F80 M3 vs. B8 S4

[consolidated]

You can't take gee-m-w seriously, you'll regret it if you do. S4, track weapon, stop it.

[RealStig]

Sedan_Clan, Chill, Boss, and all the other forum crowd, where are you guys. Defend the fort! We are under attack by the S4 mob. When it's me bashing the leather seats, I get hit by 25 people in 10 minutes, I cannot believe you guys let this S4 dude still post here!



/sarcasm

gee-m-w,

Your S4 cannot even beat a 335. You need to hit the "home" link and go 2 forums below where it says the F30 forums. That's where you should start with your trolling "attempt".

geez

[ZGM3]

Originally Posted by Chill72

And what S4 has 400HP? APR tune shows 362 horsepower and 345-ft at $1200.

-APR stage 2 with pulley and 100 octane claims of 402 HP.

I am only answering this not to argue all your points against Gee-M-W, but to make sure he doesn't respond with some smart as comment, because we all know he will try to come at you in full attack mode.

[RMB]

IMHO I don't feel that the S4 is in the same category as an M3. I bought a new 2011 prestige ibis white S4 with every option available and liked it very much. Sold it to my parents and bought a new fully loaded LMB 2012 M3. The S4 was NOT the M3. Now I have a 2015 M4 coming (1st on list at my dealer) as I sold my E92 M3. I can't see how the S4 will even be close to the M4. I am familiar with the S4 and have tracked it. It is a great car and I like them a lot, but I don't think it is in the same category as the M.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by gee-m-w

The premium is still closer to $13,000, plus brakes and partial LED lighting. I suppose if you knock out the maps part of the nav screen then it drops to like $10k.

That's $10,000 to lose 390 pounds apples to apples, from my perspective. The quattro helps me power through some of that loss agility, by going full throttle at the apex.

Dude, I'm not sure where you get your math. But it's broken. Try the new kind.

[bmwluvr24]

Well for some reason he likes to respond to me because I tell him straight up that he is smoking crack. I don't give a shit what numbers you pull out of that car, it is not in the same category as an M3. You must be talking about the E30 or E36. Shit, even the E46 would wipe the track with an S4. Comparing a 335i to a 320i is just comical, so please, stop.

[bmwluvr24]

Originally Posted by consolidated

You can't take gee-m-w seriously, you'll regret it if you do. S4, track weapon, stop it.

I am starting to see that. He is quite the overactive imagination story teller though! Oh damn, maybe I actually do like his posts? Hmmmmmm...........

[ZGM3]

Originally Posted by phishhead24

I am starting to see that. He is quite the overactive imagination story teller though! Oh damn, maybe I actually do like his posts? Hmmmmmm...........

He gets a very similar reaction on the Audi sites: people can't stand what he writes, but many enjoy bantering back and forth due to his unbelievable thought process, and people want to read his posts to see what the next set of outrageous comments will be.

Just like the line from Howard Sterns private Parts movie (paraphrase): his fans listen for 2 1/2 hours but the people that hate him listen for 4 hours because they want to hear what the next outrageous comments are.

[bmwluvr24]

Originally Posted by ZGM3

He gets a very similar reaction on the Audi sites: people can't stand what he writes, but many enjoy bantering back and forth due to his unbelievable thought process. Just like the line from Howard Sterns private Parts movie (paraphrase): his fans listen for 3 hours but the people that hate him listen for 4 hours!!

I have a strong distaste for those who just make shit up in the age of instant information. Amazing that the Audi guys don't like him. He is such a wonderful addition to the BMW forum. I guess I will go to the Lexus forum and tell them how stupid the RCF is and how it is basically the same thing as an IS250.

[Chill72]

Originally Posted by ZGM3

-APR stage 2 with pulley and 100 octane claims of 402 HP.

I am only answering this not to argue all your points against Gee-M-W, but to make sure he doesn't respond with some smart as comment, because we all know he will try to come at you in full attack mode.

Oh ok, I'm just trying to get his numbers straight:

APR Stage 2 Tune costs $2500 to get S4 to 400 HP and no warranty at this point.

Also brand new S4 starts at $56K and not $48K that g-m-w said.

So now you got BASE $58.5K S4 with no warranty and a car that is dynamically on par with 320i...Hahahaha

Now add navigation to this S4 and you are at $62K range...talk about overpriced.

[/// M sa]

Originally Posted by Chill72

Oh ok, I'm just trying to get his numbers straight:

APR Stage 2 Tune costs $2500 to get S4 to 400 HP and no warranty at this point.

