Autocar Compares F82 M4 vs C63 507 Edition

[YungDro]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

I thought you were more even-keeled than that my friend. "Destroys" is a strong word.

its a very strong 'truthful' word

[Lups]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Don't worry, you can't go wrong with either choice.

Color is the only thing I can't decide. I've done Estoril and Le Mans blue in the past. Yas Marina is too Papa Smurf for me. Silverstone w/ Sakhir is the safe bet. Although I really like the cloth/leather combination as well.

The SO could be for you, maybe even hornet, but stay away from the black.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by YungDro

its a very strong 'truthful' word

Haha I don't know. Everyone was pretty happy with Steve's review here: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=983857

But now all of a sudden he's a C63 fanboy. The F80/F82 are both great but give the C63 its due when it comes to the motor, the massive brakes, and the old-school hydraulic steering setup.

Originally Posted by Lups

The SO could be for you, maybe even hornet, but stay away from the black.

Haha I definitely prefer the "hornet" (aptly named) over YMB. Sakhir interior looks incredible in photos but I'd need to see a Sakhir exterior "live."

[accce]

Originally Posted by Rated R

If the Black Series had a DCT I'd seriously consider it. That old gearbox kills it for me.

+1

[Lups]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Haha I definitely prefer the "hornet" (aptly named) over YMB. Sakhir interior looks incredible in photos but I'd need to see a Sakhir exterior "live."

Nah, go hornet, at least that way you know who to blame every time you feel stung by looking at your car and wonder what the hell happened to your life that this became a sane option. If you need, I can give you a list of ready made excuses, that won't help at all, but they will make the pain lessen. The other method is an easy and known well in the north, and it is often contained in a bottle. If you would need my excuses, you probably would find the later as a good option too, since even I can't make any sense from this paragraph.

Coffee.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by trinim3

Yes you're definitely in the minority in regards to the sound of the AMG

I'm really curious why so many folks on here are so eager to defend BMW? My thinking (and I suspect a few auto journalists like Sutcliffe's thinking) is that the less enthusiam we show and the less we settle for the changes BMW is imposing on us, the more likely BMW will build a better car (competition version can't come soon enough). Today more so than ever consumers can shape the direction of a brand.

And let's not use regulations and emissions as a scapegoat because every other OEM has to play by the same rules and in fact the true measure is how OEMs adapt to the new rules while still keeping its core DNA.

Nobody is saying BMW didn't build a great car, what some are questioning is did they build the best car they could build? Still inconclusive of course.

I think you make several great points.

I think some (some, not all) choose to vociferously defend a certain brand or car is because they want to validate their individual purchase/investment (both from monetary and time/effort perspectives). If they can do that publicly, even better (more satisfying).

I never like to think that one car or model is categorically or universally better than another. I'll advocate for or defend any car that I either respect or personally enjoy, irrespective of brand.

If a particular car is not someone's cup of tea, that is perfectly fine. It's just a shame when someone has to put the rival car down to justify his (or her) selection. Think how absurd that really is - the mentality that "only the car I'm choosing is a good car." Now, the idea that "the car I'm choosing is right for me" seems much more rational.

So long as you enjoy the car you've selected, that's all that matters. You've won. How the car stacks up in comparison tests is fun for internet debates but "which car won what review or competition" will never be my determinative factor.

Originally Posted by Lups

Nah, go hornet, at least that way you know who to blame every time you feel stung by looking at your car and wonder what the hell happened to your life that this became a sane option. If you need, I can give you a list of ready made excuses, that won't help at all, but they will make the pain lessen. The other method is an easy and known well in the north, and it is often contained in a bottle. If you would need my excuses, you probably would find the later as a good option too, since even I can't make any sense from this paragraph.

Coffee.

You deserve a coffee break and a tip of the hat after figuring out a way to incorporate the word stung in your post about the "hornet" color option. As always, well done.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

You deserve a coffee break and a tip of the hat after figuring out a way to incorporate the word stung in your post about the "hornet" color option. As always, well done.

Wow, I can't believe only a break is offered after that. Just kick me out already, the list of idiotic (and in that case totally wrongly worded, how can something not help, if the pain lessens? I suck) comments, that have no end ruins just about every thread already. You would do others a great favor, and trust me, I could do with a little less time with a computer, even if I'm outside almost 12 hours a day. I wouldn't even miss this forum for long, since I finally have started skating again, so time would be spent wisely! Save the people, be a hero.

