Brake Cooling - low tech/high tech... anything

[Nothing]

Brake cooling is almost non existent on these cars and there should be. I mean, they're ///M cars right?

(Sorry if the linked pics are a little large)

So far I see a solution for the hardcore track guys from Revozport



There has been some debate (last I saw) about whether this design is as optimized as it should be since you can see that the backing plate covers the full rear face of the brake disc and the outlet is directing the air on to the face of the disc instead of the center hub to allow the air to divert evenly through the center vanes and cool both sides of the disc evenly. See the two pics below.

backing plate on an E90:


Revozport on an F80:


Does this cool the brakes? Yes, and probably very, very well though I haven't seen any measurements to prove just how much.
My question is where are the F chassis versions from companies that made E chassis kits? Cantrell, Achilles, Turner, HARD etc...
Also, lets agree that aluminum is fine here, no need for CF parts to just add unnecessary $$$ to the cost.


The low tech solution that I'd like to see if anyone has already tried, is one that Porsche implements.



There are plenty of aftermarket companies out there that make similar versions of this scoop design. Some in plastic and some in billet aluminum.

[Lojs]

I have been stuggling with overheating breaks for quite a while now. I am running upgraded turbos, hence a much faster car on track. My car is eating through Pagids like butter cookies. One set of pads for 2-3 track days.

I have researched brake cooling a little, but there is surprisingly little offered on the market.

The revozport is mentioned most often, but the scoops are designed to work with an M-performance lip and also require additional inserts to divert air into the scoops. (lips are a no-go for me)

Then there is the German company LIGHTWEIGHT. They have a kit where the carbon "dust-shield" appears to divert better to the center/inside of the brake rotor. The pictures are however confusing as to where the scoops draw air from. I could not find any pictures in the installed state. They would not respond my emails asking for more details.

Here is the link:
http://www.lightweight-titanauspuffa...mw-m4-f82.html

Then there is another German company called Laptime Performance. They also offer carbon "dust-shields" very similar looking to LIGHTWEIGHT. But its not a kit.
https://www.laptime-performance.de/s...remsentechnik/
When asked how to use them, they suggested that I also buy a front spoiler from them with ducts. I would have to source/route the air hoses myself.
https://www.laptime-performance.de/s...rosserieteile/

Then there is the company a-worx, mentioning brake cooling in the list of offering, but no further info available. Again i had little luck getting a response in the summer holiday season and then lost interest myself.
http://www.a-workx.com/performance-c...82-m3-f80.html

[Nothing]

Originally Posted by Lojs

I have been stuggling with overheating breaks for quite a while now. I am running upgraded turbos, hence a much faster car on track. My car is eating through Pagids like butter cookies. One set of pads for 2-3 track days.

You definitely need the robust track focused set up. If you look on this site a member made his own set up, but no feedback on the results.

I called Boomba Racing, located in Illinois, and asked if they would entertain producing a billet piece for the F80 chassis. They took down my info and said that they would mention it at the next meeting and see if the team feels there's a desire (market) for this product.

While we wait on that, I'll keep reaching out to other companies. Can't put all our eggs in one basket.

[heckyeahbro69]

This is what I ended up with. It's cheap to put together and seemed very effective. I haven't been to the track much this year as I've been super busy, but last time out at sebring I could make a full 25-30 minute session where as before I was getting about 15 minutes in the middle of summer. I wish I had real hard temp data but I just haven't been busy with other things lately.

[Woodengun]

If you are wanting and willing to go more hardcore, I think weight reduction is the best place to start. Lighter helps many aspects of driving besides requiring less braking energy to slow the car.

[Nothing]

Originally Posted by heckyeahbro69

This is what I ended up with. It's cheap to put together and seemed very effective. I haven't been to the track much this year as I've been super busy, but last time out at sebring I could make a full 25-30 minute session where as before I was getting about 15 minutes in the middle of summer. I wish I had real hard temp data but I just haven't been busy with other things lately.

That looks great! It's the closest thing I've seen to the center of the rotor yet. Where can we buy that piece? Are the caliper bolts holding on well even with that in between?

[Nothing]

Originally Posted by Woodengun

If you are wanting and willing to go more hardcore, I think weight reduction is the best place to start. Lighter helps many aspects of driving besides requiring less braking energy to slow the car.

