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      12-15-2014, 12:53 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitw View Post
Too short is not nearly as much a problem as too tall. This is only because a too tall tire will rub pretty quickly. 7mm is likely enough to rub, especially if you are lowered and especially with a more squared off shoulder.

Shorter front means the speedo is off but you end up with more clearance in the fenderwell.
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      12-15-2014, 04:18 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitw View Post
Too short is not nearly as much a problem as too tall. This is only because a too tall tire will rub pretty quickly. 7mm is likely enough to rub, especially if you are lowered and especially with a more squared off shoulder.

Shorter front means the speedo is off but you end up with more clearance in the fenderwell.
I don't disagree... that was my point ... if it doesn't rub then too tall or too short isn't really relevant as the impact on the speedo is the same. Now, if it rubs, that's something completely different

Having said that, I don't believe they will rub if offsets are right because lots of folks drop their cars in excess of an inch (as opposed to the 14mm difference in tire height) without any problem. Having said that, I'm speculating.
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      12-15-2014, 04:26 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitw View Post
Too short is not nearly as much a problem as too tall. This is only because a too tall tire will rub pretty quickly. 7mm is likely enough to rub, especially if you are lowered and especially with a more squared off shoulder.

Shorter front means the speedo is off but you end up with more clearance in the fenderwell.
Shorter(lower overall diameter) also means slower and less traction. For better grip off the line, I'm going with a larger diameter tire. Since 305/35 has been shown to work on stock suspension like mine, then 295/35 shouldn't be a problem.
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      12-15-2014, 05:31 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
I don't disagree... that was my point ... if it doesn't rub then too tall or too short isn't really relevant as the impact on the speedo is the same. Now, if it rubs, that's something completely different

Having said that, I don't believe they will rub if offsets are right because lots of folks drop their cars in excess of an inch (as opposed to the 14mm difference in tire height) without any problem. Having said that, I'm speculating.

Lowering the car doesn't affect where it hits the bump stops, unless it comes with shorter either stops or shorter shock bodies. The car comes VERY close to rubbing as is, and any increase in travel can cause a rub. In fact, with my stock tires/wheels and 12.5mm spacers, I get a TINY rub with my KW V3s because of the increased travel in the rear (only fully loaded/etc)

The point is that there is not much clearance and lowering the car with springs doesn't change where the wheel ends up over a hard bump. The KW HAS kit has shorter front bump stops, so taller tires may end up rubbing up front. The KW V3 have shorter rear shocks too, so depending on how you lower the car, there might not be clearance to go taller at all, if you go wider.
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      12-15-2014, 06:51 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeM3 View Post
Shorter(lower overall diameter) also means slower and less traction. For better grip off the line, I'm going with a larger diameter tire.
Can you explain why that is?
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      12-15-2014, 07:07 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Can you explain why that is?
There are a couple of reasons...a larger diameter tire has a longer (front to back) contact patch which helps forward traction, as opposed to a wider contact patch which helps lateral traction.

A shorter, stiffer sidewall has less flex and it more prone to spin off the line, whereas a taller sidewall allows the tire to set on launch, helping the car move forward rather than just spin. Is is true when in motion, also. Ever notice how dragsters all have big rear tires with sidewalls that flex?

And of course, there's the diameter itself. For each revolution of a tire, it covers a certain distance. The bigger the diameter, the more distance covered per revolution. This data is available on TireRack, which lists revs per mile. Of course, it is offset by weight, so a larger heavy tire can be slower than a small light tire, but all things equal, bigger diameter is better. You can imagine extreme cases where a tire is has a diameter of 1"...the car can rev as fast as it wants, but it will move forward slowly because each rev only moves it forward one inch. Compare that to a tire that has a diameter of 100", where the car moves forward 100" for each rev, and you can see how much faster it would be than the car with 1" diameter tires, assuming equal weight, etc. Of course, this also affects final drive ratio, but that's another discussion.
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      12-15-2014, 08:23 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeM3 View Post
There are a couple of reasons...a larger diameter tire has a longer (front to back) contact patch which helps forward traction, as opposed to a wider contact patch which helps lateral traction.
True. However I doubt that 4% on the diameter makes much of a difference

Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeM3 View Post
A shorter, stiffer sidewall has less flex and it more prone to spin off the line, whereas a taller sidewall allows the tire to set on launch, helping the car move forward rather than just spin. Is is true when in motion, also. Ever notice how dragsters all have big rear tires with sidewalls that flex?
Also true. But to make a real difference, it would be better to go with an 18" wheel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeM3 View Post
And of course, there's the diameter itself. For each revolution of a tire, it covers a certain distance. The bigger the diameter, the more distance covered per revolution. This data is available on TireRack, which lists revs per mile. Of course, it is offset by weight, so a larger heavy tire can be slower than a small light tire, but all things equal, bigger diameter is better. You can imagine extreme cases where a tire is has a diameter of 1"...the car can rev as fast as it wants, but it will move forward slowly because each rev only moves it forward one inch. Compare that to a tire that has a diameter of 100", where the car moves forward 100" for each rev, and you can see how much faster it would be than the car with 1" diameter tires, assuming equal weight, etc. Of course, this also affects final drive ratio, but that's another discussion.
Here, I am not sure I follow you. It does have to do with the final drive ratio, it is not another discussion. Larger diameter tires equate to a taller final drive while smaller diameters equate to a shorter final drive. Period.
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      12-15-2014, 08:46 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Here, I am not sure I follow you. It does have to do with the final drive ratio, it is not another discussion. Larger diameter tires equate to a taller final drive while smaller diameters equate to a shorter final drive. Period.
True, but that may actually help in this case. If you are spinning your wheels coming out of 2nd gear turns (or straights) on stock tires, vs going to slightly taller gearing with bigger tires and hooking up coming out of those same situations, which is faster? I think the latter. If you are already traction limited, do you really want a shorter final drive and MORE wheel torque?

The only way to see how it all shakes out is to try it, but I suspect that I'm right. Clearly BMW is already experimenting with larger rear tires as we have seen in the spy photos, so they may agree as well.
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      12-15-2014, 09:11 PM   #53
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This website is the best I have found in order to compare tire sizes and also get the results when switching sizes (odo error, rpm changes) , hope it will help
http://www.dakota-truck.net/TIRECALC/
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      12-15-2014, 09:14 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeM3 View Post
True, but that may actually help in this case. If you are spinning your wheels coming out of 2nd gear turns (or straights) on stock tires, vs going to slightly taller gearing with bigger tires and hooking up coming out of those same situations, which is faster? I think the latter. If you are already traction limited, do you really want a shorter final drive and MORE wheel torque?

The only way to see how it all shakes out is to try it, but I suspect that I'm right. Clearly BMW is already experimenting with larger rear tires as we have seen in the spy photos, so they may agree as well.
Good point
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      12-15-2014, 10:48 PM   #55
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So what tires do I get on stock wheels when I need a new set. Not gonna race but would love more traction due to all the wheel spin. And with recommendations for spacers only if needed. I have 19's.
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      12-16-2014, 06:55 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeM3 View Post
There are a couple of reasons...a larger diameter tire has a longer (front to back) contact patch which helps forward traction, as opposed to a wider contact patch which helps lateral traction.

A shorter, stiffer sidewall has less flex and it more prone to spin off the line, whereas a taller sidewall allows the tire to set on launch, helping the car move forward rather than just spin. Is is true when in motion, also. Ever notice how dragsters all have big rear tires with sidewalls that flex?

And of course, there's the diameter itself. For each revolution of a tire, it covers a certain distance. The bigger the diameter, the more distance covered per revolution. This data is available on TireRack, which lists revs per mile. Of course, it is offset by weight, so a larger heavy tire can be slower than a small light tire, but all things equal, bigger diameter is better. You can imagine extreme cases where a tire is has a diameter of 1"...the car can rev as fast as it wants, but it will move forward slowly because each rev only moves it forward one inch. Compare that to a tire that has a diameter of 100", where the car moves forward 100" for each rev, and you can see how much faster it would be than the car with 1" diameter tires, assuming equal weight, etc. Of course, this also affects final drive ratio, but that's another discussion.
What are your opinion (sorry if I missed it) to use 295 30 and 275 30 rear and fronts on stick wheels? Stock tires are 35s so side wall is taller.
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      01-09-2015, 09:45 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVUDrJay
So what tires do I get on stock wheels when I need a new set. Not gonna race but would love more traction due to all the wheel spin. And with recommendations for spacers only if needed. I have 19's.
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      01-28-2015, 06:44 AM   #58
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How is the car handling so far?
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      01-28-2015, 11:13 AM   #59
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How is the car handling so far?
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      01-29-2015, 04:36 PM   #60
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IMO

