Trying to decide next step..downpipes, cai, stage 2

[JipperII]

Hey guys, 2019 m4 zcp currently with AA equal length mid pipe and stage 1 AA tune...

Ready for step 2...thinking downpipes, maybe cai, stage 2 tune, maybe charge pipes....


Downpipes- since I don't want the smell I'm probably going AA catted, sounds like best catted out there, makes some great sound and with a tune decent upgrade performance wise.



CAI- was leaning towards Injen evolution or BMS elite...but the more I read the more it sounds like my best bet might just be to keep the stock boxes and remove the carbon liners and call it a day...sounds like the BMS drop ins can lose power down low...curious if anyone has a strong view here and a similar setup. I do love the sucking sound but the Car is going to sound great with the downpipes so not super worried.


Stage 2 AA tune, should pick up some more power...and I LOVE THE BURBLE DELETE....


Charge pipe might just do it to do it....sounds like no impact but is a weak point.


Anything else I am missing? Thoughts?

[kwikshift]

Spark plugs?

[JipperII]

Originally Posted by kwikshift

Spark plugs?

Yeah kwik, I'm due for them since I just hit 30k miles....reading on here there's something about "gapped" plugs though I'm not really sure the benefit or need...assume it's the gap where the spark fires and there is a benefit to a certain width but would love to learn more and ascertain which plugs i should use with my setup

[TopJimmy]

CBC and a Bootmod3 Stage 2 will put a big wide smile on you. Stock airboxes with charcoal delete….nothing more is needed (not even DPs).

If you get a rough idle then put in NGK 97506 gapped 0.023" and you're good.

If you must have CPs or J upgrades understand that metal soaks heat. Plastic and silicone doesn't soak much.

An aftermarket TMIC to prevent leaking is beneficial.

[Danlnyc88]

BMS isn't a cold air intake. Its a hot air intake and a downgrade from your oem intake.

Id go with front mount like MSR or an enclosed box like Dinan, Eventuri, Status gruppe.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by JipperII

Hey guys, 2019 m4 zcp currently with AA equal length mid pipe and stage 1 AA tune...

Ready for step 2...thinking downpipes, maybe cai, stage 2 tune, maybe charge pipes....


Downpipes- since I don't want the smell I'm probably going AA catted, sounds like best catted out there, makes some great sound and with a tune decent upgrade performance wise.



CAI- was leaning towards Injen evolution or BMS elite...but the more I read the more it sounds like my best bet might just be to keep the stock boxes and remove the carbon liners and call it a day...sounds like the BMS drop ins can lose power down low...curious if anyone has a strong view here and a similar setup. I do love the sucking sound but the Car is going to sound great with the downpipes so not super worried.


Stage 2 AA tune, should pick up some more power...and I LOVE THE BURBLE DELETE....


Charge pipe might just do it to do it....sounds like no impact but is a weak point.


Anything else I am missing? Thoughts?

Stock airbox and BMC filters. This is the only thing you should run for the intake… anything else is just for sound, not power.

[JipperII]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Stock airbox and BMC filters. This is the only thing you should run for the intake… anything else is just for sound, not power.

I'm torn here man, I've read enough posts where people claim power loss from the BMC drop ins but I've never seen a dyno...I'm just worried with the old if there is smoke there is fire thing....didn't want to spend 1500 on the dinan so thought the injen was the quality cheaper version where when paired with all my other mods and stage 2 would help some with throttle response and power.

Right now I'm planning on doing the AA catted down pipes and stage 2 AA tune....torn on intake, spark plugs and charge pipe....sounds like the spark plugs might be critical and the charge pipe can wait but really appreciate all the input given the high cost on labor

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by JipperII

I'm torn here man, I've read enough posts where people claim power loss from the BMC drop ins but I've never seen a dyno...I'm just worried with the old if there is smoke there is fire thing....didn't want to spend 1500 on the dinan so thought the injen was the quality cheaper version where when paired with all my other mods and stage 2 would help some with throttle response and power.

Right now I'm planning on doing the AA catted down pipes and stage 2 AA tune....torn on intake, spark plugs and charge pipe....sounds like the spark plugs might be critical and the charge pipe can wait but really appreciate all the input given the high cost on labor

I believe you are over thinking it. It happens. There is plenty of research on here supporting the following:

- Stick with BMC drop ins. You might lose a few wtq down low, but the gains in whp are there up top. EAS dynoed this setup. Look on YouTube for their video from back in 2015 showing the gains and dyno chart.

- Silicone or titanium charge pipes (ESS or RK Ti) will provide the least amount of heat soak and power loss. Do not get aluminum if you are chasing power.

- AA catted is ok, doesn't lose power. I run the same.

- NGK 97506 if pump gas, NGK flex fuel plugs if running on E85 blends.

- BM3 or MHD will be superior to the AA tune IMO.

[Danlnyc88]

Originally Posted by JipperII

I'm torn here man, I've read enough posts where people claim power loss from the BMC drop ins but I've never seen a dyno...I'm just worried with the old if there is smoke there is fire thing....didn't want to spend 1500 on the dinan so thought the injen was the quality cheaper version where when paired with all my other mods and stage 2 would help some with throttle response and power.

