M3/M4 vs. Tesla Model 3 Performance

Aaaaaaaaa · 06-18-2020, 11:08 PM

I would not buy any Tesla any time soon. Model Y has serious QC issues or rather complete lack of QC. Even the recently made Model 3s are having issues. Case in point:

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors...tm_name=iossmf

It's like they forgot to install weather stripping!

OhioRiderAaron · 06-19-2020, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InTheseUncertainTimes

I would not buy any Tesla any time soon. Model Y has serious QC issues or rather complete lack of QC. Even the recently made Model 3s are having issues. Case in point:

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors...tm_name=iossmf

It's like they forgot to install weather stripping!

It blows my mind that the general public and new owners give them a pass for this type of stuff. It's understandable for the first few models and/or during the first year of production, but there's really no excuse at this point.

It's sad because they poached engineers from every subset at other automotive manufacturers/suppliers and still can't get it right. There is obviously fundamental flaws in their current methodology for manufacturing and quality assurance. Any engineer out there, whether auto or otherwise, understands this should never happen and is either

or

atm.

nicknaz · 06-19-2020, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

It blows my mind that the general public and new owners give them a pass for this type of stuff. It's understandable for the first few models and/or during the first year of production, but there's really no excuse at this point.
.

It’s because the cars are really great and owners like fast ev

How long has porsche been making cars? And 991.1 gt3 engines burned at launch. But we all like porsche and sell our f8x for them

My e89 z435 was a qc sh1tshow too but I didn’t shun bmw.

Lemons happen man

MFNATIK · 06-19-2020, 07:05 PM

Who cares about QC when the stock is over 1k. Elon certainly can't give an F lol. The only way Tesla could give a rats ass about making a high quality product is if Elon cares (he doesn't) and the stock value tanks due to investors actually caring about the end product (they don't)

Humdizzle · 06-21-2020, 01:36 AM

i agree the quality and panel gaps aren't up to the competition. just depends on where you place your values, no car is perfect.. at least in this price range. The positives of the EV drivertrain outweigh alot of the cons with the interior and panel gaps. And most will lease them, so in the end you aren't losing money for having slightly off panel gaps. most if not all will turn the lease back in for the next model 3 performance as well... as EV tech is moving very quick. Remember when everyone was drooling about the p85d ? no nobody cares.

BMWsully · 06-21-2020, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

i agree the quality and panel gaps aren't up to the competition. just depends on where you place your values, no car is perfect.. at least in this price range. The positives of the EV drivertrain outweigh alot of the cons with the interior and panel gaps. And most will lease them, so in the end you aren't losing money for having slightly off panel gaps. most if not all will turn the lease back in for the next model 3 performance as well... as EV tech is moving very quick. Remember when everyone was drooling about the p85d ? no nobody cares.

Man some of these excuses are just comical... Panel gaps? Dirt embedded in the paint? Forgetting to put weather stripping on the car? Repair queues of 4-6 months in some cases?

Fit and finish on these is arguably worse than every other major auto manufacture in world right now. I get that the power train is excellent, but that doesn't absolve them from putting out a shitty product in every other aspect.

I know some of you own them and you want to champion the brand, but try to have a little bit of objectivity.

ZCD1 · 06-21-2020, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWsully

...but try to have a little bit of objectivity.

Comments like those coming from a non-owner complaining about a lack of objectivity are ironic, to say the least...

ZCD1 · 06-21-2020, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

...just depends on where you place your values, And most will lease them...

Actually the lease rates are terrible, so very few are being leased, especially compared to a brand like BMW.

That means that owners are betting on being happy with their cars for much longer than the typical lease period, which reflects Tesla’s highest-in-the-industry owner satisfaction level.

BMWsully · 06-21-2020, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZCD1

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWsully

...but try to have a little bit of objectivity.

Comments like those coming from a non-owner complaining about a lack of objectivity are ironic, to say the least...

Oh far from it... my wife owns a base Model 3. I'm WELL aware of all of its short comings (and strengths as well to be fair).

Full disclosure: I wanted her to go with the Honda Clarity but she was hell bent on the Model 3.

ZCD1 · 06-21-2020, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWsully

Oh far from it... my wife owns a base Model 3. I'm WELL aware of all of its short comings (and strengths as well to be fair).

Full disclosure: I wanted her to go with the Honda Clarity but she was hell bent on the Model 3.

Fair enough, but your comments are hardly “objective”.

It’s not some voodoo spell that creates Tesla’s high owner satisfaction rating - people actually really like the cars.

BMWsully · 06-21-2020, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZCD1

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWsully

Oh far from it... my wife owns a base Model 3. I'm WELL aware of all of its short comings (and strengths as well to be fair).

Full disclosure: I wanted her to go with the Honda Clarity but she was hell bent on the Model 3.

Fair enough, but your comments are hardly "objective".

It's not some voodoo spell that creates Tesla's high owner satisfaction rating - people actually really like the cars.

Maybe we have different views of what objectivity really means then, but I digress...

