MotorTrend Head 2 Head: 2015 BMW M4 vs 2016 Chevrolet Camaro SS

[DocWeatherington]

The Sky Is Falling...

[minn19]

Originally Posted by FC4

Yes, it's completely disconnected. Doesn't mean it's "no fun" but it's certainly not a "fun" car to drive. I say this because I've driven almost everything.

Everything they said is spot on. I can't disagree with a single point they made about the M4 compared to the Camaro except for the which one to drive home bit. Regardless, I still picked the M4. Don't care to own a Camaro, and I'm hardly your typical BMW-loving, American-car-hating fanboy given I've owned several Corvettes past and present. And these two guys are still the biggest dweebs in automotive journalism.

The steering is numb, but calling the entire car disconnected is completely wrong IMO. Especially when it comes to what is going on with the rear of the car and overall available grip in the corners.

I liked Randy P's short commentary about the cars much more than the other two guys.

By the way, I'm taking nothing away from GM and the Camaro. It certainly looks like they built a great car for a bargain price. I'm sure I'd I have a blast driving it and I'm an unashamed self professed GM hater.

[ClothSeats]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Your right.. but again the Americans can spread cost of development among tons of sales and platforms.

The Germans don't have this option and the cars will never be American cheap value for performance. Its not going to happen

Actually Germans are very good at this. 3-series, 4-series, 2-series?, GC, GT, etc. all versions of the same platform. x28i, x35i, diesel engines shared across the lineup. Main difference is M cars get unique engines (although M5/M6/X5M/X6M engines are related). AMG and Audi RS share engines between their respective model ranges. An extremely effective way of spreading development costs.

It was because GM copied the German business model, instead of their old system of rebadging the Camaro into a Pontiac, that they were able to spend so much on the Alpha platform.

[hellrotm]

Congrats to GM, they built a great car.

They failed to mention the Camaro won riding on runflat tires.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Now the question is how well did BMW fix this with the CP ... Some would say the sky is falling, but it's not...

Question is how much better is the 1LE? I guess we will need a rematch. 1LE won't be on runflats like the SS.

[lens]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

My CA said it best. People bitch about things they don't have.

It's not a car I would own, I had borrowed a buddy's M4 while he was on temporary deployment for a month, and while I had fun with the car, the engine noise being routed though the speakers sounds weird, it's not natural, people make fun of the M3/M4 for that. car was fully stock. But again, I never would review anything if I haven't driven it.

It certainly turns heads, but after test driving the C63s, that's a car I would own.

[shu5892001]

Originally Posted by ixse

Bmw m fanboi alert : dont watch this vid. Some facts and some biased things, but really, some of it is on point.

[hemi to e90]

Originally Posted by minn19

Call me a fanboy or whatever, but it is as simple as this for me. If you can drive an M3/4 and then look me in the eye and tell me it is as completely disconnected and no fun to drive like these two say it is.......then I cease to take you seriously as "car guy." No matter who you work for etc.

the car is completely disconnected and no fun to drive? where did you get that from from that video?

[shortseller]

Great, now I get to look forward to Camaro SS drivers f'ing with me at stoplights!

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by chaungo

, the engine noise being routed though the speakers sounds weird, it's not natural, people make fun of the M3/M4 for that. car was fully stock.

FYI, after i coded the active (aka fake) sound off, the only difference was downshifting at low RPM. the car sounds exactly the same at wide open throttle and at higher RPM

active sound "issue" is overblown in my opinion, just like all the other "issues" (that are really "personal preferences") with the car

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

But there is no reason they had to get tons of worthless options for an 80K plus sticker then complain about the cost of the BMW.. Its like buying a base 911 with 50K in options that don't have any perforamce value.

What I am saying is the issues that are mentioned in this review are nothing new.. the F8X has a traction issue as set up... and the sound sucks, steering needs a bit of loving too...

I'm with you completely. My F80 is pretty stripped down for that exact reason. full leather, parking cameras and individual paint and leather color etc don't make the car faster (but they are nice to have for sure!!)

Swap to 305 wide tires to put power down, change exhaust to suit taste and F80 is good to go

[visi107]

While I do agree that some of the critiques they had for the M4 were on point, I find this comparison pointless. The cars may have similar stats like power, torque, weight and a few others but it stops there. These cars are not in the same class. I would doubt that people who buy an M3/M4 seriously consider the Camaro SS as an alternative or vice versa. Why did they not compare the camaro ss with the ATS-v? or with the corvette?
If we just compare cars for the sake of comparing cars then then let's compare the SS against the new Porsche 911 which will have the turbo engine, call the porsche crap bc it's not naturally aspirated and it costs 70k more optioned up and we'll just declare the camaro the winner again. We don't even need to drive the cars.

