Buying "demo" cars? Mine turned out to be an M driving school car and keeps breaking

[MyNameIsNotSure]

Extremely frustrated here and wanted to share my story to bring awareness to the issue as well as get some advice. Especially since there's at least a few others of these demo cars on dealer lots in SoCal right now.

I bought a sweet Yas Marina Blue 2018 ZCP DCT M3 from a BMW dealer in SoCal last week. It had 11k miles, looked to be in decent shape, still under factory warranty (but strangely not CPO). I was told it was an "exec demo" and was leased to a BMW exec but also "sometimes tracked for demo purposes", vague statements that I didn't really think much of at the time.

Until it broke down with limp mode THREE times in the 7 days I've owned it.

I started researching this "demo" thing yesterday and found this thread and it turns out that oftentimes these demo cars end up being former M driving school cars, i.e. they get ridiculously abused at the track all day by random newbie track drivers throughout their lifetime there. The latter half of that thread is full of people saying it's a bad idea to buy one of these and some unfortunate anecdotes.

Coincidentally yesterday I also folded down the rear seats for the first time and out fell a vital clue....



Can't make this shit up.

Is there an updated consensus on these M school cars? That thread above is 2yrs old, I'm curious to know how these cars have held up for the people that bought them to see if mine is worth keeping.

On to my break downs. First one happened on the drive home from the dealer in LA (I live 2hrs away from LA), felt a misfire during a hard 2nd gear pull, restarted the car and it went away but eventually reoccured and got limp mode the whole way home (dealer was closed at this point). Took it to my local BMW dealer for service the next day where they replaced coil #1 and said it was fine. Later that very same day I get a 2nd misfire, and another limp mode. Back to the dealer the next day where they replace spark plug #6 saying that the porcelain had cracked in the plug and was rattling around.

Had a whole couple days of no misfires but could still feel some weird vibrations/shuddering going up to redline especially in 3rd gear, almost like the car was struggling a bit and running rough (still pulled well though). Can even feel these vibrations through the steering wheel going up to redline (RPM-dependent, not speed dependent), this symptom was present from day 1 and the service rep said it was normal behavior after both visits there for the other misfires. Tonight I got the 3rd misfire, and another limp mode so I'm now without a car for this 3 day Labor Day weekend. In addition I now notice a bunch of rattles in the cabin, various trim pieces being loose/undone, and highway wind noise coming from the border of the windshield-roof as if a sunroof was tipped open (but it's a CF roof).

At this point I'm wondering what to do? The thread I mentioned is 2yrs old, I'm curious to hear how the M school cars have been doing now that there's some more time passed. If you have one let me know if it's been solid or if you've had issues. Is my car worth keeping or should I try to sell it or what? I'd lose like $5k in taxes

Also if anyone is familiar with California law, do I have any kind of option to return the car to the dealer? It's only been 7 days. Could I just stop making payments on it and take this up with BMW NA? I feel I was misled when buying the car. If I knew it was an M school car I would not have bought it. It was priced at the average market price too, you'd think these M school cars would at least be sold at a serious discount. Dealer wouldn't budge on price though, apparently demand is high.

[RoundelM3]

Take it back to the dealership where you bought it and ask them to go through it front-to-back and fix everything that shows up on the computer scan and test driving. If they won't do that, then ask to return the vehicle for full refund, including taxes. If they refuse, call BMW NA and explain the situation. If you didn't have to sign any kind of release relating to its previous use, they should be required to fix it, refund your purchase money, or give you a trade-in allowance equal to your purchase price for another vehicle. You may also have recourse under the California "lemon law" for multiple repairs for the same problem.

[ChuMpion3]

Originally Posted by RoundelM3

Take it back to the dealership where you bought it and ask them to go through it front-to-back and fix everything that shows up on the computer scan and test driving. If they won't do that, then ask to return the vehicle for full refund, including taxes. If they refuse, call BMW NA and explain the situation. If you didn't have to sign any kind of release relating to its previous use, they should be required to fix it, refund your purchase money, or give you a trade-in allowance equal to your purchase price for another vehicle. You may also have recourse under the California "lemon law" for multiple repairs for the same problem.

Agreed. If the dealer lied to you about previous use in order to get the sale they need to live with that mistake. If they say it’s your problem or “buyer beware” talk to BMWNA. BMW dealers shouldn’t act like used car lots. Transparency and honesty is expected from them/the brand.

[DocL]

You are lucky you live in California and bought the car with an active warranty from a aBMW dealer. The car may qualify for the used car Lemon Law.