[GT3Brother]

Yeah ill never buy a mercedes.

[kgroschi]

Definitely agree with Sutcliff. Finally a reviewer has the balls to say something. I mean you must be mad to say that the TTi6 sounds better or has a better throttle response than a N/A V8. There is just no way. Don't get me wrong, BMW M makes the best turbo charged cars out there hands down, I mean the throttle response in an M5 feels N/A compared to a sluggish 63AMG, but it's just not at the N/A level.
And I loved that he said the M3/M4 feels "dull", because that's exactly how it seems to be. Can't wait to try it out for myself, but I'm sure I won't be blown away by the M3/M4 by any means. And I am a BMW LOVER from Munich... can you imagine. Lol.

[redpriest]

I actually find the Mercedes COMAND system more intuitive to use than i-Drive, I guess it depends on what you're used to. I have to deal with so many options/sub-menus in iDrive it's sort of crazy. I've also never had a bad experience at the dealer; and I've always been pampered while there. I guess your mileage may very - I've heard just as many horror stories about BMW dealerships, so it really boils down to where you go.

I love my Mercedes cars as much as I love my new BMW, but it attacks very different things for me in what I look for in a car.

[kgroschi]

Originally Posted by chiplee

I agree that it's questionable whether driving experience/excitement is a primary factor for you. I'm probably BMW's target audience for this new M3/4. I think much of the BMW line up is now targeted at average consumers vice purists, and that's me, an average consumer. I've always lusted after an M3 but never owned one; never even driven one. I'm buying mine without a test drive. I've been a turbo enthusiast my whole driving life and I don't mind muted exhaust notes. In fact I love them. What matters to me when I spend money is to get the most bang for the buck; the best of all possible worlds. That is torque on tap from an engine that won't penalize me with 15mpg every time I move the car. I want comfort, versatility, dare I say "practicality" if such a thing exists in the $60k+ realm. I just don't know who is doing that better this year than BMW. Those are all my important factors though and yes, "different strokes", "to each his/her own", etc.

You are seriously killing me.... people like you (don't take any personal offense please) are killing the M fans.

[kgroschi]

Originally Posted by dondula

I think I am a pretty good person to comment on this being I have owned both a 2013 M3 and a 2013 C63..

I had a 2013 M3 and totaled it. I know it doesn't look that bad from the pics, but the frame of the car was not straight and once that happens on a race car, it will never drive correct again. They set it on a laser jig and measured exactly. I was so upset being it only had a couple thousand miles on it.. just ended it's break in period and I had a little too much fun late at night. road was clear and it was late, no one in sight.. tried my hand at drifting around a round about and forgot traction was off as I had it in launch mode prior.. spun out through a couple light poles in the round about at around 2AM.

anyways, all the dealers were playing games and being they stopped production on the 2013 M3, no one would trade and everyone wanted above sticker from the couple that were left out there..

So I went with a Mercedes c63 coupe to hold me over as this was the closest thing to replace the M with performance wise..

First, let me start with saying that I was a Mercedes fan before I ordered this car. Having read and watched mostly all positive reviews, plus Jeremy Clarkson calling this car an "axe murderer with headlights" I was sold and ordered the car blind.

Mercedes service is terrible. There are rude and snotty people at every luxury car dealer, but the main point is, everything is À la carte with Mercedes. Comes with nothing. Not like bmw that covers oil brakes etc.. Mercedes charges you top dollar and gives you nothing. They are more money in every respect compared to a BMW.. More to insure, More $$ for registration by over 100 bucks.

For a quick example, after 1500 miles, Mercedes said it needed oil. took it to the dealer and they said its normal for these AMG engines to burn oil. I am not driving it hard enough to melt the seals the service guy said. Now if I drove the car any harder, I would kill myself... They charged me 100 bucks to top it off with oil and sent me on my way. You would think that would have been covered, But it wasn't. Oh yes, I put up a fight and got no where...

Not to mention, the failure Mercedes made to fix a couple other problems the car was having. Just bad service all the way around. I was told by a Mercedes salesmen that in Germany, Mercedes head is so big, they don't care what anyone else is doing with their cars because they think they are the best.

