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      03-04-2015, 10:22 PM   #1
volkl23
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Multi-point harness options for M3/M4

I'm doing an HPDE event this spring with the PCA and was looking at multi-point harness with Hans options. I'm a total beginner, so do I even need one or should I just stick with the stock seat belts? Are there even options available right now for the f80/f82 platform?

Thanks in advance!
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      03-04-2015, 10:41 PM   #2
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You don't need one, stick with the safety systems designed for the car until you advance, then if you do decide to get more safety, do it all. Don't do safety half-ass
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      03-04-2015, 11:02 PM   #3
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^This, although you're to be applauded for thinking about safety first.

In general, a Hans and 6-point harness would be added when you put a roll cage in your car.
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      03-04-2015, 11:16 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volkl23
I'm doing an HPDE event this spring with the PCA and was looking at multi-point harness with Hans options. I'm a total beginner, so do I even need one or should I just stick with the stock seat belts? Are there even options available right now for the f80/f82 platform?

Thanks in advance!
I'll be at Roebling raceway with the PCA in April first time also very exited. When are you going?
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      03-05-2015, 04:20 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaynardZed View Post
^This, although you're to be applauded for thinking about safety first.

In general, a Hans and 6-point harness would be added when you put a roll cage in your car.
AND a seat! Otherwise your back will be long gone since the seat will fold but the harness will hold you in place.
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      03-05-2015, 11:59 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Gac101177 View Post
I'll be at Roebling raceway with the PCA in April first time also very exited. When are you going?
I'm going in middle of April at Gateway Motorsports Park in St Louis. I'm very excited too!
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      03-05-2015, 12:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaynardZed View Post
^This, although you're to be applauded for thinking about safety first.

In general, a Hans and 6-point harness would be added when you put a roll cage in your car.
Since there's an integrated headrest, does that mean there won't be an easy solution for a harness system that doesn't rely on a rollcage (Quickfits) as there's no proper way to have the harness pass through?
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      03-05-2015, 12:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volkl23 View Post
Since there's an integrated headrest, does that mean there won't be an easy solution for a harness system that doesn't rely on a rollcage (Quickfits) as there's no proper way to have the harness pass through?
I've researched this many times and I always come to the same conclusion. If you are going to harness yourself upright, you really need to have at least a half roll-cage, 5 or 6 point harnesses, one-piece seats, and a hans device.

Think about this, in a rollover scenario where the roof crumples, would you want to be harnessed in the upright position? If you stick with oem seatbelts, your body will at least have room to fall forward in this unfortunate event.

There is something to be said about not having to brace yourself around every turn but I don't think harnessing yourself in without proper safety equipment is the right answer. You might consider installing a seat that holds your body in place better and works with the OEM seatbelt, not sure what a good option might be there though.
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      03-05-2015, 01:04 PM   #9
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Yes, goes without saying you'd need a race seat to make use of harness. I wish BMW would of had a race seat option with belt passthroughs similar to option on GT3 and Z06. Maybe if competition model comes out?

As for now, if you know how to lock yourself in with the 3 point belt it does help a lot. I can't find the video of it but basically you recline the seat a bit, buckle the belt and then pull quickly on it a few inches from your chest. Keeping constant tension on the belt with right hand, use left hand to put seat upright until it's very snug on your chest/shoulder. I usually do this while waiting on the grid. Make sure your gloves are near as you won't be able to lean over too far.
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      03-05-2015, 01:28 PM   #10
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For a beginner I would recommend sticking with the OEM seats and the 3 point belt. If you ever want to get better bolstering, but want to keep a 3 point belt, Recaro and Corbeau make some great sport seats.
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      03-24-2015, 09:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mobbin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by volkl23
Since there's an integrated headrest, does that mean there won't be an easy solution for a harness system that doesn't rely on a rollcage (Quickfits) as there's no proper way to have the harness pass through?
I've researched this many times and I always come to the same conclusion. If you are going to harness yourself upright, you really need to have at least a half roll-cage, 5 or 6 point harnesses, one-piece seats, and a hans device.