[six75LT]

after doing an M track day i would feel very bad for anyone who actually buys these cars. definitely make an argument here.. there is nothing "executive" about used track beaters.

[stein_325i]

OP that is terrible what you are experiencing, I would try as hard as possible to get this car returned to the original dealer. Also you mentioned you are without a car for the labor day weekend, did the dealer not supply you with a loaner? For a new customer, nonetheless one that is experiencing constant issues and forced to go back and forth to the dealership its a bit inexcusable to not give you a loaner vehicle. Wish you the best of luck in resolving this issue.

[ptper]

Maybe use the threat of sharing the dealership and name on the forums to help with the process. We're a pretty active bunch when it comes to adjudicating wronged forum members (search for scam sales).

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

holy shit. an driving school car should be sold at a heavy discount.

[TheBreeze]

The telltale sign of an M Driving School car is that they are first registered in Woodlake, NJ.

It's not at all uncommon for dealerships to not certify M cars for the CPO program. My local dealer in Durham NC does not, and neither did Fields BMW in Chicago where I bought my low mileage 2016. Both dealerships implied that it's BMW NA policy. That said, they were more than happy to sell me very expensive BMW extended warranties lol. (I opted out btw, very comfortable maintaining/fixing BMWs on my own.)

You didn't by chance buy it from BMW of San Luis Obispo did you? If so, I'm very sorry for you. Those guys are bonafide "crooks", they are the poster child of why dealerships get such a bad wrap. I would not put it past them at all to whitewash a car with a shady history and misrepresent it to some poor unsuspecting buyer as "mint, driven by grandpa only on sunny Sundays".

[bmwmdistrict]

Originally Posted by TheBreeze

The telltale sign of an M Driving School car is that they are first registered in Woodlake, NJ.

It's not at all uncommon for dealerships to not certify M cars for the CPO program. My local dealer in Durham NC does not, and neither did Fields BMW in Chicago where I bought my low mileage 2016. Both dealerships implied that it's BMW NA policy. That said, they were more than happy to sell me very expensive BMW extended warranties lol. (I opted out btw, very comfortable maintaining/fixing BMWs on my own.)

You didn't by chance buy it from BMW of San Luis Obispo did you? If so, I'm very sorry for you. Those guys are bonafide "crooks", they are the poster child of why dealerships get such a bad wrap. I would not put it past them at all to whitewash a car with a shady history and misrepresent it to some poor unsuspecting buyer as "mint, driven by grandpa only on sunny Sundays".

Good to know about Woodlake registration.

I was able to buy my M4 as CPO. It wasn't cheap, but I needed the piece of mind.

[MyNameIsNotSure]

Originally Posted by TheBreeze

The telltale sign of an M Driving School car is that they are first registered in Woodlake, NJ.

It's not at all uncommon for dealerships to not certify M cars for the CPO program. My local dealer in Durham NC does not, and neither did Fields BMW in Chicago where I bought my low mileage 2016. Both dealerships implied that it's BMW NA policy. That said, they were more than happy to sell me very expensive BMW extended warranties lol. (I opted out btw, very comfortable maintaining/fixing BMWs on my own.)

You didn't by chance buy it from BMW of San Luis Obispo did you? If so, I'm very sorry for you. Those guys are bonafide "crooks", they are the poster child of why dealerships get such a bad wrap. I would not put it past them at all to whitewash a car with a shady history and misrepresent it to some poor unsuspecting buyer as "mint, driven by grandpa only on sunny Sundays".

I'm not sure how to check where it was first registered. It doesn't say on the CarFax printout they gave me. On the AutoCheck one it does say the car was most recently sold at a manufacturer auction in the "Eastern Region". But it seems to have every indication of an M school car, given there were at least 4 for sale in this area with the *exact* same specs/options/CCB's right down to the 10-11k mileage. And the M school pen between the seats lol. And no it was not BMW of San Luis Obispo.

[MyNameIsNotSure]

Originally Posted by RoundelM3

Take it back to the dealership where you bought it and ask them to go through it front-to-back and fix everything that shows up on the computer scan and test driving. If they won't do that, then ask to return the vehicle for full refund, including taxes. If they refuse, call BMW NA and explain the situation. If you didn't have to sign any kind of release relating to its previous use, they should be required to fix it, refund your purchase money, or give you a trade-in allowance equal to your purchase price for another vehicle. You may also have recourse under the California "lemon law" for multiple repairs for the same problem.

Originally Posted by DocL

You are lucky you live in California and bought the car with an active warranty from a aBMW dealer. The car may qualify for the used car Lemon Law.

I called them today and they said I'd have to speak to the dealership director who gets back Monday. I seem to remember signing something that said "demo car" but I don't have a copy of that page in the envelope they gave me with all the other signatures/copies so I'm not sure if I'm imagining that. Definitely never signed anything that said "M driving school" or "track car", I read through everything I sign closely.

Would the 3rd misfire breakdown qualify as a "reasonable" number of attempts to fix it to be called a lemon? I guess so far they've only attempted to fix it twice. I just hope they take it back without trying to go the lemon route. I'd prefer to not keep the car even if it gets fixed, I don't feel great knowing I essentially got a track beater car for full price.

Originally Posted by jstein55

OP that is terrible what you are experiencing, I would try as hard as possible to get this car returned to the original dealer. Also you mentioned you are without a car for the labor day weekend, did the dealer not supply you with a loaner? For a new customer, nonetheless one that is experiencing constant issues and forced to go back and forth to the dealership its a bit inexcusable to not give you a loaner vehicle. Wish you the best of luck in resolving this issue.

Thanks man, I got loaners the first two times but this 3rd one just happened last night and their service dept is closed for the weekend.

Originally Posted by ptper

Maybe use the threat of sharing the dealership and name on the forums to help with the process. We're a pretty active bunch when it comes to adjudicating wronged forum members (search for scam sales).

I 100% plan on doing this if they don't cooperate. Appreciate the support from everyone! Will keep you updated.

[redblaze]

I feel sorry for you. When I was in the market for M3/M4 I saw quite many that were pretty new, with low mileage and CCB but without CPO. And they were all registered in Woodlake, NJ initially, where BMWNA is.

I did test drive one but did not move forward. Later I learned from this forum they are very likely, basically 99% to be M driving school retired vehicles.

Some people said driving school would not impact the car and one should feel rest assured buying it used because M cars are supposed to be driven. But I think if you want peace of mind you should avoid it.

[nickl630]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNotSure

I called them today and they said I'd have to speak to the dealership director who gets back Monday. I seem to remember signing something that said "demo car" but I don't have a copy of that page in the envelope they gave me with all the other signatures/copies so I'm not sure if I'm imagining that. Definitely never signed anything that said "M driving school" or "track car", I read through everything I sign closely.

Would the 3rd misfire breakdown qualify as a "reasonable" number of attempts to fix it to be called a lemon? I guess so far they've only attempted to fix it twice. I just hope they take it back without trying to go the lemon route. I'd prefer to not keep the car even if it gets fixed, I don't feel great knowing I essentially got a track beater car for full price.



Thanks man, I got loaners the first two times but this 3rd one just happened last night and their service dept is closed for the weekend.



I 100% plan on doing this if they don't cooperate. Appreciate the support from everyone! Will keep you updated.

You're SOL then. If you signed a prior use that said it was a loaner/demo then they are under no obligation to take the car back... if the GM/UCM agrees to take the car back it would be a one-off decision to make you happy... but they are under no obligation to.

Lemon law also only applies to new vehicles so this wouldn't apply to you. (unless there's a CA specific law im unaware of)

[maddmatth]

Originally Posted by redblaze

I feel sorry for you. When I was in the market for M3/M4 I saw quite many that were pretty new, with low mileage and CCB but without CPO. And they were all registered in Woodlake, NJ initially, where BMWNA is.

I did test drive one but did not move forward. Later I learned from this forum they are very likely, basically 99% to be M driving school retired vehicles.

Some people said driving school would not impact the car and one should feel rest assured buying it used because M cars are supposed to be driven. But I think if you want peace of mind you should avoid it.

I'm sure they'd be fine, if they were maintained appropriately for how they were driven...

But BMW, being the bean-counter dominated company it is, would have stuck to the standard service interval and only fixed things that broke...

Also they probably get thrashed from the start, no "running-in" period, likely driven hard before being up to temp... things a regular owner would have more regard for even if they tracked their car.

[Keca10]

This was 10 years ago... but I bought a 2005 M3 ZCP in 2008 that was a BMW driving school car. I was the second owner and bought what looked like an immaculate example at 16k miles (someone else had it from 4500 miles to 16k). Spartanburg performance center had it before then.

I did not know at the time. I found a maintenance stamp in the manual from the center and a few other clues gave it away later. I called them and they confirmed.

