Equal-length exhaust discussion: new S55 sounds

[flipnkraut]

Originally Posted by ntg44

Thank you. This one statement makes me feel like donating my car for 6 weeks was worth it. I put my own money on the line to further the idea, top gear fabricated it, and after all this momentum finally convincing them to make a product that is in my opinion the best sounding exhaust ever made for this engine, only for it to get shut down by almost everyone.

This is the first and last fucking time I'm donating my car to further anything in the aftermarket scene. Obviously an exhaust that sounds better than competition costing up to 2x as much (yes, calling you out Akra) doesn't matter at all. It's not worth the time, the money I put in, or the energy. Guess I should have left it at the $3500 for Remus, $4800 for MPE or $7500 for Akra. It's obvious people are okay spending more on the big names that don't sound better at all, but won't support great small companies that want to actually do something awesome and new and take a chance.

Lesson learned. I'll leave it at that.

I can tell you this, if you had said that you and the other forum members that put their time and money into developing this would get a kickback from this, I'd gladly pay the $4k for this. But Top Gear will be making money hand over fist if you aren't and that's just not right to me.

[e28bimmer]

I love how everybody thinks this stuff is so cheap to produce and it's all being marked up 1000%...aside from the equipment cost and labor cost for an experienced guy to build this stuff, good materials aren't cheap either.

[Agonz128]

ntg44 Thanks for all you did and working with a local shop to get this put together. Best sounding exhaust for these cars hands down.

Price does seem about $1,000-1,500 higher than I anticipated in light of the fact that you (and other members who contributed) gave the shop a working prototype to simply perfect for mass production. I probably could economically justify the full system at $4k if the shop had put forth the R&D itself. I know materials aren't cheap but the price tag on this (plus shipping for most of us) makes it seem like Icarus (the shop) is flying a bit too close to the sun.

Just my opinion, but thanks again ntg44 for everything you did in making this pipe dream come true.

[DanMpower]

I think the issue with most people having sticker shock is that this system costs 2-3x as much as their other exhaust system offerings for the Audi R8s and Porsche 911s which are in a higher class than our M3/M4s.

All their other offerings also look higher quality and harder to produce as well. I know I was a little shocked at the $3800 price tag since I was browsing their website in anticipation of the release and they have some VERY high-quality looking systems, like Eisenmann level looking stuff for between $1100-2600, I figured they would price this system which looks much easier to produce at around the $2000 mark.

Still, we need to give credit where credit is due, thanks to ntg44, spool twice and Top Gear for moving forward with the concept and making it a reality. Kudos to all you guys, we actually have a solution that actually makes a big difference in sound quality. A bit too rich for my blood ATM but I can appreciate all the effort put into this.

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by RSXiMUS

I think the issue with most people having sticker shock is that this system costs 2-3x as much as their other exhaust system offerings for the Audi R8s and Porsche 911s which are in a higher class than our M3/M4s.

All their other offerings also look higher quality and harder to produce as well. I know I was a little shocked at the $3800 price tag since I was browsing their website in anticipation of the release and they have some VERY high-quality looking systems, like Eisenmann level looking stuff for between $1100-2600, I figured they would price this system which looks much easier to produce at around the $2000 mark.

Still, we need to give credit where credit is due, thanks to ntg44, spool twice and Top Gear for moving forward with the concept and making it a reality. Kudos to all you guys, we actually have a solution that actually makes a big difference in sound quality. A bit too rich for my blood ATM but I can appreciate all the effort put into this.

What he said.... looking at their system for the M5 which has full dual cans with carbon tips is priced 1100 LESS than the F80 which is why the price was a little unexpected.

I would need to see more videos and close up pics of the tips before I can commit.

Either way mega thanks to NTG for doing all this for the community. This changed the game...