Think about this, in a rollover scenario where the roof crumples, would you want to be harnessed in the upright position? If you stick with oem seatbelts, your body will at least have room to fall forward in this unfortunate event.
The above is a popular well-articulated, conservative approach.
I have a different tack with HMS's Schroth ASM quick-connect belts for 3 reasons:
1). ASM allows degree of sideways movement in an emergency
2). I care about getting my but well connected to the car so that I can fell what it's doing, and be better positioned to prevent emergencies before they happen. To me, it's a trade-off between pro-active preventative safety, and passive safety.
3). I'm getting older, and am putting additional value on comfort and avoiding needless exhaustion. Being properly (and I would argue safely) tied to my OEM seat keeps my upper body from getting a heavy workout during a DE/autoX weekend. That, in turn, allows my head and my reflexes to keep working better towards the end of the session. Occasionally, I test drive other cars, and bracing yourself with arms and legs when only supported by a 3-point OEM belt is pretty tiring and distracting !

I would not impose the above approach onto others, but it has worked for me for the past 20 years with the following belt system:
http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/store/s.../quick-fit-bmw

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mobbin View Post
There is something to be said about not having to brace yourself around every turn but I don't think harnessing yourself in without proper safety equipment is the right answer. You might consider installing a seat that holds your body in place better and works with the OEM seatbelt, not sure what a good option might be there though.
See above.

YMMV,
a
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      03-24-2015, 09:36 PM   #12
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I have used a CG lock (google it) and it works fine with stock seat belts. When I installed my first car seat for my kids I found out that seat belt locking clips that come with car seats do the same thing!
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      03-24-2015, 09:41 PM   #13
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Do these belts work with the seats on the F8X cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
The above is a popular well-articulated, conservative approach.
I have a different tack with HMS's Schroth ASM quick-connect belts for 3 reasons:
1). ASM allows degree of sideways movement in an emergency
2). I care about getting my but well connected to the car so that I can fell what it's doing, and be better positioned to prevent emergencies before they happen. To me, it's a trade-off between pro-active preventative safety, and passive safety.
3). I'm getting older, and am putting additional value on comfort and avoiding needless exhaustion. Being properly (and I would argue safely) tied to my OEM seat keeps my upper body from getting a heavy workout during a DE/autoX weekend. That, in turn, allows my head and my reflexes to keep working better towards the end of the session. Occasionally, I test drive other cars, and bracing yourself with arms and legs when only supported by a 3-point OEM belt is pretty tiring and distracting !

I would not impose the above approach onto others, but it has worked for me for the past 20 years with the following belt system:
http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/store/s.../quick-fit-bmw



See above.

YMMV,
a
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      03-26-2015, 09:28 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3NetNerd View Post
Do these belts work with the seats on the F8X cars?
I finally got through to HMS last night.
The belts could work, but the M3/4 seats will not.

To safely install, position, and keep the belts over driver's shoulders, you need to rout them through the top of the seat. Seat-belt cut-outs in racing seats work perfectly, in-between head rest posts works well enough.

Alas, F80/82 front seats have integrated head rests with #@$%^#$ lit-up M-emblems, but no cut outs for the shoulder belts. Even Mercedes C63 has shoulder belt cut outs, but not M3/4. Thus the only safe way to have any racing belts installed in M3/4 is to either make cuts in OEM seats, or install racing seats.

a
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      10-03-2016, 05:13 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
I finally got through to HMS last night.
The belts could work, but the M3/4 seats will not.

To safely install, position, and keep the belts over driver's shoulders, you need to rout them through the top of the seat. Seat-belt cut-outs in racing seats work perfectly, in-between head rest posts works well enough.

Alas, F80/82 front seats have integrated head rests with #@$%^#$ lit-up M-emblems, but no cut outs for the shoulder belts. Even Mercedes C63 has shoulder belt cut outs, but not M3/4. Thus the only safe way to have any racing belts installed in M3/4 is to either make cuts in OEM seats, or install racing seats.

a
Old thread but what about for the GTS with the roll bar there already? Will they work better being connect to the roll bar higher up?
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      10-04-2016, 10:10 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWM3 View Post
Old thread but what about for the GTS with the roll bar there already? Will they work better being connect to the roll bar higher up?
Can't comment on GTS (I can't have a car with a roll bar while kids are in the back seats), but regular F8x can be made to work with Schroth ASM quick-connect belts:


http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/alb...ictureid=61137

The belts ocassionally slide off to the side of the head rest when not in use, but are held firmly in place over shoulders when buckled in.