Also brand new S4 starts at $56K and not $48K that g-m-w said.

So now you got BASE $58.5K S4 with no warranty and a car that is dynamically on par with 320i...Hahahaha

Now add navigation to this S4 and you are at $62K range...talk about overpriced.

Don't forget that you can mod a 335 and it will still spank the s4. I know cause I have a modded e90 as well.

[/// M sa]

Originally Posted by gee-m-w

The 335i is not even in the same league because it's too much like a 320i - no M treatment. 1 wheel drive vs. all wheel drive with a limited slip active rear differential. Also, the S4 comes with a lot more cooling (auxiliary heat exchangers) and makes a lot less heat than a 335i. No limp modes.

Man your lost or just a troll. My modded e90 X drive spanks the shit out of your s4s on the track... Jb4, down pipes and e85 50/50 mix (guess what it cost me less than 900 for both mods). How about you just go away to the s4 forums and have a nice day.

[jbockrd]

Anyone who goes to a BMW forum to bash the cars and praise the glorified family sedan is likely sitting around with no purpose in life and sitting in his underwear with a bowl of jello. Any of us who have driven these cars ABSOLUTELY knows an M car is not related to an S car and we would never compare the 2. So take your apex and put it in your bowl of jello. You don't belong on this forum. We don't bother with you on yours.

[gee-m-w]

Just a few facts. The S4 I bought was MSRP $51,900 with the good leather, the big wheels, the fancy interior trim, and the LSD. The M3 I priced out (in my signature) is $75,550 MSRP give or take a few hundred dollars. I'm being optimistic about how reasonable the option prices might be. My car put out 367 HP at the wheels on 91 octane from a stage 1 stasis/revo ECU flash which most Audi dealerships can install for you for about $1100. The M3 will have a near identical output.

The prevailing argument is that the M3 is in a category of 1. Well, it's in a category of at least 3 if you add in 4 door offerings from other car makers in the same country. It's not like having an S4 makes you unable or unworthy of driving on the same tarmac as an M car. Most of the people posting would have no advantage in lap time driving an old M3 vs. a new M3 on track. It simply takes a level of skill and practice that most people don't have to extract the extra capability out of an M3 vs an S4. You have to ask yourself questions like "Do I have 10,000 laps at Laguna?" or "am I ready for competition classes?" to really be saying that you are absolutely capable of driving the wheels off of an M3.

This session warms up at about 11 minutes:

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by consolidated

You can't take gee-m-w seriously, you'll regret it if you do. S4, track weapon, stop it.

Seriously!!!! The S4 can barely hang with a 335i, yet he's using S4 and M3 in the same sentence.

[Black Gold]

Gee-m-w

Since you track yor car you are surely aware of the advantages of

-600 lbs less weight (4000 vs 3400)
-50/50 balance vs 65/35
-bigger / better brakes
-stiffer suspension materials and frame
-direct mount subframe

The s4 is very heavy soft and floaty in stock form. I've driven one many times. The m3 is by far the sharper car and more capable.

[/// M sa]

Originally Posted by gee-m-w

Just a few facts. The S4 I bought was MSRP $51,900 with the good leather, the big wheels, the fancy interior trim, and the LSD. The M3 I priced out (in my signature) is $75,550 MSRP give or take a few hundred dollars. I'm being optimistic about how reasonable the option prices might be. My car put out 367 HP at the wheels on 91 octane from a stage 1 stasis/revo ECU flash which most Audi dealerships can install for you for about $1100. The M3 will have a near identical output.

The prevailing argument is that the M3 is in a category of 1. Well, it's in a category of at least 3 if you add in 4 door offerings from other car makers in the same country. It's not like having an S4 makes you unable or unworthy of driving on the same tarmac as an M car. Most of the people posting would have no advantage in lap time driving an old M3 vs. a new M3 on track. It simply takes a level of skill and practice that most people don't have to extract the extra capability out of an M3 vs an S4. You have to ask yourself questions like "Do I have 10,000 laps at Laguna?" or "am I ready for competition classes?" to really be saying that you are absolutely capable of driving the wheels off of an M3.

This session warms up at about 11 minutes:

Dyno queen much? My e90 puts down close to 390hp and over 420 tq will spank your s4 anyday so stop your stupid arguments already. The Interior of the s4 is not all that great and the car is not all that good looking either. S4 can't hang with the m3 apples to apples (not modding). The suspension of the s4 is also floaty and handling is not that great.