I'm going to use the rear tires in front and 295-35's in rear. The forged OEM 19's wheels are difficult to improve for looking and lightness. Keep in touch.
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      02-07-2015, 02:33 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irablumberg View Post
Update 10/26/14: photos added, 1 shot straight on from front, 1 shot straight on from rear, 1 shot along side

Update: photos added, 1 shot of the front, 2 shots of the rear.

I just replaced the stock MPSS tires on my M4 with 275/30-19 front and 295/30-19 rear Yokohama AD08r tires. I'm still using the stock wheels. I'll try to get pictures by the weekend. Meanwhile, I think the set up looks very good. There is not any significant "bulge" in the sidewalls out beyond the edge of the rim. The sidewall flares out slightly, but it does not look radically different than the stock tire set up.

My observations so far are as follows (based on 40 miles of driving on public roads).

* The sidewalls on the AD08r are much stiffer than the MPSS. On the adaptive suspension, Comfort Mode now feels almost as firm as Sport. I don't mind this as it also gives the car a much greater feeling of control. I still drive in Sport mode and at least on the decent roads in my area, the ride is fine.

* Steering feel is heavier than stock. I use Sport mode for steering and it does feel like the steering weight has increased. This does amplify the effect that some have reported of slightly numb on center feel followed by fairly heavy off center feel. I believe I will get used to the new steering feel in just a few days. It also feels like I get more steering feedback now. In particular, I get a better sense of the road surface. Smooth roads still feel smooth. I can definitely now feel roads surfaces with small bumps or undulations much more clearly than with the stock tires.

* Tire noise is slightly louder than the MPSS, but not at all problematic even at 75-80 MPH.

* The tires appear to fit with no rubbing. I am using stock 19" wheels and no spacers. The tires do poke out from the fenders just a bit more than stock, but it looks good.

* With only 40 miles on the tires, it is a bit early to get a sense of traction. However, I did a few full throttle stomps from a 5 MPH roll accelerating to between 60 and 70 MPH (except for the one where I was a bit slow to react and suddenly I was going 80+ MPH). Out of 5 or 6 tries, I only had traction control intrude and cut power once. This may have been due to crap in the road. On at least 2 of the tries the traction light did not illuminate at all. On the others, the traction light blinked very briefly, but I felt no loss of power. This is already better than the performance of the stock MPSS. With the stock tires I would regularly feel power getting cut when I inadvertently accelerated too hard (not full throttle) from a stop light.

* There are very few roads with any "fun" curves in my area. As a result, I don't know if I will be able to get a real sense of changes in dynamic or steady state cornering. There is one 270* freeway ramp posted at 25 MPH that I previously took at 50 MPH. I will see how the car does on this bit as soon as I have a clear shot.

So far I do like the changes these tires have provided. I do think they will hook up much better than stock once they are fully scrubbed in. This is not a cheap upgrade, but I am happy with it.
Nice work! I had AD08s installed on my E92 M3 previously and had long term use with them. They do intact feel slightly dead on center, but give lots of feedback while turning. Unknowingly I bought them and thought this to myself. Reading reviews months later confirmed it. There was also a substantial difference in traction compared the PSS, almost too much traction for the E92 M3 in that it reduced the fun. With this car however I think PSS are not up to the task.