Alan

[zedtom3]

ntg44
Thank you for your effort! Without you and @spool twice we wouldn’t be where we are today.Some will buy this system
,but some will take it their own way to modify existing systems for better sound.
It’s all your ideas and effort guys !! Thank you

[ASRman]

Huge respect to NTG for actually making this system a reality rather than a mere concept. With that said I not sure why there is so much frustration on his part in hearing of members voicing their (seemingly mutual) opinion that the exhaust is simply overpriced. Instead of venting frustration at us members why not direct that back to top gear who have priced the product incorrectly for this market. I personally do not see many ordering this system for near enough $4,000 no matter how nice it sounds. I would strongly encourage Top Gear to re evaluate their price point certainly in view of the fact that we now have several other companies (including miltek) coming forth announcing plans to develop similar equal length systems.

[zedtom3]

Originally Posted by ASRman

Huge respect to NTG for actually making this system a reality rather than a mere concept. With that said I not sure why there is so much frustration on his part in hearing of members voicing their (seemingly mutual) opinion that the exhaust is simply overpriced. Instead of venting frustration at us members why not direct that back to top gear who have priced the product incorrectly for this market. I personally do not see many ordering this system for near enough $4,000 no matter how nice it sounds. I would strongly encourage Top Gear to re evaluate their price point certainly in view of the fact that we now have several other companies (including miltek) coming forth announcing plans to develop similar equal length systems.

I have spoken to them already on Instagram.
They said due to quality materials and time involved to fabricate the system they can’t offer it cheaper.
Will see if their opinion change after so many people voicing their opinion about it.

[prompt]

Originally Posted by Flange

Yes, currently for the M2C.

Latest from them is the equal length pipes have changed the sound slightly, but they’re also trying a revision to their rear silencer to improve it.

Don’t forget that they are trying to do all this and still keep all the OPF’s and cats in place.

Good to know,I'm about to buy an exhaust for my M2C,

At this point I'll wait a little bit and see what Milltek will release,
fingers crossed for the price

[theweebabySeamus]

Originally Posted by Agonz128

ntg44 Thanks for all you did and working with a local shop to get this put together. Best sounding exhaust for these cars hands down.

Price does seem about $1,000-1,500 higher than I anticipated in light of the fact that you (and other members who contributed) gave the shop a working prototype to simply perfect for mass production. I probably could economically justify the full system at $4k if the shop had put forth the R&D itself. I know materials aren't cheap but the price tag on this (plus shipping for most of us) makes it seem like Icarus (the shop) is flying a bit too close to the sun.

Just my opinion, but thanks again ntg44 for everything you did in making this pipe dream come true.

Keep in mind though, just the bend that sppol twice and ntg44 added could be added to another aftermarket exhaust also.

[Ed_rx7]

Well I’ve just ordered my midpipe. I’m just gonna make do as it’s sounds good enough for me.

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by theweebabySeamus

Keep in mind though, just the bend that sppol twice and ntg44 added could be added to another aftermarket exhaust also.

Your screenname sounds familiar, are you on AZ as well? If so, this is Loe.

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by theweebabySeamus

Keep in mind though, just the bend that sppol twice and ntg44 added could be added to another aftermarket exhaust also.

Yes, but only if you cut out the mid silencer / h-pipe merge box and separate the gas streams then add a new merge AFTER the U bend.

👍

[Tuningservice.no]

Lol all the drama 😂

The japs have been making equal length downpipes merging into one fat single pipe exhaust for their twinturbo japscrap cars for 30 years so there are nothing new about this exhaust setup exept the twin pipes merges all the way in the back because there are simply no space to make equal length downpipes which would give the best result.

Just do a Nissan RB downpipe picture search in Google. Hks, mines, tomei.. All are equal length before they merge.
In addition to a fat single exhaust the engine will make that deep sexy balanced sound.



As for the final product from TopGear i wouldnt buy it because it merges into 3" in stead of 3,5".
This would have no negative effect on cars below around 600 hp, but i don’t want it to be an issue down the road when i’m going to push mine above 600..
Actually i can’t understand why they just put 3,5" on it, making it a non-issue for everybody straight away. Maybe their supplier don’t have a 3,5" silencer or something🤷*♂️

As for the price i think they put it at 4k to stay just below all the other overpriced options on the market.
And let’s face it. Most options on the market is basicly just BMWs own design with less silencers/cats for more shitty S55 noise.

