BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > BMW M3 (F80) and BMW M4 (F82) General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-02-2014, 05:56 AM   #67
Falafel Combo
Banned
United_States
3767
Rep
6,673
Posts

Drives: X5 xDrive50i
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New England

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FogCityM3 View Post
Seems to be a lot of misconception about what "turbo lag" is. Listen to this excellent explanation by Steve Dinan starting at 42 mins.

http://dinancars.com/steve-dinan-int...-tire-podcast/

Good explanation. Here's what I took away:


"It's hard to differentiate between the two to be honest."

...

"They're connected in such a way that you can't get one without the other."

...

"What you feel, you know, it feels like turbo lag, no matter what you're calling it."

...

(They're being pedantic for the sake of being pedantic) "Exactly". They're being youtube commentators (forum frequenters).


-Steve Dinan


Appreciate 0
      12-02-2014, 05:57 AM   #68
Falafel Combo
Banned
United_States
3767
Rep
6,673
Posts

Drives: X5 xDrive50i
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New England

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Money2536 View Post
Good stuff. So let's call it "poor turbo response at low RPM."

I don't know, that doesn't seem very accurate either. It will probably please more people.
Appreciate 0
      12-02-2014, 07:46 AM   #69
Dalko43
Captain
172
Rep
894
Posts

Drives: 2011 Toyota 4Runner Trail
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Upstate NY

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw View Post
Bimmer fan boy or not your mashing on the throttle in to low of a gear. Once you get in this cars power band(which isn't that high) it doesn't stop. I have 6600 miles in two months. I drive extremly hard. There is no lag. Period
The new M3/M4 is a turbo car. The turbo's have to spool up when you press the accelerator.

There is turbo lag. It is slight, but it is still there.

There is no need to get so defensive about it. Anyone who knows anything about turbo cars acknowledges this; there are so many added benefits to turbo-charging, that most people don't care about the lag.
Appreciate 0
      12-02-2014, 08:24 AM   #70
Krish_1
Second Lieutenant
Krish_1's Avatar
United_States
116
Rep
240
Posts

Drives: '18 IR F80
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

OP has two M3s, he is very helpful (Saw his video about exhaust valves), and his post wasn't douchey. He qualified it by saying he loves the car, and just wanted to get it off his chest about the turbo lag. Not much more you can ask of a person on a forum.


Just my 2 cents, and in my opinion.
Appreciate 0
      12-02-2014, 08:37 AM   #71
ASAP
Major General
ASAP's Avatar
10050
Rep
8,560
Posts

Drives: '23 X3 M40i
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Money2536
Some BMW fanboys are so defensive and immediately attack rather than coming up with an intelligent argument. This doesn't happen on most other forums.

OP, I think about all the reviews I've read stating there is no turbo lag every time I drive the car and wonder if maybe they were only hammering on the car. I have a very noticeable amount of lag. Just roll on the throttle in any gear. I think some people are so in love with their car that they cannot fathom that it's not perfect.

I've been thinking about this car a lot. I think it looks fantastic, the interior is great; but this car doesn't even come close to feeling special like my E92 M3. This car is a very nice, fast car that I'll daily drive and then discard in a few years.
Interesting... sounds like you got rid of your e92 as well...
__________________
2 x N54 -> 1 x N55 -> 1 x S55-> 1 x B58
Appreciate 0
      12-02-2014, 10:05 AM   #72
Tonymiabmw
Colonel
Tonymiabmw's Avatar
552
Rep
2,633
Posts

Drives: Nardo F90 M5 on order
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: In Transit

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalko43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw View Post
Bimmer fan boy or not your mashing on the throttle in to low of a gear. Once you get in this cars power band(which isn't that high) it doesn't stop. I have 6600 miles in two months. I drive extremly hard. There is no lag. Period
The new M3/M4 is a turbo car. The turbo's have to spool up when you press the accelerator.

There is turbo lag. It is slight, but it is still there.