To be fair, my wife loves her 3. Problem is, I'm the one that is stuck with all of the maintenance / upkeep nightmares, so she gets the good and I get the bad.

In any event, I figured that it would at least provide a viewpoint counter to the normal kissing of the Tesla feet that goes on here.

ZCD1 · 06-21-2020, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWsully

Maybe we have different views of what objectivity really means then, but I digress...In any event, I figured that it would at least provide a viewpoint counter to the normal kissing of the Tesla feet that goes on here.

The fact that you think what's been posted in this forum regarding Tesla is "...Kissing of the Tesla feet..." means that we *certainly* do see things differently.

I drove high-end German cars for 20+ years before buying my Model 3 Performance. On balance, I enjoy the Tesla more than any of those German cars. It's not perfect (no car is) but it gives me more pleasure overall than any car I've ever owned. And no, purchasing a Tesla doesn't immediately remove an owner's ability to be objective.

BMWsully · 06-21-2020, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZCD1

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWsully

Maybe we have different views of what objectivity really means then, but I digress...In any event, I figured that it would at least provide a viewpoint counter to the normal kissing of the Tesla feet that goes on here.

The fact that you think what's been posted in this forum regarding Tesla is "...Kissing of the Tesla feet..." means that we *certainly* do see things differently.

I drove high-end German cars for 20+ years before buying my Model 3 Performance. On balance, I enjoy the Tesla more than any of those German cars. It's not perfect (no car is) but it gives me more pleasure overall than any car I've ever owned. And no, purchasing a Tesla doesn't immediately remove an owner's ability to be objective.

Yep, fair enough. As long as you enjoy it, that's all that matters at the end of the day.

On a semi-related EV note... does anyone own / has driven a Honda Clarity PHEV? Like I said, we were very close to buying one before landing on the Tesla, so I'm just curious of others first hand impressions. One of our neighbors just got one (special order I believe) and they can't stop raving about it.

nicknaz · 06-21-2020, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWsully

Maybe we have different views of what objectivity really means then, but I digress...

To be fair, my wife loves her 3. Problem is, I'm the one that is stuck with all of the maintenance / upkeep nightmares, so she gets the good and I get the bad.

In any event, I figured that it would at least provide a viewpoint counter to the normal kissing of the Tesla feet that goes on here.

Which version do you have?

And what maintenance and upkeep issues have you had?

My car has had service twice. Once to rectify some fender paint and driver door alignment issues that I found during sept 2018 delivery (I got a model S loaner and car was in service for 2 weeks) and again to get new tires (tesla van came to my workplace). Bmw has been a lot needier of my time than tesla from a maintenance standpoint

OhioRiderAaron · 06-22-2020, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZCD1

Comments like those coming from a non-owner complaining about a lack of objectivity are ironic, to say the least...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZCD1

Fair enough, but your comments are hardly “objective”.

It’s not some voodoo spell that creates Tesla’s high owner satisfaction rating - people actually really like the cars.

His comments WERE objective. Have you actually looked at the product provided by the Japanese, Germans, and now Koreans? Heck I had an E36 M3 (190k on it) and it still had better panel gaps and paint quality. All of those brands and associated models have their own issues for sure, now and in the past, but there's obviously a lack of accountability and a abundance of excuses for Tesla..

The frustrating part is if Tesla could just improve these minor issues (well they're technically major ones in the eyes of most engineers) they would probably convert even more petrol owners and have far less objection from the current critics.

Again, the M3P is still on my own bucket list of vehicles to own in the short term, but that doesn't mean I can't complain about the manufacturing quality in the mean time. I would just like them to fix all these issues before I pony up for one!

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWsully

Yep, fair enough. As long as you enjoy it, that's all that matters at the end of the day.

On a semi-related EV note... does anyone own / has driven a Honda Clarity PHEV? Like I said, we were very close to buying one before landing on the Tesla, so I'm just curious of others first hand impressions. One of our neighbors just got one (special order I believe) and they can't stop raving about it.

Subjectively (hehe) speaking, it's such an ugly car! They knew how successful the styling had been for Tesla and yet they still go out and design such a strange looking beast. Not sure how many owner's do the "turn around" to look at it when in the parking lot lol. However, I hear it's a great car so there's always some give and take with this segment of vehicles. Not the same type of vehicle, but I think the Insight is the best overall daily drivers out there atm.

Kief · 06-22-2020, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

The frustrating part is if Tesla could just improve these minor issues (well they're technically major ones in the eyes of most engineers) they would probably convert even more petrol owners and have far less objection from the current critics.

Again, the M3P is still on my own bucket list of vehicles to own in the short term, but that doesn't mean I can't complain about the manufacturing quality in the mean time. I would just like them to fix all these issues before I pony up for one!

^^^This

I would have an M3P in the garage already if these issues were addressed.

nicknaz · 06-22-2020, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kief

^^^This

I would have an M3P in the garage already if these issues were addressed.

Kief , OhioRiderAaron if you are in the Bay Area, shoot me a PM.

We can go play with my model 3 at Sonoma and you can check out what the panel gaps and interior are like.

Kief · 06-22-2020, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kief

^^^This

I would have an M3P in the garage already if these issues were addressed.

Kief , OhioRiderAaron if you are in the Bay Area, shoot me a PM.

We can go play with my model 3 at Sonoma and you can check out what the panel gaps and interior are like.

Nick, if you recall, I had an extended 3-day test drive with an M3P last summer. I posted my impressions in this thread several pgs back. Of course I would have a blast with it on Sonoma, but that isn't going to address my quality control/materials concerns.

nicknaz · 06-22-2020, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kief

Nick, if you recall, I had an extended 3-day test drive with an M3P last summer. I posted my impressions in this thread several pgs back. Of course I would have a blast with it on Sonoma, but that isn't going to address my quality control/materials concerns.

Materials concerns for sure will not go away until it’s a redesign.

QC though, I think my car got sorted nicely in that 1 remediation session. I was curious to see if you agreed or if you’d still have concerns.

ZCD1 · 06-22-2020, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWsully

Man some of these excuses are just comical..

Speaking of excuses, Consumer Reports shows the 3-Series' reliability as 1 out of 5, or "much worse than average", while its "If you had it to do over, would you buy that car again?" rating is 68%, ahead of only the Acura TLX and Infiniti Q50 in its class.

The Model 3's ratings are 3/5 (average) and 90% (highest in its class), respectively. Based on that, if anyone needs excuses it would appear to be 3-series owners...

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

Have you actually looked at the product provided by the Japanese, Germans, and now Koreans?

Hmmmmm, well....we currently own 1 German, 1 Japanese, 1 Korean and 1 American car, and I drove German luxury cars for 20+years before buying the Tesla, so yeah, I have ample first-hand experience with the various offerings.

I have had exactly zero issues with my car. The panel alignment is excellent all the way around and at 20K miles it's still tight as a drum.

blinkme323 · 06-22-2020, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kief

Nick, if you recall, I had an extended 3-day test drive with an M3P last summer. I posted my impressions in this thread several pgs back. Of course I would have a blast with it on Sonoma, but that isn't going to address my quality control/materials concerns.

Materials concerns for sure will not go away until it’s a redesign.

QC though, I think my car got sorted nicely in that 1 remediation session. I was curious to see if you agreed or if you’d still have concerns.

Speaking of, has there been any news on a potential redesign or refresh? I know Tesla doesn't work off of the typical vehicle lifecycle so I'm guessing it could be a while.

Aaaaaaaaa · 06-22-2020, 05:33 PM

Hmm here's a brand new Model Y whose backseat just fell off the damn car.
[IMG]https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploa...esize=1024,768[/IMG]

Safe car? Sure seat belt looks really secure
[IMG]https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploa...&strip=all[/IMG]

Imagine if I had my wife and kid in the car and it got in an accident. I'd be an eligible bachelor again yay!

06-18-2020, 11:08 PM	#1123
Aaaaaaaaa Banned 7559 Rep 5,056 Posts Drives: The other M3 Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: So Cal iTrader: (0)	I would not buy any Tesla any time soon. Model Y has serious QC issues or rather complete lack of QC. Even the recently made Model 3s are having issues. Case in point: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors...tm_name=iossmf It's like they forgot to install weather stripping!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-19-2020, 07:05 PM	#1126
MFNATIK Blocked from G80/G82 for having an opinion 3498 Rep 3,729 Posts Drives: Trek Domane Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Mexicali iTrader: (1)	Who cares about QC when the stock is over 1k. Elon certainly can't give an F lol. The only way Tesla could give a rats ass about making a high quality product is if Elon cares (he doesn't) and the stock value tanks due to investors actually caring about the end product (they don't)
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-21-2020, 01:36 AM	#1127
Humdizzle Brigadier General 6071 Rep 3,626 Posts Drives: GT3 + M2c Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Missouri iTrader: (0)	i agree the quality and panel gaps aren't up to the competition. just depends on where you place your values, no car is perfect.. at least in this price range. The positives of the EV drivertrain outweigh alot of the cons with the interior and panel gaps. And most will lease them, so in the end you aren't losing money for having slightly off panel gaps. most if not all will turn the lease back in for the next model 3 performance as well... as EV tech is moving very quick. Remember when everyone was drooling about the p85d ? no nobody cares. __________________ 2018 Porsche GT3 6MT 2021 M2C DCT Previous: Ferrari 458 \| R35 GTR \| F80 M3 \| E46 M3 \| E36 M3 \| Scion FRS
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-22-2020, 05:33 PM	#1144
Aaaaaaaaa Banned 7559 Rep 5,056 Posts Drives: The other M3 Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: So Cal iTrader: (0)	Hmm here's a brand new Model Y whose backseat just fell off the damn car. [IMG]https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploa...esize=1024,768[/IMG] Safe car? Sure seat belt looks really secure [IMG]https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploa...&strip=all[/IMG] Imagine if I had my wife and kid in the car and it got in an accident. I'd be an eligible bachelor again yay!
	Appreciate 0 Quote