[Frode D]

Originally Posted by Tuningservice.no

As for the final product from TopGear i wouldnt buy it because it merges into 3" in stead of 3,5".
This would have no negative effect on cars below around 600 hp, but i don’t want it to be an issue down the road when i’m going to push mine above 600..
Actually i can’t understand why they just put 3,5" on it, making it a non-issue for everybody straight away. Maybe their supplier don’t have a 3,5" silencer or something🤷*♂️

They did respond to that earlier but I cant find the post.

The answer was that they tried a 3.5" and it gave a hollow sound they didnt like, and this system was meant to change the sound not focusing on high HP.

[ntg44]

Hey all,

Realize I lost my cool a couple days ago. Leaving it there since I own up to my statements, present & past (I hate forum profanity, and broke my own rule). I withdrew from the discussion after my last comment, needed to remove myself from this for a while.

Just wanted to say a few things. First, thanks to all for the supportive comments and Instagram messages after my rant. My frustration wasn't directed at any members on here, but with the fact that how long this project has been in the making, and after it finally released, it instantly being written off by the majority of the same people who were pushing me to make this happen and convinced me my efforts would be worth it. I took it personally, even though I have no financial stake in this project (more on that later), because contrary to what some might believe, I have been in consistent talks with TGM since November, constantly giving feedback on every aspect of the end product. Just take a look around - it looks like I live on here. I've consistently brought up member feedback, and tried to use that to help TGM shape the end result of what they eventually released. I can't stress enough that the members on here helped make the TGM system as it sits today, within their own manufacturing capabilities.

Next, on the price/value proposition. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and I respect that. But just something to think about. As of now, reading from their website, the kit includes:
- Cat back exhaust
- Crush gaskets & new bolts for DP connection
- CG Precision Valve controller
- Resistor plug for 2nd valve cable to remove any soft errors
- Free shipping to US48
- Not a feature, but it's worthwhile to mention that this is indeed made in Chicago suburbs. I've personally met the team who designed and who will be making these, and they really are an awesome, enthusiastic crew.

Make of that what you will, but I encourage you to add up the cost of all those parts and shipping at retail value, subtract it from the shipped out the door price, and make your own judgment. For me personally, I don't think it's as absurd as many seem to believe for what you're getting and considering what else is out there (and none of which sound like this ). But again, everyone has an opinion, so I respect yours, and I'm really not looking to get into a debate with anyone over it.

Finally, since it's been suggested: I am in no way getting a cut from these sales. I would never compromise my member status on this forum nor the integrity to this community just to make a buck. That might be the biggest middle finger I could think of to all of you who've encouraged me to make this happen. Frankly, I'm making much more money doing other things, and want to keep my hobby as a hobby.

I'm aware things over the weekend were said/removed. I heard about a little, but avoided this thread entirely since Friday, and am also not interested in getting back into it. Don't see how it would be productive.

Nobody asked me to write this comment - this was entirely as a response the feedback to my last post. With that said, this will be my last post on this topic. I did what I set out to do, and helped a company get a product out using this community's influence, and see nothing more I can add of value. If you have specific questions you'd want to ask me, send me a PM on here or Instagram, but I won't be actively following this thread after this. I will post videos/sound clips of the exhaust on my YouTube channel (ntg44) and Instagram when it's on my car.

Thanks.

[Ferg]

Originally Posted by ntg44

Am I seeing this correctly? With the valves closed there is only exhaust being ported out one side and then both with the valves open?

[jpsimon]

I appreciate all you’ve done for this project and think the price is justifiable. I ordered it the second it was available. I can’t wait, I have the perfect road to make a video comparison on.