The Best? Well, I don't think so. The interior of the C63 in my opinion is very plain and dated.. Almost cheap feeling. No nice finishings or extra details aside from AMG badging in the seats. illuminated AMG door sills I paid a lot for.. The only thing and I mean the ONLY thing this car has going for it is the hand built engine. That I will say is good quality and sounds nice. It is not a 6.3 even tho they mark it as one.. false advertising I say as the engine is a 6.2L.

The c63 is amazing and fast in a straight line.. But so is a mustang 5.0 for a little more than quarter the price.

I was so disappointed from the day I drove off the lot with the c63..
The thing is, BMW gives you so much bang for your buck. Their attention to details far exceeds Mercedes. I am not speaking for all car models, I am simply comparing c63 to M3.

Mercedes c63 has a very uncomfortable ride for a daily driving car compared to the M3. I read that the c63 was better for daily driving and boy were they wrong.

You would think that Mercedes would even give you a rear slip diff standard and they don't.. they want to charge you for every single little thing.. The M3 2013 comes with carbon fiber trim.. Mercedes wants $2800 for carbon. My car came with UGLY wood trim that I had painted custom to black within a week of having the car. Mercedes lease turn in fee is $595 vs BMW's $350..

Not to mention, when Mercedes gets you in a lease, boy do they want to keep you there.. I have broken several leases in my day. This is the first time I have ever leased a car and the starting payoff of the car was not on the discounted price. They calculate the monthly payments based on the discounted price, BUT the payoff on the car the day you sign is for the full MSRP. There for it is next to impossible to get out of the car.

The handling of the C63 is not so great compared to a M3. Very heavy in the rear for the c63..

The trans is HORRIBLE in the C63... Mercedes calls is a "Multi Clutch" Gear box to once again, fool people. It is NOT a dual clutch. The c63 Multi clutch just means you have a wet startup clutch, that's it. There are no two clutches working together. The car is incredibly delayed on shifting and never listens. I kept thinking to myself "how can Mercedes still produce a car like this for this kind of price when everyone else has already switched to newer technology?" BECAUSE THEY CAN!

Lots of plastic on the interior, not much tech, Mercedes kept it very simple with this car. I read so many reviews and comments on forums of how much people love the c63. These people must have never personally owned a BMW because if they did, I feel they would never look back.

So I broke the lease, took a HUGE hit all so I can get into an M4 that is currently at port waiting to be shipped. I don't think I have ever been so unhappy with a performance car. I have had a few and this by far was my least favorite.

So when I watch this review above even though it was a 507 package c63 which only unlocks the engine, different shifter fabric, steering wheel fabric and a vented hood that is just for looks, this guy must be smoking crack to think it's better. with all the toys the M4 has... The c63 is only good for it's engine, has nothing else to offer. Any BMW M is such a well balanced car and not only drives around a track faster, but is quick in a straight line and performs everything very well, The M is the complete package. Who cares about straight line performance?

I would rather have a car that does everything really well, instead of one thing just great.

Really sorry to offend any benz fans out there. I truly think benz pays off many reviewers to bolster the review of their cars.. They are powerful enough to do so and wouldn't be surprised if they did.

Call me crazy, but I feel the M3 I had was the most well rounded car I have ever had.

I have had 2 C63 AMG test cars, both felt crap compared to the M3. People call me crazy when I show my hate for AMG but it's just true, they are sluggish, and not performance oriented at all. The only good AMG I drove was a pre-production SLS I had for about 10 days. It felt really nice (except for the terrible gear box of course), and it would be the only AMG I'd consider buying.

It's sad, cause their 6.2 liter V8 is a masterpiece. They just totally ruined that package with that terrible, terrible tranny.

Now they might soon have a better 7 speed DCT but Turbocharged 5.5 liter V8s... so the good days are probably over anyways.

[F30form]

Who here has actually driven this car? I can't believe how many people are making judgements about how exciting this car is etc without driving it.

[Alex_bm]

I had very similar experience to yours. However for me it was going from C63 to M3. They were actually being sold at significant discount last summer.
Night and day difference.
I still miss that engine sound, but that's the only thing really.

Originally Posted by dondula

I think I am a pretty good person to comment on this being I have owned both a 2013 M3 and a 2013 C63..