Right now I'm planning on doing the AA catted down pipes and stage 2 AA tune....torn on intake, spark plugs and charge pipe....sounds like the spark plugs might be critical and the charge pipe can wait but really appreciate all the input given the high cost on labor

You're worried about power loss so you decided to purchase the one of the cheapest intake on the market? Lol..

Spark plugs and chargepipes are very very easy to do yourself. Look up YouTube videos.

[JipperII]

Originally Posted by Danlnyc88

You're worried about power loss so you decided to purchase the one of the cheapest intake on the market? Lol..

Spark plugs and chargepipes are very very easy to do yourself. Look up YouTube videos.

The injen evolution was a mid priced and higher ranked cai based kn what I saw....not the beauty of the dinan but seemed like it did well in terms of performance metrics. I am most concerned about low torque and it for good reviews on that and increased sound. I would love to hear your option on the best bang for the buck cai outside of a drop in.

On the charge pipes and plugs...frankly it's worth the 400 bucks to have someone else do it and the peace of mind that it's done right...I don't have the tools or patience honestly.

I'm trying to get this car to feel faster than my old 2017 z51 c7...and I'm guessing the downpipes plus plugs and stage 2 tune, in addition to the mid pipe, should get me there....if there was a cai that also would help I'd be game

[JipperII]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

I believe you are over thinking it. It happens. There is plenty of research on here supporting the following:

- Stick with BMC drop ins. You might lose a few wtq down low, but the gains in whp are there up top. EAS dynoed this setup. Look on YouTube for their video from back in 2015 showing the gains and dyno chart.

- Silicone or titanium charge pipes (ESS or RK Ti) will provide the least amount of heat soak and power loss. Do not get aluminum if you are chasing power.

- AA catted is ok, doesn't lose power. I run the same.

- NGK 97506 if pump gas, NGK flex fuel plugs if running on E85 blends.

- BM3 or MHD will be superior to the AA tune IMO.

Thx....I will bypass the drop ins...down low torque is more important to me than up top, appreciate the plugs rec and do I need to have them gapped?

On the AA downpipes....I can't deal with thr smell so sounds like this is my best bet and can get some good gains with that plus the stage 2 tune...hoping it ends up somewhere in the mid 500s when done

Sounds like most don't feel any cai make a difference huh...wish someone would have dynoed the evolution one before and after to show if those claims were real or marketing

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by JipperII

Thx....I will bypass the drop ins...down low torque is more important to me than up top, appreciate the plugs rec and do I need to have them gapped?

On the AA downpipes....I can't deal with thr smell so sounds like this is my best bet and can get some good gains with that plus the stage 2 tune...hoping it ends up somewhere in the mid 500s when done

Sounds like most don't feel any cai make a difference huh...wish someone would have dynoed the evolution one before and after to show if those claims were real or marketing

All the intakes will basically lose some torque down low due to the nature of the filters.

We are not talking about anything meaningful here, around 1%.

Drop ins are still your best option.

[JipperII]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

All the intakes will basically lose some torque down low due to the nature of the filters.

We are not talking about anything meaningful here, around 1%.

Drop ins are still your best option.

What about just keeping the stock boxes and having them remove the carbon liners? I think I've read that on here and it could help.

Will the spark plugs make any difference? I'm guessing they have never been changed and I'm at 31k mile.

I'm Just hoping the downpipes + El midpipe + stage 2 tune gets the power in the 500s range and has that torquey feel I'm used to from the vette....

Guess the only other thing I could do to add more boom would be upgraded turbos right?

[TopJimmy]

I'm thinking it's warm in Indian Land?

If you're in a warm area and are going for power then you're battling ambient heat raising IATs and losing power (timing will reduce). The stock airflow coming in "ram air" style from the grill and radiator shroud, that provides a cooling effect as pressure reduces in the airbox. Anyone who chooses an under-hood intake realizes the day they install, if they're smart and log/compare.

Where is the bottleneck, and does it matter? I think it's the rectangular ducts that come from the radiator shroud that would be the restriction, but it doesn't really matter much… Our S55 is turbo-dependent for power, so at the low torque range that you've asked for power the turbos can't really be spun up much.

To get TQ low you need good fuel and a custom tune, or do an OTS tune that uses some Ethanol mix (E30 Stg2). At low RPM and low turbo pressure you're relying on the timing to make power.

[JipperII]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

I'm thinking it's warm in Indian Land?

If you're in a warm area and are going for power then you're battling ambient heat raising IATs and losing power (timing will reduce). The stock airflow coming in "ram air" style from the grill and radiator shroud, that provides a cooling effect as pressure reduces in the airbox. Anyone who chooses an under-hood intake realizes the day they install, if they're smart and log/compare.

Where is the bottleneck, and does it matter? I think it's the rectangular ducts that come from the radiator shroud that would be the restriction, but it doesn't really matter much… Our S55 is turbo-dependent for power, so at the low torque range that you've asked for power the turbos can't really be spun up much.