Originally Posted by ntg44

Hey all,

Realize I lost my cool a couple days ago. Leaving it there since I own up to my statements, present & past (I hate forum profanity, and broke my own rule). I withdrew from the discussion after my last comment, needed to remove myself from this for a while.

Just wanted to say a few things. First, thanks to all for the supportive comments and Instagram messages after my rant. My frustration wasn't directed at any members on here, but with the fact that how long this project has been in the making, and after it finally released, it instantly being written off by the majority of the same people who were pushing me to make this happen and convinced me my efforts would be worth it. I took it personally, even though I have no financial stake in this project (more on that later), because contrary to what some might believe, I have been in consistent talks with TGM since November, constantly giving feedback on every aspect of the end product. Just take a look around - it looks like I live on here. I've consistently brought up member feedback, and tried to use that to help TGM shape the end result of what they eventually released. I can't stress enough that the members on here helped make the TGM system as it sits today, within their own manufacturing capabilities.

Next, on the price/value proposition. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and I respect that. But just something to think about. As of now, reading from their website, the kit includes:
- Cat back exhaust
- Crush gaskets & new bolts for DP connection
- CG Precision Valve controller
- Resistor plug for 2nd valve cable to remove any soft errors
- Free shipping to US48
- Not a feature, but it's worthwhile to mention that this is indeed made in Chicago suburbs. I've personally met the team who designed and who will be making these, and they really are an awesome, enthusiastic crew.

Make of that what you will, but I encourage you to add up the cost of all those parts and shipping at retail value, subtract it from the shipped out the door price, and make your own judgment. For me personally, I don't think it's as absurd as many seem to believe for what you're getting and considering what else is out there (and none of which sound like this ). But again, everyone has an opinion, so I respect yours, and I'm really not looking to get into a debate with anyone over it.

Finally, since it's been suggested: I am in no way getting a cut from these sales. I would never compromise my member status on this forum nor the integrity to this community just to make a buck. That might be the biggest middle finger I could think of to all of you who've encouraged me to make this happen. Frankly, I'm making much more money doing other things, and want to keep my hobby as a hobby.

I'm aware things over the weekend were said/removed. I heard about a little, but avoided this thread entirely since Friday, and am also not interested in getting back into it. Don't see how it would be productive.

Nobody asked me to write this comment - this was entirely as a response the feedback to my last post. With that said, this will be my last post on this topic. I did what I set out to do, and helped a company get a product out using this community's influence, and see nothing more I can add of value. If you have specific questions you'd want to ask me, send me a PM on here or Instagram, but I won't be actively following this thread after this. I will post videos/sound clips of the exhaust on my YouTube channel (ntg44) and Instagram when it's on my car.

Thanks.

[ASRman]

Originally Posted by ntg44

Hey all,

Realize I lost my cool a couple days ago. Leaving it there since I own up to my statements, present & past (I hate forum profanity, and broke my own rule). I withdrew from the discussion after my last comment, needed to remove myself from this for a while.

Just wanted to say a few things. First, thanks to all for the supportive comments and Instagram messages after my rant. My frustration wasn't directed at any members on here, but with the fact that how long this project has been in the making, and after it finally released, it instantly being written off by the majority of the same people who were pushing me to make this happen and convinced me my efforts would be worth it. I took it personally, even though I have no financial stake in this project (more on that later), because contrary to what some might believe, I have been in consistent talks with TGM since November, constantly giving feedback on every aspect of the end product. Just take a look around - it looks like I live on here. I've consistently brought up member feedback, and tried to use that to help TGM shape the end result of what they eventually released. I can't stress enough that the members on here helped make the TGM system as it sits today, within their own manufacturing capabilities.

Next, on the price/value proposition. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and I respect that. But just something to think about. As of now, reading from their website, the kit includes:
- Cat back exhaust
- Crush gaskets & new bolts for DP connection
- CG Precision Valve controller
- Resistor plug for 2nd valve cable to remove any soft errors
- Free shipping to US48
- Not a feature, but it's worthwhile to mention that this is indeed made in Chicago suburbs. I've personally met the team who designed and who will be making these, and they really are an awesome, enthusiastic crew.