[Powaup]

Man MT has hated the F8X ever since Carlos Lago left

Even though they make some really good points. This car is a lot of FUN, puts a smile on my face every time I get in it. I just don't understand how anyone could say that it's boring. Crazy that my 71K USD car has more bang for the buck than their car maybe if they had a better equipped car they would feel different. Comfort access? sat radio? heated steering wheel? adaptive suspension? I have all that for $10k less than their car. Oh and Active sound can be coded off and the exhaust sounds much better with the valves open.

Could BMW have done a better job? of course, there is no valid reason why they shouldn't have put an on/off switch for rev matching, the shifter should be less rubbery, improved EPS and drivers should be able to control the exhaust valves and active sound in an easier manner BUT no car is perfect


P.S: Why didn't they use the competition package, if that won Steve Sutcliff over it might win the MT guys over

[Powaup]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

FYI, after i coded the active (aka fake) sound off, the only difference was downshifting at low RPM. the car sounds exactly the same at wide open throttle and at higher RPM

active sound "issue" is overblown in my opinion, just like all the other "issues" (that are really "personal preferences") with the car

Right there with you on that one, I have ASD coded off as well and it's not big of a change

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by hemi to e90

the car is completely disconnected and no fun to drive? where did you get that from from that video?

That came right from the video in this thread. That is what the reviewers said. "It should be fun to drive and it is not!!"

[ClothSeats]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

That came right from the video in this thread. That is what the reviewers said. "It should be fun to drive and it is not!!"

FWIW Randy liked it.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Funny how they reversed trolled the trolls. Saying they got their AMG and Chevrolet paychecks, but their BMW check bounced.

[dreamingat30fps]

I totally agree with the reviewers in regards to the direction BMW is taking in general. I do think they exaggerated on the BMWs options as an $80k M4 would have all the options they claimed to be missing so I'm not sure what weird ass configuration they got, but even at $70k the Camaro is still like $30k cheaper... you have enough left over for another car.

I actually bought a 2016 Camaro SS recently and I was a die hard anti GM guy. Mainly because of their horrid interiors. The new Camaros interior is leaps and bounds better than any of the previous generations. It may not be BMW, Audi, Merc level, but it is a huge step forward and also keep in mind Chevy is not GMs premium brand. I have owned several BMWs and unfortunately it seems my Z4M will be my last (and favorite) for now as none of the newer BMWs do anything for me.

[ixse]

Just wait till they start head to head m3 comp pk vs camaro ss 1 le. The world of M forum community will fall apart and hell will rise . Lol

[M3guy3]

i will never buy a camaro.


With that said, we live in a time where cheaper cars can compete with more expensive cars performance wise. Everything now of days is getting so fast, something has got to give at some point. We cant just keep making them faster and faster each generation at the rate we are at.

The BMW M4 was a setup up from the E92 generation performance wise. The camaro SS which had a 426HP engine, now has a 455HP motor with proper suspension. Both cars made improvements over last generation.

There are more to cars than just performance. The BMW is classy, luxurious, and better resale.

[ClothSeats]

Motor Trend review of a similarly specced M4 (cloth seats, fixed dampers, carbon ceramics) with a DCT. Interestingly it had a shorter braking distance but turned a slower time than the 6MT.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Ian1973

The thing no reviewer can mention is, lets see how the Camaro feels in 5 years with 60,000 miles on it.

I had a 335 that was 6 years old with 50,000 miles on it and it felt and sounded exactly the same as it did when I bought it with 7000 miles on it 3 years prior.

That's the thing with the Americans, because they build them at a way cheaper price point, something has got to give and that is by the quality of the assembly of parts. So after a few years and 10s of thousands of miles, they loosen up, rattle, squeek, etc.

This isn't just BMW, Merc's, Audi's and Porsche's also are like this.

Wish I was as lucky... my M4 isn't so buttoned down after 2 years of ownership. The dash, door panels and other places squeak and creak. The speakers buzz on news radio channels. I don't think quality of assembly is necessarily a big advantage... but I still love my M4 nonetheless

I wouldn't buy a Camaro and think the M4 is a great car. However, if people are being objective (and badge agnostic) then its pretty hard these days to hold BMW on the same pedestal. The Mustang and Camaro are putting out cars that not only perform as well (or better) but "feel" as good (or better) to drive. Ignore the fact that a C7 GS will eat the M4 for lunch for less money (if pure performance is your measure). The only thing BMW really has over those cars today (if we are being completely honest) is brand status. This does matter a lot to some people. However, if someone is looking for performance and feel, its a pretty level playing field these days and, if price matters, there are great options to the M3/4. For me, I wouldn't buy a Camaro for subjective reasons (size, looks, interior design... although quality is good). If I liked how a Camaro looked (and some people really do), I'd be testing one out to see if it would replace my M4