There is no need to get so defensive about it. Anyone who knows anything about turbo cars acknowledges this; there are so many added benefits to turbo-charging, that most people don't care about the lag.
You don't have to spool the turbo if your in the proper gear it's already spooled.
Appreciate 0
      12-02-2014, 10:19 AM   #73
Jacky Treehorn
Private First Class
135
Rep
115
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Interesting... sounds like you got rid of your e92 as well...
That's probably typical of people who have enough disposable income to own several high end sports cars. Not all of us can buy porsches and bmws like they are trading cards.

For someone actually really excited and interested to buy this car, hearing someone say something like "oh, it's nothing special....it's fast, just nothing amazing...I'll discard it in a few years" is hard to hear.

I don't have the money to lose on a car that I'll be unhappy with and is "discard-able." I'd rather just forgo my desires to own it and just keep the 40k that I'd probably lose on the purchase depreciation of a new car. I hate this forum sometimes and what it does to my head...
Appreciate 0
      12-02-2014, 10:27 AM   #74
ASAP
Major General
ASAP's Avatar
10050
Rep
8,560
Posts

Drives: '23 X3 M40i
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacky Treehorn
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Interesting... sounds like you got rid of your e92 as well...
That's probably typical of people who have enough disposable income to own several high end sports cars. Not all of us can buy porsches and bmws like they are trading cards.

For someone actually really excited and interested to buy this car, hearing someone say something like "oh, it's nothing special....it's fast, just nothing amazing...I'll discard it in a few years" is hard to hear.

I don't have the money to lose on a car that I'll be unhappy with and is "discard-able." I'd rather just forgo my desires to own it and just keep the 40k that I'd probably lose on the purchase depreciation of a new car. I hate this forum sometimes and what it does to my head...
Its a typical non appreciative attitude that typically only comes from A) having too much $$$ as you said or B) having ADD.

Neither one can really be changed.
__________________
2 x N54 -> 1 x N55 -> 1 x S55-> 1 x B58
Appreciate 0
      12-02-2014, 02:02 PM   #75
Hoopumpers
Captain
Hoopumpers's Avatar
113
Rep
672
Posts

Drives: M2 Comp
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
73 911 RSR  [0.00]
04 996 Cup  [0.00]
06 997 Cup  [0.00]
12 Boxster Spyder ( ...  [0.00]
15 Sierra HD Denali  [0.00]
16 GT3RS  [0.00]
17 Radical SR3  [0.00]
18 Model X  [0.00]
18 GT350R  [0.00]
19 M2 Comp  [0.00]
What would be interesting would be a constructive discussion about downpipes and their effect on throttle response.

It made the F10 M5 much more responsive. Assuming same upside to F8x. Owners of dp installed cars care to share results?
Appreciate 0
      12-02-2014, 10:15 PM   #76
dclowd9901
Captain
dclowd9901's Avatar
United_States
120
Rep
616
Posts

Drives: 2015 AW M3
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krish_1 View Post
OP has two M3s, he is very helpful (Saw his video about exhaust valves), and his post wasn't douchey. He qualified it by saying he loves the car, and just wanted to get it off his chest about the turbo lag. Not much more you can ask of a person on a forum.

Just my 2 cents, and in my opinion.
I think something you don't consider is that people come to forums exactly like these to figure out what their next big purchase is going to be.

Here are the facts:

1) Every reviewer and professional driver who has touched this car has denoted that the car has turbos, but does not seem to have turbo lag.

2) The car's torque curve is such that it reaches maximum torque at about 4k rpm, but builds to it starting from just above *idling*. its torque curve is far more aggressive and comes on much sooner than the E9x.

3) A quick review of this thread indicates that most people either believe that the F8x has negligible turbo lag, or none whatsoever. The ones who are experiencing the negligible turbo lag are probably either just experiencing standard engine momentum build, or have accidentally left MDM on, or are mashing on a still-standing car.

So to any external observers trying to make a decision, my message to you is this: OP is in the miniscule minority with his opinion.
__________________
ED 11/3/14 2015 M3, AW, SO, DCT, 19" blk wheels, HK, Lighting/Exec/Tech packages, ad. susp.