[gee-m-w]

I'm not saying the S4 has better specifications than the BMW. I'm saying it has sufficient pedigree that it's not a limiting factor in what I like doing with it, which is going the track. I'm saying I'm not good enough to drive the best possible lap time in a 400 HP car to the point where I immediately need a new 400 HP car to enjoy myself. I'm going to buy an M3 in a year or two, just not the launch car. New technology is new technology and I will want something more modern when my car is 5-6 years old. I'm looking forward to BMW modernizing the F30 with new lighting technology and 4G nav in the Life Cycle Injection, or whatever it's called. Maybe a competition package to shift a few bits of binary and make more power.

The S4 3810 pounds with fluids (weighed it myself) and 56.1% nose heavy when parked. Of course cars are the most fun when you are driving them and throttle position can keep the weight at 50/50 while in motion. Further, you have to be at an advanced level to ride solo on a racetrack. It's great that the M3 will be around 3400 pounds but most people on the forum concerned with that have to take a 175 pound instructor with them. Honestly, you'd be pressed to even notice with that much torque. Weight is not a virtue but it's not exactly a deal breaker. Plenty of people have fun in an M5 or an S6 even though it has a lot of mass.

BMW has some pretty genius marketing. Lots of people coming out of the woodwork to defend market segmentation without actually driving the cars on a track and taking an honest look at what they do - no brochure necessary! Someone even said BMW is the only company that offers a warranty, confounding the program wherein you get 4 free oil changes and 1 free brake fluid flush.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by gee-m-w

I'm not saying the S4 has better specifications than the BMW. I'm saying it has sufficient pedigree that it's not a limiting factor in what I like doing with it, which is going the track. I'm saying I'm not good enough to drive the best possible lap time in a 400 HP car to the point where I immediately need a new 400 HP car to enjoy myself. I'm going to buy an M3 in a year or two, just not the launch car. New technology is new technology and I will want something more modern when my car is 5-6 years old. I'm looking forward to BMW modernizing the F30 with new lighting technology and 4G nav in the Life Cycle Injection, or whatever it's called. Maybe a competition package to shift a few bits of binary and make more power.

The S4 3810 pounds with fluids (weighed it myself) and 56.1% nose heavy when parked. Of course cars are the most fun when you are driving them and throttle position can keep the weight at 50/50 while in motion. Further, you have to be at an advanced level to ride solo on a racetrack. It's great that the M3 will be around 3400 pounds but most people on the forum concerned with that have to take a 175 pound instructor with them. Honestly, you'd be pressed to even notice with that much torque. Weight is not a virtue but it's not exactly a deal breaker. Plenty of people have fun in an M5 or an S6 even though it has a lot of mass.

BMW has some pretty genius marketing. Lots of people coming out of the woodwork to defend market segmentation without actually driving the cars on a track and taking an honest look at what they do - no brochure necessary! Someone even said BMW is the only company that offers a warranty, confounding the program wherein you get 4 free oil changes and 1 free brake fluid flush.

The point of contention that everybody has with you is your tendency to try to pair the S4 and its bloated price against the ///M3. The price differential is relatively small (..as people have pointed out on multiple occasions), but the performance delta is vast. The S4 is Audi's 335i.

[M4TW]

Originally Posted by gee-m-w

BMW has some pretty genius marketing. Lots of people coming out of the woodwork to defend market segmentation without actually driving the cars on a track and taking an honest look at what they do.

I think it's a pretty safe bet that you haven't driven the new M3/4 either. And I think there is a Driving instructor Delete option when ordering the new M, so that you won't necessarily incur the extra weight penalty.

Nice video though.

[bmwluvr24]

Well, I was wrong about something for sure. Your S4 is NOT faster than an E36 M3. He was pulling on you!!!!!! Other than that.........exactly what I expected; slow S4 in the novice class thinking he should post shit on a BMW forum. Give it a rest bro, that was not impressive in the least bit. I can see that you were trying not to push too hard in hopes of preventing fade in the brakes. Is this what 10,000 laps gets you at Laguna Seca? Time to put that instructor back in the passenger seat. Oh yeah, and where is the powering through apexes that you talk so highly about? I saw lots and lots of coasting and missed apexes.

[mact3333]

I have had e30, e36, 3 e46 and e92 M3's in the past and imho, with every new generation of M3's, the steering feel has become more numb...the car sits too high and should sit at competition pkg level stock.

I have only been satisfied after adding KW V3 and Bilstein PSS9 coil overs on all my M3's(except e30 and e36) as far as steering feel and handling.

I truly feel the next generation of M3/4's have the steering feel and response that I desire without having to do coil overs yet again.