’d like to know as well since I would like to continue to have the option to switch back to 93 if needed.

[Info@mad-us.com]

Been there before with 1 injector stuck open. I was adding an additive to every tank and switched to 93 on schedule. Additive I was suggested may have caused it as was fairly gelly but who knows.

I replaced all injectors no issues since . (stopped using additive)

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by M4J0R T0M

Good point, I'd like to know as well since I would like to continue to have the option to switch back to 93 if needed.

F8S works well with either pump gas or full e85 or anything in between. It's just a superior plug compared to the 97506.

If you only use pump gas then 97506 is just fine.

[BitchinManWheels]

Originally Posted by Info@mad-us.com

Been there before with 1 injector stuck open. I was adding an additive to every tank and switched to 93 on schedule. Additive I was suggested may have caused it as was fairly gelly but who knows.

I replaced all injectors no issues since . (stopped using additive)

Which additive did you use?

[TopJimmy]

Just a point on additives or lubes…don't use them.

Sales@KRATOS did some research with Bosch and the problem comes from the very high PSI that's required to deliver the fuel volume that E85 requires. Nothing "sticks" or "clogs"…it's the running over-designed-pressure can break the internal gate component of the direct injector.

There are other cases of clogged injectors, but that's not the over-pressure break that I describe above.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

Just a point on additives or lubes…don't use them.

Sales@KRATOS did some research with Bosch and the problem comes from the very high PSI that's required to deliver the fuel volume that E85 requires. Nothing "sticks" or "clogs"…it's the running over-designed-pressure can break the internal gate component of the direct injector.

There are other cases of clogged injectors, but that's not the over-pressure break that I describe above.

Would it make sense to upgrade to S63 EU5 injectors for more durability?

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Would it make sense to upgrade to S63 EU5 injectors for more durability?

The EU5 can supply more volume which would keep a stock turbo E85 setup happier.

With big turbos you can still hit a limit with EU5 E85 volumes, then PI is needed.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

The EU5 can supply more volume which would keep a stock turbo E85 setup happier.

With big turbos you can still hit a limit with EU5 E85 volumes, then PI is needed.

Thanks for confirming. If any of my injectors go, I'll definitely do a set of EU5s

[M4J0R T0M]

Originally Posted by Info@mad-us.com

Been there before with 1 injector stuck open. I was adding an additive to every tank and switched to 93 on schedule. Additive I was suggested may have caused it as was fairly gelly but who knows.

I replaced all injectors no issues since . (stopped using additive)

Which additive was it?

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Thanks for confirming. If any of my injectors go, I'll definitely do a set of EU5s

I did some reading up on the EU5's and saw that you have to run a custom tune and that the injectors have to be tuned and calibrated to the car. I would go that route as well but I'm just wanting to stick with OTS maps for now.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by M4J0R T0M

Which additive was it?

I did some reading up on the EU5's and saw that you have to run a custom tune and that the injectors have to be tuned and calibrated to the car. I would go that route as well but I'm just wanting to stick with OTS maps for now.

You don't need a custom tune. BM3 Stage 1 and 2 Multimap has this feature built in now. Just select EU5 injectors in map configuration…

[Kal_el]

This just happened to me.

White smoke and leaking fuel. I replaced all injectors and plugs. She’s running fine now. I ran an entire tank of 91 e20 and now on a full tank of 93. I’m going to stick to just pump until I have time to get a filter on there. I had 40k miles and you can see how bad my injectors were from the bottom waste and sediment.

[M4J0R T0M]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

You don't need a custom tune. BM3 Stage 1 and 2 Multimap has this feature built in now. Just select EU5 injectors in map configuration…

Hmm, I wonder if MHD has that feature as well?

If I don’t have to get a custom tune then I’d be all over the EU5’s. What all is involved with the calibration? Is that a DIY project?

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by M4J0R T0M

Hmm, I wonder if MHD has that feature as well?

If I don’t have to get a custom tune then I’d be all over the EU5’s. What all is involved with the calibration? Is that a DIY project?

MHD should have the same feature. My wife's car runs MHD flex fuel and I do recall seeing that option when flashing.

You'll need to calibrate the injectors.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1798614

[Tommix]

I would like confirmation of this, NGK SILZKBR8F8S spark plug is the same as BMW's Spark plug, High Power 12120042724?
This BMW 12120042724 is cheaper than NGK here in Europe (18,72 EUR = 20,11 USD.) and no taxes. NGK is also harder to find here in Europe