Last edited by dclowd9901; 12-02-2014 at 10:23 PM..
Appreciate 0
      12-02-2014, 10:32 PM   #77
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
I have to agree with the OP. I have posted it myself on a few occasions, the S55 has turbo lag. There is no denying it.

When you run at constant Speed/RPM and mash the throttle, there is a delay before full power comes on. This is true regardless of mode (Efficient or Sport+) or RPM (2000 or 5000RPM). I have tried it in all modes and at different RPM, the lag is there, period.

With the S54 or S65 in my previous M3s, doing the same test would result in almost instant response from the engine in providing the available power for that engine speed.

Now, that being said, does the lag bother me on my M4? No, not one iota. The test mentioned above does not apply to the response I need or expect in either my DD or use at the track. In Sport or Sport+, the engine reacts to perfection to throttle modulation while cornering. The power delivery is very linear and predictable. The anti-lag wizardry does work its magic and allows the engine to precisely respond to the inputs of my right foot in the conditions I need it to. (Note: while I enjoy Efficient mode for the DD, I find the throttle response sluggish and the power delivery unpredictable for track use is this mode). Despite my early apprehensions, I am perfectly happy with the throttle response of the S55.
Appreciate 0
      12-02-2014, 10:57 PM   #78
SapphireSiC
Private First Class
SapphireSiC's Avatar
21
Rep
112
Posts

Drives: 2015 M4
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I have to agree with the OP. I have posted it myself on a few occasions, the S55 has turbo lag. There is no denying it.
Amen, brother. Amen. All turbo cars have lag. The engineers are tasked with minimizing it. They have done a great job with the S55. Drive a diesel turbo, a supercharged engine, and a naturally aspirated engine and you will learn how to notice the lag. ("MDM" LOL) Those looking to auto writers for knowledge are sheep.
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2014, 02:38 AM   #79
ES_TRADER
Colonel
343
Rep
2,928
Posts

Drives: 328i, 335i, M3, 535i, X5, 36M
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: OC

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2014 Ford Raptor  [0.00]
2012 328i E92  [10.00]
2013 X5  [0.00]
2013 335i F30  [8.00]
1990 Toyota Previa  [0.00]
1997 E36 M3  [10.00]
2011 E92 M3  [0.00]
2011 535i  [0.00]
I've driven the f80 for a full day now and felt zero lag, in fact I feel like the s55 loves to rev and easily it does so. I tried to feel this lag that you all speak of but its just not there in my car. I don't get all this fussing
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2014, 03:06 AM   #80
CSL_E36
Private First Class
CSL_E36's Avatar
United_States
60
Rep
198
Posts

Drives: 96' S54 E36 ///M3 17' M2
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dublin CA

iTrader: (0)

In an F80 @ 3000 rpm you snap the throttle open, you hear the "click" from the back of the pedal hitting the floor, and proceed to surge forward leaving you feeling sucked in your seat, not thrown in your seat.

Thats throttle response and a turbo car will never duplicate a ITB NA "feel".
__________________
*1996 S54 E36 M3* •2017 F87 M2•
Sold: 07' e90 335i, 08' e92 M3
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2014, 03:15 PM   #81
ASAP
Major General
ASAP's Avatar
10050
Rep
8,560
Posts

Drives: '23 X3 M40i
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

I think we all need to drive NA Direct Inject Individual Throttle Body 7.0L V8s with Cylinder Deactivation that can average 35 MPG. And they should rev to 9K while producing a minimum of 400 Lb Ft of torque down low... I think I just made everyone happy.
__________________
2 x N54 -> 1 x N55 -> 1 x S55-> 1 x B58
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2014, 03:21 PM   #82
Vigilant
Captain
Vigilant's Avatar
United_States
305
Rep
868
Posts

Drives: Cautiously fast
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
I think we all need to drive NA Direct Inject Individual Throttle Body 7.0L V8s with Cylinder Deactivation that can average 35 MPG. And they should rev to 9K while producing a minimum of 400 Lb Ft of torque down low... I think I just made everyone happy.
That still won't work with CAFE restrictions that take hold in 2050...
__________________


2022 BSM G80 Comp X-drive
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2014, 03:23 PM   #83
TahoeM3
Major
408
Rep
1,025
Posts

Drives: F-type R, GTR, X5 50i
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tampa, Fl

iTrader: (0)

Obviously turbos need to be spooled up before they can provide boost, so throttle modulation is key. If you are going at a steady state or stopped and then press the accelerator, there will be a delay...however brief...before the boost kicks in. In this car it is minimal and comparable to the GT-R. If you want to feel turbo lag, drive a 1977 930 turbo...or even a 997 turbo.