I had a 2013 M3 and totaled it. I know it doesn't look that bad from the pics, but the frame of the car was not straight and once that happens on a race car, it will never drive correct again. They set it on a laser jig and measured exactly. I was so upset being it only had a couple thousand miles on it.. just ended it's break in period and I had a little too much fun late at night. road was clear and it was late, no one in sight.. tried my hand at drifting around a round about and forgot traction was off as I had it in launch mode prior.. spun out through a couple light poles in the round about at around 2AM.

anyways, all the dealers were playing games and being they stopped production on the 2013 M3, no one would trade and everyone wanted above sticker from the couple that were left out there..




So I went with a Mercedes c63 coupe to hold me over as this was the closest thing to replace the M with performance wise..



First, let me start with saying that I was a Mercedes fan before I ordered this car. Having read and watched mostly all positive reviews, plus Jeremy Clarkson calling this car an "axe murderer with headlights" I was sold and ordered the car blind.

Mercedes service is terrible. There are rude and snotty people at every luxury car dealer, but the main point is, everything is À la carte with Mercedes. Comes with nothing. Not like bmw that covers oil brakes etc.. Mercedes charges you top dollar and gives you nothing. They are more money in every respect compared to a BMW.. More to insure, More $$ for registration by over 100 bucks.

For a quick example, after 1500 miles, Mercedes said it needed oil. took it to the dealer and they said its normal for these AMG engines to burn oil. I am not driving it hard enough to melt the seals the service guy said. Now if I drove the car any harder, I would kill myself... They charged me 100 bucks to top it off with oil and sent me on my way. You would think that would have been covered, But it wasn't. Oh yes, I put up a fight and got no where...

Not to mention, the failure Mercedes made to fix a couple other problems the car was having. Just bad service all the way around. I was told by a Mercedes salesmen that in Germany, Mercedes head is so big, they don't care what anyone else is doing with their cars because they think they are the best.

The Best? Well, I don't think so. The interior of the C63 in my opinion is very plain and dated.. Almost cheap feeling. No nice finishings or extra details aside from AMG badging in the seats. illuminated AMG door sills I paid a lot for.. The only thing and I mean the ONLY thing this car has going for it is the hand built engine. That I will say is good quality and sounds nice. It is not a 6.3 even tho they mark it as one.. false advertising I say as the engine is a 6.2L.

The c63 is amazing and fast in a straight line.. But so is a mustang 5.0 for a little more than quarter the price.

I was so disappointed from the day I drove off the lot with the c63..
The thing is, BMW gives you so much bang for your buck. Their attention to details far exceeds Mercedes. I am not speaking for all car models, I am simply comparing c63 to M3.

Mercedes c63 has a very uncomfortable ride for a daily driving car compared to the M3. I read that the c63 was better for daily driving and boy were they wrong.

You would think that Mercedes would even give you a rear slip diff standard and they don't.. they want to charge you for every single little thing.. The M3 2013 comes with carbon fiber trim.. Mercedes wants $2800 for carbon. My car came with UGLY wood trim that I had painted custom to black within a week of having the car. Mercedes lease turn in fee is $595 vs BMW's $350..

Not to mention, when Mercedes gets you in a lease, boy do they want to keep you there.. I have broken several leases in my day. This is the first time I have ever leased a car and the starting payoff of the car was not on the discounted price. They calculate the monthly payments based on the discounted price, BUT the payoff on the car the day you sign is for the full MSRP. There for it is next to impossible to get out of the car.

The handling of the C63 is not so great compared to a M3. Very heavy in the rear for the c63..

The trans is HORRIBLE in the C63... Mercedes calls is a "Multi Clutch" Gear box to once again, fool people. It is NOT a dual clutch. The c63 Multi clutch just means you have a wet startup clutch, that's it. There are no two clutches working together. The car is incredibly delayed on shifting and never listens. I kept thinking to myself "how can Mercedes still produce a car like this for this kind of price when everyone else has already switched to newer technology?" BECAUSE THEY CAN!

Lots of plastic on the interior, not much tech, Mercedes kept it very simple with this car. I read so many reviews and comments on forums of how much people love the c63. These people must have never personally owned a BMW because if they did, I feel they would never look back.

So I broke the lease, took a HUGE hit all so I can get into an M4 that is currently at port waiting to be shipped. I don't think I have ever been so unhappy with a performance car. I have had a few and this by far was my least favorite.