99% of us just aren't going to do that. Not for 2-5 track days a year. Shedding 500lbs from this car isn't going to change the need for some type of brake cooling. Current generation Camaros come with a plastic break duct air scoop thing and GM even sells a $30 track day snap in upgraded flow version. BMW gave us nothing.

[Lojs]

Originally Posted by heckyeahbro69

This is what I ended up with. It's cheap to put together and seemed very effective. I haven't been to the track much this year as I've been super busy, but last time out at sebring I could make a full 25-30 minute session where as before I was getting about 15 minutes in the middle of summer. I wish I had real hard temp data but I just haven't been busy with other things lately.

It sure is a cost effective solution!
I am just not sure it will arrive with me to the track after 300km/h on the autobahn. :

Jokes aside, it is the first time I see the hose being routed behind all the suspension components and not in front/between them. Good stuff.
Any rubbing on full lock?
Also I have mixed feelings about touching the caliper mounting, the amount of stress at those bolts at hard breaking is tremendous.

[Lojs]

Originally Posted by Woodengun

If you are wanting and willing to go more hardcore, I think weight reduction is the best place to start. Lighter helps many aspects of driving besides requiring less braking energy to slow the car.

If I would be willing to go hardcore i would have bought a lotus. Which is a truly light car.

Name me any 3 significant weight saving options on f8x within $5k besides the seats???

[heckyeahbro69]

Originally Posted by Nothing

That looks great! It's the closest thing I've seen to the center of the rotor yet. Where can we buy that piece? Are the caliper bolts holding on well even with that in between?

it's on Amazon. I got the ducting there too. the duct isn't between the caliper and hub. it's on the inside of the hub, so essentially it's just like adding a very thin shim to the bolt. the caliper still mounts exactly the same. I've had them on my car for probably a year and thousands of miles and I have had zero issues. They are tested to like 150 mph without issue. I haven't had the opportunity to go any faster. I've got 2 zip ties criss crossed holding each duct to the arms.


https://www.amazon.com/Allstar-ALL42...rds=brake+duct

[heckyeahbro69]

Originally Posted by Lojs

It sure is a cost effective solution!
I am just not sure it will arrive with me to the track after 300km/h on the autobahn. :

Jokes aside, it is the first time I see the hose being routed behind all the suspension components and not in front/between them. Good stuff.
Any rubbing on full lock?
Also I have mixed feelings about touching the caliper mounting, the amount of stress at those bolts at hard breaking is tremendous.

i pulled the front bumper and tried to go in the front but all the coolers made it nearly impossible. I really tried to figure it out but the only way it seemed possible was to do some modifications, and I wanted something totally reversible. Here's a pic i just took so you can better see how its mounted.

[chetrickerman]

Originally Posted by Woodengun

If you are wanting and willing to go more hardcore, I think weight reduction is the best place to start. Lighter helps many aspects of driving besides requiring less braking energy to slow the car.

I came from an Evo X where I was able to reduce the weight by over 800 pounds using various methods while keeping a few of the creature comforts, full interior, and still remaining street legal.

From the amount of time I have spent installing parts and checking out my own F80, I can tell you that these cars are extremely well engineered when it comes to using lightweight components. It will be very expensive to drop any significant weight beyond lighter hood, trunk and seats.

Originally Posted by heckyeahbro69

it's on Amazon. I got the ducting there too. the duct isn't between the caliper and hub. it's on the inside of the hub, so essentially it's just like adding a very thin shim to the bolt. the caliper still mounts exactly the same. I've had them on my car for probably a year and thousands of miles and I have had zero issues. They are tested to like 150 mph without issue. I haven't had the opportunity to go any faster. I've got 2 zip ties criss crossed holding each duct to the arms.


https://www.amazon.com/Allstar-ALL42...rds=brake+duct

Thank you!

[Nothing]

Originally Posted by heckyeahbro69

This is what I ended up with. It's cheap to put together and seemed very effective. I haven't been to the track much this year as I've been super busy, but last time out at sebring I could make a full 25-30 minute session where as before I was getting about 15 minutes in the middle of summer. I wish I had real hard temp data but I just haven't been busy with other things lately.

Ok, I know that I'm asking for a lot here but can you take a pic of the caliper side that got trimmed? (See pic) I can see how you trimmed up the inner part. What is that hard line anyway?

[heckyeahbro69]

Yeah I can try to get that for you this evening. Basically it's 2 parts. A flat part welded to a circular part. The welds are at the 12 oclock and 6 oclock positions only, so on the sides its not even attached. I used a dremel and just cut straight to the circular part so the flat part just fell off. no further trimming was needed. You can see one of the cuts in that picture. The small black line is the wheel speed sensor wire.

[Woodengun]

Weight reduction, especially at the front of the car is not easy. I get that.

I think racing seats doesn't reduce weight. You just move weight. The added cage/roll bar largely negates any weight savings.

Wheels - can drop a little bit off each wheel. Same with lighter brake kit like Essex.

I think the suspension parts probably add weight rather than reduce. A steel and aluminum monoball weighs a lot more than a rubber bushing.

Significant weight reduction requires giving up some comforts. I'm not at that point, yet.

I've measured temps of my rotors using a contact thermocouple. 500+ Celsius and that is after doing some cooldown driving. And I don't drive nearly as fast as the car can go. Has anyone measured rotor temps with and without cooling?

[chetrickerman]

Originally Posted by Woodengun

Weight reduction, especially at the front of the car is not easy. I get that.

I think racing seats doesn't reduce weight. You just move weight. The added cage/roll bar largely negates any weight savings.

Wheels - can drop a little bit off each wheel. Same with lighter brake kit like Essex.

I think the suspension parts probably add weight rather than reduce. A steel and aluminum monoball weighs a lot more than a rubber bushing.

Significant weight reduction requires giving up some comforts. I'm not at that point, yet.

I've measured temps of my rotors using a contact thermocouple. 500+ Celsius and that is after doing some cooldown driving. And I don't drive nearly as fast as the car can go. Has anyone measured rotor temps with and without cooling?

Good quality carbon seats can reduce 30-40 pounds each seat

[Nothing]

Originally Posted by heckyeahbro69

Yeah I can try to get that for you this evening. Basically it's 2 parts. A flat part welded to a circular part. The welds are at the 12 oclock and 6 oclock positions only, so on the sides its not even attached. I used a dremel and just cut straight to the circular part so the flat part just fell off. no further trimming was needed. You can see one of the cuts in that picture. The small black line is the wheel speed sensor wire.

Thanks! I know it’s a hassle.

Originally Posted by chetrickerman

Good quality carbon seats can reduce 30-40 pounds each seat

It’ll lighten you wallet 30-40lbs too

[chetrickerman]

Originally Posted by Nothing

It’ll lighten you wallet 30-40lbs too

True story

[FlyingLow78]

Check out my thread about the Revozport kit if you haven't already. I recommend a few things that will reduce the cost quite a bit. I can't recommend an alternative to the scoops, though. I would need to check, but I believe the inner surface of the F80 rotors differ from the E92, so positioning the duct coupler near the center of the rotor (rather than just by the rotating face) seems to be less important, because the F80 rotors aren't so great at scooping up air from the center. I'm not at home at the moment, so I can't look at any of my spare rotors.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1379690

[Nothing]

Originally Posted by FlyingLow78

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1379690

Thanks for that! I never saw that write up. I especially like the rears.

Our stock routers definitely don’t appear to have the ability to pick up a lot of air from the hub/hat area but are you worried about uneven cooling and possibly warping the rotors?

[FlyingLow78]

Originally Posted by Nothing

Thanks for that! I never saw that write up. I especially like the rears.

Our stock routers definitely don’t appear to have the ability to pick up a lot of air from the hub/hat area but are you worried about uneven cooling and possibly warping the rotors?

I'm not worried at all about uneven cooling. I've beaten these rotors really, really hard at Spa, and even repeated stops from 160+ didn't phase them a bit. They're still perfectly smooth and unwarped.

[Caliboy951]

I'm running Stoptech and even under the toughest conditions (100+ temps and coming off the high banks of AutoClub) I've never had any issues with heat. I know this is different due to aftermarket brakes but I wanted to add my 2 cents.