If you drive aggressively, keeping the turbos spooled, there will be no lag. That's why the the reviewers haven't had any lag...they are driving the cars harder than most of us do on the street.

For me, I'd take the minimal lag over a NA engine with no torque. The reference to the Ferrari is inaccurate because that car weighs much less than an e92. You really feel the lack of torque when you're trying to move around 3700-4100 lbs.
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2014, 03:44 PM   #84
///M///
Brigadier General
///M///'s Avatar
1861
Rep
3,661
Posts

Drives: 2016 Manual AW F80
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Philly

iTrader: (6)

Nothing like the sound of a wastegate opening up I miss that.
__________________
=========================
2016 F80 M3 AW/SO (Manual) - Picked up at the Welt 08/28/15

My Amazing European Delivery Story
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2014, 07:45 PM   #85
jerseygirl
Private First Class
3
Rep
133
Posts

Drives: 2010 e92 m3
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: new jersey

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Accel Junky View Post
I LOVE my F80 M3. It combines some great things about most of the 35+ vehicles I have owned. But, I just have to get this off my chest.

I read just about every review from the press and from individuals and watched every video I could. The majority of these outright proclaimed turbo lag was either eliminated or virtually eliminated or greatly reduced or barely present.

I've owned a lot of turbo cars. Some factory, some aftermarket, some small turbos, some big turbos, some singles, some twins, some sequential, some non-sequential.

I can absolutely detect the turbo lag in this car. It is plain as day to me. I do not think there is anything remarkable about the lag reduction. That's OK. I bought a turbo car...I knew that going in. But let's not kid ourselves...
if it has lag then i dont buy thanks for the heads up.
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2014, 07:54 PM   #86
Accel Junky
High on Acceleration
Accel Junky's Avatar
United_States
671
Rep
1,439
Posts

Drives: 08 M3, 90 GTR, 21 Gladiator
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Georgia, USA

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseygirl View Post
if it has lag then i dont buy thanks for the heads up.
I wouldn't take it that far. It's an awesome car. Just don't believe the hype unless you are driving everywhere with the needle buried
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2014, 01:18 AM   #87
Lups
...
Lups's Avatar
11820
Rep
15,400
Posts

Drives: I don't own a car.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Lost as usual

iTrader: (0)

It could be a manual thing, but if I feel any lag, it's because I'm fucking it up. If I leave the lights on second, sure, it takes a bit to get it going. if I press it down on the fourth going on 10 miles an hour, yes, it sleeps.

I don't know what kind of cars you guys have driven all your lives, but I tend to find the fault from my actions. With mine, I'm usually a gear too low, but that's just rally pushing from the roots.

Now, E92 guys, tell me the car is a rocket if not driven right.

Just saying as usual...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
You're still a little new here, so I'll let you in on a little secret. Whenever Lups types gibberish, this is an opportunity for you to imagine it to be whatever you'd like it to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
How would you know this? Did mommy catch you jerking off to some Big Foot porn ?
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2014, 06:31 AM   #88
Accel Junky
High on Acceleration
Accel Junky's Avatar
United_States
671
Rep
1,439
Posts

Drives: 08 M3, 90 GTR, 21 Gladiator
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Georgia, USA

iTrader: (6)

Driving this morning...yep the lag is still there. Punch it at 2k, 3k, 4k, 5k, 6k...yep the turbos still have to spool. Upshifting at redline? Of course there is no lag. Even my NSX with big old-school turbo tech, a BOV instead of recirc, and twice-longer charge piping has instant response on full throttle rev limit upshifts. Same displacement.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
f80, f82, lag, review, turbo

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:50 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST