12-02-2014, 05:56 AM | #67 | |
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Good explanation. Here's what I took away: "It's hard to differentiate between the two to be honest." ... "They're connected in such a way that you can't get one without the other." ... "What you feel, you know, it feels like turbo lag, no matter what you're calling it." ... (They're being pedantic for the sake of being pedantic) "Exactly". They're being youtube commentators (forum frequenters). -Steve Dinan |
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12-02-2014, 05:57 AM | #68 |
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12-02-2014, 07:46 AM | #69 | |
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There is turbo lag. It is slight, but it is still there. There is no need to get so defensive about it. Anyone who knows anything about turbo cars acknowledges this; there are so many added benefits to turbo-charging, that most people don't care about the lag. |
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12-02-2014, 08:24 AM | #70 |
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OP has two M3s, he is very helpful (Saw his video about exhaust valves), and his post wasn't douchey. He qualified it by saying he loves the car, and just wanted to get it off his chest about the turbo lag. Not much more you can ask of a person on a forum.
Just my 2 cents, and in my opinion. |
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12-02-2014, 08:37 AM | #71 | |
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12-02-2014, 10:05 AM | #72 | ||
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12-02-2014, 10:19 AM | #73 |
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That's probably typical of people who have enough disposable income to own several high end sports cars. Not all of us can buy porsches and bmws like they are trading cards.
For someone actually really excited and interested to buy this car, hearing someone say something like "oh, it's nothing special....it's fast, just nothing amazing...I'll discard it in a few years" is hard to hear. I don't have the money to lose on a car that I'll be unhappy with and is "discard-able." I'd rather just forgo my desires to own it and just keep the 40k that I'd probably lose on the purchase depreciation of a new car. I hate this forum sometimes and what it does to my head... |
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12-02-2014, 10:27 AM | #74 | |
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Neither one can really be changed.
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12-02-2014, 02:02 PM | #75 |
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What would be interesting would be a constructive discussion about downpipes and their effect on throttle response.
It made the F10 M5 much more responsive. Assuming same upside to F8x. Owners of dp installed cars care to share results? |
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12-02-2014, 10:15 PM | #76 | |
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Here are the facts: 1) Every reviewer and professional driver who has touched this car has denoted that the car has turbos, but does not seem to have turbo lag. 2) The car's torque curve is such that it reaches maximum torque at about 4k rpm, but builds to it starting from just above *idling*. its torque curve is far more aggressive and comes on much sooner than the E9x. 3) A quick review of this thread indicates that most people either believe that the F8x has negligible turbo lag, or none whatsoever. The ones who are experiencing the negligible turbo lag are probably either just experiencing standard engine momentum build, or have accidentally left MDM on, or are mashing on a still-standing car. So to any external observers trying to make a decision, my message to you is this: OP is in the miniscule minority with his opinion.
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12-02-2014, 10:32 PM | #77 |
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I have to agree with the OP. I have posted it myself on a few occasions, the S55 has turbo lag. There is no denying it.
When you run at constant Speed/RPM and mash the throttle, there is a delay before full power comes on. This is true regardless of mode (Efficient or Sport+) or RPM (2000 or 5000RPM). I have tried it in all modes and at different RPM, the lag is there, period. With the S54 or S65 in my previous M3s, doing the same test would result in almost instant response from the engine in providing the available power for that engine speed. Now, that being said, does the lag bother me on my M4? No, not one iota. The test mentioned above does not apply to the response I need or expect in either my DD or use at the track. In Sport or Sport+, the engine reacts to perfection to throttle modulation while cornering. The power delivery is very linear and predictable. The anti-lag wizardry does work its magic and allows the engine to precisely respond to the inputs of my right foot in the conditions I need it to. (Note: while I enjoy Efficient mode for the DD, I find the throttle response sluggish and the power delivery unpredictable for track use is this mode). Despite my early apprehensions, I am perfectly happy with the throttle response of the S55. |
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12-02-2014, 10:57 PM | #78 |
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Amen, brother. Amen. All turbo cars have lag. The engineers are tasked with minimizing it. They have done a great job with the S55. Drive a diesel turbo, a supercharged engine, and a naturally aspirated engine and you will learn how to notice the lag. ("MDM" LOL) Those looking to auto writers for knowledge are sheep.
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12-03-2014, 02:38 AM | #79 |
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I've driven the f80 for a full day now and felt zero lag, in fact I feel like the s55 loves to rev and easily it does so. I tried to feel this lag that you all speak of but its just not there in my car. I don't get all this fussing
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12-03-2014, 03:06 AM | #80 |
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In an F80 @ 3000 rpm you snap the throttle open, you hear the "click" from the back of the pedal hitting the floor, and proceed to surge forward leaving you feeling sucked in your seat, not thrown in your seat.
Thats throttle response and a turbo car will never duplicate a ITB NA "feel".
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12-03-2014, 03:15 PM | #81 |
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I think we all need to drive NA Direct Inject Individual Throttle Body 7.0L V8s with Cylinder Deactivation that can average 35 MPG. And they should rev to 9K while producing a minimum of 400 Lb Ft of torque down low... I think I just made everyone happy.
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12-03-2014, 03:21 PM | #82 |
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That still won't work with CAFE restrictions that take hold in 2050...
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12-03-2014, 03:23 PM | #83 |
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Obviously turbos need to be spooled up before they can provide boost, so throttle modulation is key. If you are going at a steady state or stopped and then press the accelerator, there will be a delay...however brief...before the boost kicks in. In this car it is minimal and comparable to the GT-R. If you want to feel turbo lag, drive a 1977 930 turbo...or even a 997 turbo.
If you drive aggressively, keeping the turbos spooled, there will be no lag. That's why the the reviewers haven't had any lag...they are driving the cars harder than most of us do on the street. For me, I'd take the minimal lag over a NA engine with no torque. The reference to the Ferrari is inaccurate because that car weighs much less than an e92. You really feel the lack of torque when you're trying to move around 3700-4100 lbs. |
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12-03-2014, 03:44 PM | #84 |
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Nothing like the sound of a wastegate opening up I miss that.
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12-03-2014, 07:45 PM | #85 | |
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12-03-2014, 07:54 PM | #86 |
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12-04-2014, 01:18 AM | #87 | |
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It could be a manual thing, but if I feel any lag, it's because I'm fucking it up. If I leave the lights on second, sure, it takes a bit to get it going. if I press it down on the fourth going on 10 miles an hour, yes, it sleeps.
I don't know what kind of cars you guys have driven all your lives, but I tend to find the fault from my actions. With mine, I'm usually a gear too low, but that's just rally pushing from the roots. Now, E92 guys, tell me the car is a rocket if not driven right. Just saying as usual...
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12-04-2014, 06:31 AM | #88 |
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Driving this morning...yep the lag is still there. Punch it at 2k, 3k, 4k, 5k, 6k...yep the turbos still have to spool. Upshifting at redline? Of course there is no lag. Even my NSX with big old-school turbo tech, a BOV instead of recirc, and twice-longer charge piping has instant response on full throttle rev limit upshifts. Same displacement.
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