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12-01-2013, 02:12 PM | #23 | |||
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12-01-2013, 02:23 PM | #24 |
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Yes, there is "to much info" and that is one of the problems with my post... When I realized that I made the "Summary" part of the post, but I still wanted to keep all the references etc. Perhaps a better layout like in the official threads would be more suitable? (not that I know how to do that though...) |
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12-01-2013, 02:29 PM | #25 | |
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As others have pointed out the new F8x MT6 transmission is 12kg lighter than it's predecessor. The DCT in the F8x is the DCI700 from Getrag which is rated at 79-82kg. The DCI600 in the E9x was 79kg I believe. So in the F8x I believe, based on the above, that the DCT version of the M3/M4 will be 32kg heavier than a MT6. And therefor possibly "only" 68kg lighter than a DCT E9x M3. Last edited by Boss330; 12-01-2013 at 03:30 PM.. |
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12-01-2013, 02:29 PM | #26 |
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12-01-2013, 06:44 PM | #27 | |
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Boss330: I suggest adding the Leergewicht DIN and Leergewicht EG terms. Again, I think it is far more important to understand what the OEMs are doing (in Europe and in NA) as compared to what various governmental/regulatory bodies are doing. In fact, I'll be so bold as to say no one really even cares about the latter. This could help clean up and shorten the OP.
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12-01-2013, 06:46 PM | #28 |
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Quoted curb weight for our US 335 GT: 4010
Actual, with full tank and no driver: 4060 First time i have ever weighed a BMW and had it come in above spec weight. Most have been 100 plus less than spec with a full tank. Methinks BMW marketing dept has gotten its hands on the weight specs recently. See for example, car and driver's weights for the supposedly lighter f30 328 which came in a significant amount heavier than an E90 they tested. There is plenty of weasel room in the regs to find 50lbs of paper weight reductions
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12-02-2013, 03:39 AM | #29 |
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Remark: the 75 kg for 'driver' in the EU weight specification is actually 68 kg for the driver, and 7 kg of luggage.
Just so you guys don't think that Europeans are fat |
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12-02-2013, 04:38 AM | #30 |
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Just use DIN (EU).. don't even have to know what it stands for.. its a base car, manual, no options 75kg load, 90% fuel.
The only people who use anything else are people trying to 'fudge' figures - which unfortunately includes BMW NA as they refer to how the "curb" weight of the new M3/M4 will be X amount lighter.. |
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12-02-2013, 04:54 AM | #31 | |
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12-02-2013, 09:05 AM | #32 | |
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DIN weight and EU weight are not the same standard. DIN weight does not include the 75 kg for driver and cargo. EDIT: And after re-reading the initial (helpful) post, it looks like the "NEW" DIN weights now include a driver?? Either way, I'm pretty sure people still need to know what it stands for, especially when comparing to cars from a couple years ago, which would have been using the previously accepted DIN weight standard of no driver/cargo. |
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12-02-2013, 10:58 AM | #33 |
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In the last EU Directive, it's just stated that the weight of the driver is 75kg. It's not divided in 68+7kg anymore.
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12-02-2013, 11:31 AM | #35 | |
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12-02-2013, 11:42 AM | #36 |
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Kind of sad but almost true. I can see confusion/uncertainty/lack of standardization for options. Lots of options can weigh a lot. However, confusion for fluids, fuel, driver and cargo are more or less unacceptable and do typically amount to marketing BS...
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12-02-2013, 11:46 AM | #37 |
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The whole "DIN/ISO Kerb Weight/Leergewicht DIN:" and whether or not drive is included appears to be very ambiguous. Am I missing something in this section? I guess not much different than the contradiction between US legal definition and that used by many (most?) manufacturers. Ugh. I was hoping some more precision was possible.
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12-02-2013, 11:55 AM | #38 |
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very good info!
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12-02-2013, 12:11 PM | #39 |
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It seems to me that CURRENTLY we get reliable apples to apples comparison for the European cars by using one of the German/EU Leergewicht weights. It doesn't matter which one as long as it's the same. I.e you can compare Leergewicht EG or Leergewicht DIN and it will be apples to apples. Translation between them is easy, EG is 75kg more than DIN.
We can forget all the other metrics as Kerb weight, Curb weight, Unladen etc. since they just bring confusion and Curb weight especially is not consistently reported. A short description of Leergewicht EG and Leergewicht DIN and where to get these numbers should be sufficient as a sticky IMO. |
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12-02-2013, 12:22 PM | #40 |
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Your guess is a good as mine where this extra 40 lbs comes from. For the M3 we guessed DCT but that's not a factor here. With the Cayenne they add nothing for extra US options. Better just forget about US reported Curb weight and use the seemingly within and across brands consistent Leergewicht measures.
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12-02-2013, 12:26 PM | #41 | |
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12-02-2013, 12:37 PM | #42 |
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12-02-2013, 12:38 PM | #43 | |
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I'm not aware of confusion on fluids and fuel? Fluids should be at 100% both in the US and EU. Fuel is at 90% in EU and 100% in the US. Driver is 75kg in EU, according to latest definition (no extra for cargo). Unless a "dry weight" is reported, which I frankly haven't seen anywhere lately? The US curb weight seems to be inconsistently reported by manufacturers, but only with regards to including driver or not? As solstice commented, so far it seems EU/EG Curb weight (Leergewicht) and DIN Curb weight (Leergewicht) are the most reliable and comparable figures we have. Last edited by Boss330; 12-02-2013 at 12:44 PM.. |
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12-02-2013, 12:43 PM | #44 | |
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But it's just the same as the English word "curb weight" I guess... The official EU nomenclature is "mass of the vehicle in running order", which is a more accurate description I guess. Leergewicht is just the old German word to describe the weight of the vehicle without passengers and cargo. BTW. The Swedish word is "Tjänstevikt" meaning "Service weight". |
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