So when I watch this review above even though it was a 507 package c63 which only unlocks the engine, different shifter fabric, steering wheel fabric and a vented hood that is just for looks, this guy must be smoking crack to think it's better. with all the toys the M4 has... The c63 is only good for it's engine, has nothing else to offer. Any BMW M is such a well balanced car and not only drives around a track faster, but is quick in a straight line and performs everything very well, The M is the complete package. Who cares about straight line performance?

I would rather have a car that does everything really well, instead of one thing just great.

Really sorry to offend any benz fans out there. I truly think benz pays off many reviewers to bolster the review of their cars.. They are powerful enough to do so and wouldn't be surprised if they did.

Call me crazy, but I feel the M3 I had was the most well rounded car I have ever had.

[chiplee]

Originally Posted by kgroschi

You are seriously killing me.... people like you (don't take any personal offense please) are killing the M fans.

To me the general notion of "being offended" is absurd, but thanks for your consideration. I will say that I doubt you have me figured quite correctly. I'm a fighter pilot, and probably slightly more typical of most M3 drivers than I let on. Thanks for you reply either way.

[Alex_bm]

Had mine with performance package that came with all the goodies.
The seats were super uncomfortable during longer commute.
Steering was very light even when pushing the car. The ride quality was definitely worse compared to an M3 with competition package driven in the city. And you could feel that extra weight pretty much in any driving situation other than cruising on a highway.
Overall the car did not feel as a complete package.

Originally Posted by Blipit_

Why did you pass on the Perf package on your C63? My buddies tracks his C63 with P31 package. LSD is a must. He also fitted some wider tires, the stock tire widths are a joke. Interior is outdated, but the seats are to die for. Flat bottom steering wheel is a nice touch.

I thoroughly enjoy driving the C63 on track/road. It is a completely different experience to my M3. Just a brutal machine and sounds fantastic. Only thing I don't like very much as you stated is the transmission. The MCT can not keep up with the DCT.

[kgroschi]

Originally Posted by chiplee

To me the general notion of "being offended" is absurd, but thanks for your consideration. I will say that I doubt you have me figured quite correctly. I'm a fighter pilot, and probably slightly more typical of most M3 drivers than I let on. Thanks for you reply either way.

Sick! My respect. Your last comment seemed not very fighter pilot like though haha. I fly planes too but only singles and twins and helicopters... Can I ask what you're flying? Even this is a BMW forum and not a Northrup Grumman Forum lol.

[6underpressure]

My friends has a c63 says the same things... Mostly about the interior and about the tec toys

[Mdecisive]

His review sounded like the m3 was always a step behind the c63. Granted the c63 was always quicker in a straight line but that's about where it stopped.. This is the first head to head review, so I'll just wait for more to give my proper thoughts, although he sounded very bias toward the c63..
The thing that bugs me, is every review I've seen so far, they complain about the engine straight away.. I however love a boosted engine and love my n55 engine, so it's no big deal for me..

[Killer-Bimmer]

Originally Posted by mrkhanna16

Weird.....he said the benz had better steering and the M had more torque.

Yup.... That confirms it the world is coming to an end....

[Sapper_M3]

Originally Posted by trinim3

Okay this I agree with. The 435i M Sport is too expensive lol. You might as well but the M4. Good call

You're exactly right.

The fact that this reasoning holds true though reflects the new status of ///M cars as just another trim line to the Series models. If you can afford it, the ///M car is now the car for everyone. It isn't the harder-edged, more track focused model that compromises on comfort and luxury to cater to a small group of enthusiasts.

In my ideal world, an ///M3 isn't a "better" car than a 335i. It's a different car for a different purpose. A 335i that costs as much as an ///M3 wouldn't convince someone to "step up" to an ///M3 because the ///M3 wouldn't be a step up. The highly spec'd 335i would be a sporty and comfortable luxury car that beats the ///M3 in these categories (comfort and luxury). On the flip side, the motorsports or performance enthusiast would have the option of compromising the luxury and comfort of a good 335i for the performance of the ///M3.

[car_fan]

Originally Posted by fndrsn

Just saw this on autocars site, the video hasn't been put on YouTube at the time I'm writing this but I'll embed it when it's uploaded.

So "Myrtle" trumps the new debutante? Interesting