To get TQ low you need good fuel and a custom tune, or do an OTS tune that uses some Ethanol mix (E30 Stg2). At low RPM and low turbo pressure you're relying on the timing to make power.

Thanks man, very much appreciate the insight. Probably not going to do the e85 given the challenges to find it but all makes sense.
So the dyno numbers for the Evo intake down low rpms just marketing? Kinda figured that was the case but it is what it is


Will ask what they can do with the AA tune that my shop does to focus on down low and will hold on the cai...is there any merrit to removing the carbon liners in the stock boxes?

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by JipperII

Thanks man, very much appreciate the insight. Probably not going to do the e85 given the challenges to find it but all makes sense.
So the dyno numbers for the Evo intake down low rpms just marketing? Kinda figured that was the case but it is what it is


Will ask what they can do with the AA tune that my shop does to focus on down low and will hold on the cai...is there any merrit to removing the carbon liners in the stock boxes?

Bootmod3 tune

[JipperII]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

Bootmod3 tune

What's the difference with that vs the AA tune? The shop I go to is very heavy into everything active but I'm sure they could do the bootmod if u asked.

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by JipperII

What's the difference with that vs the AA tune? The shop I go to is very heavy into everything active but I'm sure they could do the bootmod if u asked.

With Bootmod3 you can:
- use a laptop or phone, plus a cable or WiFi adapter, to "flash" (apply the tune) yourself
- turn your tune on or off (flash back to stock)
- pick other tunes (they have a few free ones to pick from, like the CS and GTS stock tunes)
- change settings like burbles, cold start, startup roar, and more…

Totally worth it. You can buy a used license for $350-400 here on BPost.

[JipperII]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

With Bootmod3 you can:
- use a laptop or phone, plus a cable or WiFi adapter, to "flash" (apply the tune) yourself
- turn your tune on or off (flash back to stock)
- pick other tunes (they have a few free ones to pick from, like the CS and GTS stock tunes)
- change settings like burbles, cold start, startup roar, and more…

Totally worth it. You can buy a used license for $350-400 here on BPost.

Many thanks, I am curious how you feel about the AA tune, which is what the shop uses that I'm working with. They did turn off the burbles which made me so happy as they were annoying as all get out.

Can't wait to hear how the exhaust note changes with the AA mid pipe and the AA downpipe, sounds like people really like that with the conpetition exhaust.

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by JipperII

Many thanks, I am curious how you feel about the AA tune, which is what the shop uses that I'm working with. They did turn off the burbles which made me so happy as they were annoying as all get out.

Can't wait to hear how the exhaust note changes with the AA mid pipe and the AA downpipe, sounds like people really like that with the conpetition exhaust.

In the beginning I paid about $1K for a BPMSport tune. It was great but every change cost me more money. I did it mainly to revert to stock back before BMW figured out how to see tunes after deinstall. Later I realized most tuning platforms have similar "stages" and that BM3 was not only cheapest but also let me make my own changes to many prior nickel-and-dime features. After 4 years of playing with F-platforms you can't beat the value of a used BM3 license transfer.

For free go to Bootmod3.net and get the software, and connect to see if your DME is unlocked already (many are). You only need an OBD-ENET cable and laptop.

[JipperII]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

In the beginning I paid about $1K for a BPMSport tune. It was great but every change cost me more money. I did it mainly to revert to stock back before BMW figured out how to see tunes after deinstall. Later I realized most tuning platforms have similar "stages" and that BM3 was not only cheapest but also let me make my own changes to many prior nickel-and-dime features. After 4 years of playing with F-platforms you can't beat the value of a used BM3 license transfer.

For free go to Bootmod3.net and get the software, and connect to see if your DME is unlocked already (many are). You only need an OBD-ENET cable and laptop.

Thank you very much for the input on the thread, enjoying learning and hopefully I can get this car to something that wakes me up in the morning.

Sounds like the e85 is a huge boost but also can be challenging to the engine and hard to find.

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by JipperII

Thank you very much for the input on the thread, enjoying learning and hopefully I can get this car to something that wakes me up in the morning.

Sounds like the e85 is a huge boost but also can be challenging to the engine and hard to find.

Just make sure you get a Crank Bolt Capture plate (a CBC) installed, so your crank hub bolt is secured. Then you can play with Stage 1 or 2 tunes without worry.

If you go with BM3 and do add the CBC then download the GTS tune and get used to some extra power. Then download the Stage 2 tune for your local fuel, and you'll feel a nice bump in power again. Going in steps let's you get used to the feel and to see how you manage keeping traction.

If one does not have a CBC and/or Hub Fix installed then I only recommend to use the GTS tune. Turning off MDM/DSC really let's you play and slide…learning limits of your skill and tires.

If you do want to play with fuels and add some E then try to get a 5gal pail of 98% Ethanol. You can add 1 gallon of E98 into 6 or 5 gallons of pump gas (93 octane E10). This gets you E23-25 and increases octane to 95.5-96 without stressing injectors or fuel pumps. Start with 1+6gal and see how the E23 performs.