Make of that what you will, but I encourage you to add up the cost of all those parts and shipping at retail value, subtract it from the shipped out the door price, and make your own judgment. For me personally, I don't think it's as absurd as many seem to believe for what you're getting and considering what else is out there (and none of which sound like this ). But again, everyone has an opinion, so I respect yours, and I'm really not looking to get into a debate with anyone over it.

Finally, since it's been suggested: I am in no way getting a cut from these sales. I would never compromise my member status on this forum nor the integrity to this community just to make a buck. That might be the biggest middle finger I could think of to all of you who've encouraged me to make this happen. Frankly, I'm making much more money doing other things, and want to keep my hobby as a hobby.

I'm aware things over the weekend were said/removed. I heard about a little, but avoided this thread entirely since Friday, and am also not interested in getting back into it. Don't see how it would be productive.

Nobody asked me to write this comment - this was entirely as a response the feedback to my last post. With that said, this will be my last post on this topic. I did what I set out to do, and helped a company get a product out using this community's influence, and see nothing more I can add of value. If you have specific questions you'd want to ask me, send me a PM on here or Instagram, but I won't be actively following this thread after this. I will post videos/sound clips of the exhaust on my YouTube channel (ntg44) and Instagram when it's on my car.

Thanks.

Appreciate the post and appreciate even more the time and effort you have undertaken (with no personal incentives financially) in helping TGM develop this system. One thing we can all agree on is irrespective of the price, you have massively contributed towards creating the best sounding system currently available for F8X M3/4s. For that alone hats off to you. Any other members waiting for other companies to bring out more affordable solutions must still realise that those solutions will only have been made possible through the continous efforts of NTG44 and others

[dheanswer]

Originally Posted by ntg44

Hey all,

I've been following this thread and the other thread before this and I really appreciate your efforts. You're definitely a trailblazer. I wouldn't worry about the things that you can't control.

You have one of the best sounding exhausts for this platform!

[ra2289]

Originally Posted by ntg44

Hey all...

Like others have said, your efforts are truly appreciated. Equal length exhausts are what this car desperately needed and you are responsible for bringing the only available production model to the market for others to purchase/enjoy. We have an option we never had before because of you, that's a big deal. I understand some of your frustration. Sucks that you're leaving the thread you were/are instrumental in—but I get it. If I personally contributed to that in any way my apologies as it was not my intention.

[aBMWfan]

I’ve been following this thread since day 1. I also attempted the equal length midpipe myself.

Just want to let everyone know:

1. The price is right for this system. It includes a lot of components and the R & D factor is there. They took months to build this system. It costs lots of opportunity cost to do that. Many $3k+ exhausts like Fabspeed are made in China. This is going to be American made. And as said above most exhausts take the factory design. How about complain to Akrapovic and Eisenmann as well as others for half-assing their work yet charging double what this system costs. I believe these and other companies sort of ruined this platform and now it needs to recover from the laziness and profit driven tactics of these reputable companies. (On the other hand, AWE has always been great, +1 to AWE for creating the best catback exhaust off the bat) Remus made the best axelback part. +1 to AA for their midpipe

2. The Stock muffler has sound issues in certain frequencies. This is why they opted for a full system, knowing they would probably make more money and sales just doing a midpipe

3. For those that can’t justify the price, you can either buy a AWE track exhaust now or wait months for another system to be released. I think for a $60k+ car and the reputation for poor exhaust sound, that would be enough to convince you.

4. Thank you OP for the amount of time you sacrificed your vehicle for this cause. Your frustrations last week are partly justified but we also relish opportunities to learn from experiences. You definitely deserve a very deep discount on your system and tbh if this was your design you can take your percentage if you want to.

5. I would be curious how this sounds with Catless DP

6. Look forward to you guys installing this system and post your videos