Question: Not sure you've got the chance to use these tires on the track, but you think they're suitable for track use or should I get the Sport Cup 2s which will very easily keep the wheels hooked up in 1st gear going straight as well as most 2nd gear turns with good throttle control? I'm keeping the PSS for street use given that they last sooooo long. Second set of tires and wheels for track use with AD08 or PSC2. PSC2 don't come in the right sizes but I can improvise.
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      02-07-2015, 04:44 PM   #62
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Did you sign up to Bmw club track events yet brother. Hope to see you their.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacSmallFries View Post
Nice work! I had AD08s installed on my E92 M3 previously and had long term use with them. They do intact feel slightly dead on center, but give lots of feedback while turning. Unknowingly I bought them and thought this to myself. Reading reviews months later confirmed it. There was also a substantial difference in traction compared the PSS, almost too much traction for the E92 M3 in that it reduced the fun. With this car however I think PSS are not up to the task.

Question: Not sure you've got the chance to use these tires on the track, but you think they're suitable for track use or should I get the Sport Cup 2s which will very easily keep the wheels hooked up in 1st gear going straight as well as most 2nd gear turns with good throttle control? I'm keeping the PSS for street use given that they last sooooo long. Second set of tires and wheels for track use with AD08 or PSC2. PSC2 don't come in the right sizes but I can improvise.
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      02-07-2015, 05:53 PM   #63
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Did you sign up to Bmw club track events yet brother. Hope to see you their.
I'm part of the PCA but will consider the BMW events as well. Looking forward to it man! Let me know when you head over there.

EDIT: PSC2 are made in M3 sizes so that would be suitable as well!

You guys think AD08 is good enough or should I step up to the Sport Cup 2s? I have them on my other car and I know traction will exceed my expectations however I don't want to be on the highway when it's raining and worry about hydroplaning. That's the trade off. Also, longer AD08s have a longer track life.

Both tires run wide. So the 255/275 sizes are actually at least 265/285 which is great and just what I'm looking for.
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      02-07-2015, 06:03 PM   #64
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My cousin tracks with the PCA, I am trying to join it as well since they have more track days then the BMW club. Hoping they make a exception that I can join even though I drive a M4.

Ps. I finally installed the KW HAS kit the other day, dropped it 1inch front, .5 rear. Looks great.
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Originally Posted by BigMacSmallFries View Post
I'm part of the PCA but will consider the BMW events as well. Looking forward to it man! Let me know when you head over there.

EDIT: PSC2 are made in M3 sizes so that would be suitable as well!

You guys think AD08 is good enough or should I step up to the Sport Cup 2s? I have them on my other car and I know traction will exceed my expectations however I don't want to be on the highway when it's raining and worry about hydroplaning. That's the trade off. Also, longer AD08s have a longer track life.

Both tires run wide. So the 255/275 sizes are actually at least 265/285 which is great and just what I'm looking for.
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      02-09-2015, 11:25 PM   #65
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[QUOTE=irablumberg;16721351]Update 10/26/14: photos added, 1 shot straight on from front, 1 shot straight on from rear, 1 shot along side

Update: photos added, 1 shot of the front, 2 shots of the rear.

I just replaced the stock MPSS tires on my M4 with 275/30-19 front and 295/30-19 rear Yokohama AD08r tires. I'm still using the stock wheels. I'll try to get pictures by the weekend. Meanwhile, I think the set up looks very good. There is not any significant "bulge" in the sidewalls out beyond the edge of the rim. The sidewall flares out slightly, but it does not look radically different than the stock tire set up.


OP,

Love the tires, and beautiful fitment. My friend ran these on his S4 and raved about them. I just lowered my car with the KW HAS kit and Macht Schnell 12mm spacers front and back. I will be posting proper pictures very soon once I'm finished with this round of mods. As you'll see, I only eliminated the wheel gap and slightly squared off the shoulders. The rear looks like I have room for bigger tires and I really want to do so. My question to you is, Do you think that you could run these tires with a slight drop (less than 1 inch) and still experience no rubbing?
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      02-11-2015, 09:20 AM   #66
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I went with ADVAN AD08 265/35/18 on 9.5" Apex ARC-8 and 295/35/18 rear on Apex 10.5" Apex ARC-8 wheels in satin black on my E90 VF620 SC M3. The overall size of the tire/wheel was the same as having 19" wheels and since the wheels and tires blended together with an all black setup the look wasn't compromised, but the handling was improved greatly compared to the 19" 245/275 MSS setup that was on there before on the OEM non-competition pack wheels.
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