YMMV,
a
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      10-04-2016, 10:24 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3NetNerd View Post
I have used a CG lock (google it) and it works fine with stock seat belts. When I installed my first car seat for my kids I found out that seat belt locking clips that come with car seats do the same thing!
This, the CG Lock is amazing compliment to keeping you planted with a stock belt until you can go all the way fixed seats/roll bar/harnesses/HNR (at the same time). I used one for years until I was able to go all the way.

Very impressed with the quality informed decisions on here... I remember a similar m3 forum a few years back suggesting the worst and dangerous solutions.
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      10-04-2016, 10:31 AM   #18
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Me, personally, I'd never put 4, 5, or 6 pt harnesses in a car without a proper race seat. It's easy to remove and install another seat, but then you have an issue with where to attach the harnesses. I've seen harness bars from manufacturers such as Brey-Krause for Porsche, but not sure about BMW.
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      10-04-2016, 11:20 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
Can't comment on GTS (I can't have a car with a roll bar while kids are in the back seats), but regular F8x can be made to work with Schroth ASM quick-connect belts:


http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/alb...ictureid=61137

The belts ocassionally slide off to the side of the head rest when not in use, but are held firmly in place over shoulders when buckled in.

YMMV,
a
I emailed HMS Motorsport about this as well and got the following response:

"We have been trying to help several owners of the new M3/M4 chassis, and unfortunately, with the 1-piece factory seats (which do not have shoulder belt pass throughs), there is not a safe way in which to route the shoulder belts on this seat. All of the models we have rely on the shoulder belts either a) passing through the center headrest or b) passing through the shoulder belt pass through holes.

So bottom line is that without shoulder belt pass throughs (i.e changing the seats completely) there is not a Schroth belt that can be safely installed"

Sounds like I'll have to stick to the stock seat belts and look into the CG Lock.
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      10-05-2016, 02:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWM3 View Post
Sounds like I'll have to stick to the stock seat belts and look into the CG Lock.
They make some very nice seats you might consider if you track often enough, LINK.
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      10-06-2016, 09:26 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvaughan View Post
Me, personally, I'd never put 4, 5, or 6 pt harnesses in a car without a proper race seat.
Actually - I would never put a proper 4/5/6 point harness in a car without a roll bar or a proper cage.
Race seat is false safety - seat back does not provide any serious roof support protection, and that is exactly the weakness roll bar/cage are aiming to remedy.

The only reason I'm willing to do that with Scroth ASM 4-point is due to their ASM (anti-sub-marining) fold that is designed to let go and turn the harness into a 3-point in cash of a major crash.

To each his own.

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      05-21-2018, 07:32 PM   #22
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Sorry to post on a 1-1/2 year old thread, but I see no updates on this topic.

To get my wife's M3 ready for a 2nd year of track duty, I cursed the stock seats and worked on a solution. Since I have three track cars (E28, C6 Vette and Camaro) with full roll cages and racing seats, plus an E92, and various new and expired racing harnesses, I could experiment.

First, I have confirmed that the Corbeau Custom Seat bracket for the E92 fits the F80 perfectly.
Second, while the Corbeau FX1 seat fits fine, the narrow one is better because the wide one rubs on the tunnel.
With that combo, you might want to add 1-1/2" of spacers to the rear mounts and 3/4" to the front to bring the seat up to a typical OEM height.

The Schroth set belts for an E92 won't fit any aftermarket seat perfectly because there is no buckle at the tunnel; an extender would need to be added/fabricated. That would be a reasonable solution.

Not wanting to deal with the extender (and returning the Corbeau seat to the correct car), I ended up installing the driver's seat from my 2017 330i Wagon (winter car) into the M3. This way the stock 3-point belt and fully adjustable seat is there for comfortable driving, and the Schroth 4-point can be snapped in at the track.

A better solution will be a 5-point with the shoulder straps connected to the rear shelf, but that will wait for another time.

It sure is annoying that the M2 has racing compatible seats and the M3 does not.
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