It was a great car but ultimately had the following issues:
1) ~20k miles engine block mfg defect - bad Iron casting (unrelated to use). Started leaking / sweating coolant through a crack. BMW fixed goodwill out of warranty given obvious manufacturing error. (I later had an engine blow on a e60 and they weren’t as nice with the v10).
2) alignment never felt right. They used camber plates at BMW school to quickly make adjustments and removed before sale. Either they did or the previous owner. Car would always want to turn right under heavy acceleration.
3) 4th gear grined from time to time in SMG. Bmw could never fix or replicate. Eventually sold the car because this bugged me.
4) it had repainted and rusting areas by wheel wells and under the doors (at less than 5 years old). Dealer explained the heavy track use in the first 4000 miles basically sandblasted the bottom of the car. - probably the main issue I see with having such a car. They repainted it to look perfect when it left Spartanburg, but I started seeing rust bubbles.

They are designed to take the abuse that they get. And they are perfectly maintained at the center. So there are some pros.

Con is that you need to check for re-painting and watch for rust.

I also asked what it was used for in the first 4000 miles(forgot what the carfax said) and dealer said “exec demo”. Claiming that Probably BMW exec drove it around. This was false.

And I learned that social media was best way to get BMW to respond when normal escalation didn’t help. I had major E60 V10 issues (failed fuel injector hydrolocked the engine with fuel, bent two rods, damaged the cylinder walls, and almost started the car on fire - the heat damaging many rubber and plastic components), they refused to cover the cats (even tho it’s covered under warranty) because the engine took them out. BMW NA calls or the dealer escalation did nothing. Basically BMW NA calls and complaints go to the warranty and customer service and their scorecard conflicts with helping you out. I wrote a comment on Facebook when they announced the F10 M5 “I hope you fixed the part where the engine grenades itself while almost starting the car on fire”. Something like that. Comment was deleted. Then I got a call from their “marketing executive office”. They asked me for my story, Investigated it (took weeks), then called me back two months later saying “we should have taken care of this the first time you called. We are sorry” And they sent a check covering exhaust portion of the repair - which was my ask. Ext warranty wouldn’t cover it because BMW was supposed to. Remaining $50k+ of repairs was covered by an extended warranty which after this incident seemed to have doubled or tripled prices on all M cars. I covered this story as it was developing on the M3forum (now dead).

[guess2098]

I know there are many 2018 m3 with same interior trim and ccb from 8k to 12k on 2 dealers offers from 65k to 62k. Was going to buy one of them but see all the extremely wear of seats let me believe those are from m school.

Please keep us updated for future reference.

[DocL]

Originally Posted by nickl630

...Lemon law also only applies to new vehicles so this wouldn't apply to you. (unless there's a CA specific law im unaware of)

In most states there is no Lemon Law, however I looked it up in California and there is one applicable if a car was bought through a dealer with a factory warranty. California and their wacky laws.

[Laostuh]

AFAIK there is no "cooling off period" in California. So you probably wouldn't be able to just "return" the car. They probably made you sign a "Contract Cancellation Agreement" where you would have the purchase the OPTION to return the vehicle within 48hrs. Almost 100% of our clients Decline this option.

If they did not make you sign any such paper like that I think you may have a case as this happened to me, I'm a finance manager at a dealership and forgot to have customer sign that paper, and they were able to return the car few days later.

Maybe speak to a paralegal?

[robrwalker]

No cooling off period in CA and even if there was you would have been past it. (Usually 1-3 days)

Signing the doc that says you know it is a demo car will probably torpedo your chances of BMW NA helping.

Only chance you have is dealer deciding to take it back. That's going to be hard.

Your defects don't qualify for lemon law yet. They have to be unable to fix the same issue over and over before lemon law kicks in.

Hoping for the best for you.

[henrylee]

I drove the sh*t out of the demo M3 at my dealership. I would assume everyone else drove like that. I would never buy that car.

[NoSuchSol]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNotSure

Would the 3rd misfire breakdown qualify as a "reasonable" number of attempts to fix it to be called a lemon? I guess so far they've only attempted to fix it twice. I just hope they take it back without trying to go the lemon route. I'd prefer to not keep the car even if it gets fixed, I don't feel great knowing I essentially got a track beater car for full price.

I'm not completely sure how it relates to a used car vs a new car, but if you have under 18k miles then it depends on the severity of the issue. You have a shot @ 2 visits if it's a drive and die problem, or if they try to repair the same warranty item 4 times and it doesn't fix it.

In my car, the Focus RS was in the shop for ~60 days in 7 months of ownership. The issues with the car were all over the place so the dealership recommended that I do a buyback.